Para Dropping & Pay in GA
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Shire
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Beggars arnt choosers. If you don't have the hours then your'e not going to be the one deciding the pay. - There is always another pilot out there to replace you.
That said - you shouldn't work for free.
That said - you shouldn't work for free.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Shire
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and as for jobs in parachute ops -
I landed my first gig in a 206 with just over 200TT and no 182/206 exp.
200hours later I'm flying at a extremely successful DZ flying 20+hours a week (between two pilots!) and will be getting into a c208 soon
The trick is to start small, very small and then when you have more time move on to bigger and better. Bigger and faster.
I landed my first gig in a 206 with just over 200TT and no 182/206 exp.
200hours later I'm flying at a extremely successful DZ flying 20+hours a week (between two pilots!) and will be getting into a c208 soon
The trick is to start small, very small and then when you have more time move on to bigger and better. Bigger and faster.
I'm sorry but I have zero respect for anyone who works for free. There are jobs out there if your willing to go looking for work and not sell your soul just to stay east. Remember if you work for free then your next job with someone else who pays below the award won't seem as bad because "at least I'm getting paid something". It affects all of us because it becomes the norm.
I landed my first job with 210 hours with no 200 series time and a mecir and on my second job now.
I know this has all been said before but it REALLY annoys me! Rant over.
I landed my first job with 210 hours with no 200 series time and a mecir and on my second job now.
I know this has all been said before but it REALLY annoys me! Rant over.
210 hrs and a MECIR.
What is the point of a MECIR with that level of inexperience.
As a GA pilot, in average GA equipment, it is the most dangerous flying you will ever do.
An MECIR.... Waste of time and money at that stage of your career!
What is the point of a MECIR with that level of inexperience.
As a GA pilot, in average GA equipment, it is the most dangerous flying you will ever do.
An MECIR.... Waste of time and money at that stage of your career!
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Flattening the curve
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Para Dropping & Pay in GA
Without trying to open a big 'ol can of worms here, I can see both sides of the whole paid and unpaid drop pilot argument, and I can see the frustration of professional pilots needing to be paid. Say you were a PPL or low time CPL with the required mins for drop flying, you had a good job (to pay off the CPL etc). As a PPL or fresh CPL there are very limited opportunities to fly for free (although some apparently get lucky), and I'm sure we all agree that by the time you get to 200hrs you are over shelling out your hard earned cash for every flying hour.
If your only chance for free hours was unpaid, how many people do you honestly think would turn it down. I'm not siding with the dodgy operators who exploit and threaten unpaid pilots but, if it came down to only being able to afford a hand full of hrs per year for the next few years till the bills are paid OR lots of free unpaid hours on your weekends, I know what most people would choose.
Moving from the bigger city's isn't easy for everyone and people just have to make the best of what they have available at the time, and that may involve unpaid flying to enable them to get where they want to be. All of us here have a great passion to fly but unfortunately it's not much of a gentleman's game and you don't see many people standing aside from a gig just so they don't upset the apple cart.....
Just telling it how it is......
If your only chance for free hours was unpaid, how many people do you honestly think would turn it down. I'm not siding with the dodgy operators who exploit and threaten unpaid pilots but, if it came down to only being able to afford a hand full of hrs per year for the next few years till the bills are paid OR lots of free unpaid hours on your weekends, I know what most people would choose.
Moving from the bigger city's isn't easy for everyone and people just have to make the best of what they have available at the time, and that may involve unpaid flying to enable them to get where they want to be. All of us here have a great passion to fly but unfortunately it's not much of a gentleman's game and you don't see many people standing aside from a gig just so they don't upset the apple cart.....
Just telling it how it is......
Let's see....
Nagambie 208, meat bomb prematurely deployed, wrapped around the tail (removing it). Jumper died, pilot (miraculously) crawled up the back and got out with less than 1000' to go. Wife had bought him a safety chute recently.
Willowbank 206, 5 fatalities. EFATO. Pilot flew into tree and then dam. Pilot amongst deceased. Killed one of my mates (RIP, Irish).
Fletcher in NZ recently, multiple fatalities. Outside CofG limits. Pilot amongst deceased. No survivors.
Starting to get the picture?
The Willowbank pilot wasn't even properly into his twenties, wasn't getting paid, has no super, no insurance or death payouts and is DEAD. Fcuk that.
I speak from experience, as I was once one of those who flew for free to get experience, but all it did was teach me how to climb and sideslip and introduced that many bad habits and made me that rusty with all other aspects of flying that I decided I to do an instructor rating to straighten myself out.
Getting a MECiR early at least starts the number of renewals counting up, but recommend you at least do a NVFR as part of your CPL.
Closer to an instrument rating than VFR anyway and the school's just lining you up for more hours after your CPL if they haven't done it as part of.
Nagambie 208, meat bomb prematurely deployed, wrapped around the tail (removing it). Jumper died, pilot (miraculously) crawled up the back and got out with less than 1000' to go. Wife had bought him a safety chute recently.
Willowbank 206, 5 fatalities. EFATO. Pilot flew into tree and then dam. Pilot amongst deceased. Killed one of my mates (RIP, Irish).
Fletcher in NZ recently, multiple fatalities. Outside CofG limits. Pilot amongst deceased. No survivors.
Starting to get the picture?
The Willowbank pilot wasn't even properly into his twenties, wasn't getting paid, has no super, no insurance or death payouts and is DEAD. Fcuk that.
I speak from experience, as I was once one of those who flew for free to get experience, but all it did was teach me how to climb and sideslip and introduced that many bad habits and made me that rusty with all other aspects of flying that I decided I to do an instructor rating to straighten myself out.
Getting a MECiR early at least starts the number of renewals counting up, but recommend you at least do a NVFR as part of your CPL.
Closer to an instrument rating than VFR anyway and the school's just lining you up for more hours after your CPL if they haven't done it as part of.
I got my mecir so that when I do have the opportunity to upgrade I can, instead of having to go away and gain it and/or try and save for it on a ga wage. I don't find it a waste of money because I learnt some valuable skills and feel it made me a better rounded pilot. I suppose your against new cpls doing their atpls because their years away from flying an airliner?
Bottom line is there is paid work out there, I can't understand spending thousands to get a cpl then working for free. You have earned the right to be paid!
Bottom line is there is paid work out there, I can't understand spending thousands to get a cpl then working for free. You have earned the right to be paid!
And while there are pilots who keep working for nothing the drop zones will have a steady supply of free and nasties to keep screwing over every pilot who hasjust paid $30K+ to get a license to fly what is blatantly a commercial operation.
I went back to one drop zone I slutted at (remember whores get paid
) and thought, yeah, the flying was fun. Why not fly one for old times sake?
Halfway up remembered what a fcuked up piece of siht that thing was. Lucky the radio sorta worked, cause the TC didn't, the alt was set 2000' high to rip the tandems off....
Bring on AoCs. At least then there would be some control over the industry, cause at the moment, CASA couldn't give two sihts.
Rant out.
Actually, at least there are now drop tickets and some form of awareness about the dangers (well, maybe not on here), but there's still a long way to go.
I went back to one drop zone I slutted at (remember whores get paid
) and thought, yeah, the flying was fun. Why not fly one for old times sake?Halfway up remembered what a fcuked up piece of siht that thing was. Lucky the radio sorta worked, cause the TC didn't, the alt was set 2000' high to rip the tandems off....
Bring on AoCs. At least then there would be some control over the industry, cause at the moment, CASA couldn't give two sihts.
Rant out.
Actually, at least there are now drop tickets and some form of awareness about the dangers (well, maybe not on here), but there's still a long way to go.
Join Date: Oct 2012
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Really? I've known too many people who have got their first jobs in a company with chances for progression, done their share of single time, and then been screwed over when a twin spot opened up just because they didn't have the endorsement or rating, and the singles were too busy to get time off to do the training. Someone starting off who has the rating is in a much better position to move up into a twin job, and all the company needs to do is fill a single engine spot. I can think of worse things to "waste" money on!
It's the operators that don't pay anything that should be ashamed of themselves. It's so difficult to not be emotional about this when the only person who would give you a job expects you to turn up for months, refuel planes and then you might get the 'opportunity' to work for free getting 10hrs/week in overloaded death traps. I've seen and been apart of the good and bad of skydiving jobs, and if anything it is improving. The first person I worked/slaved for called it 'character building.' He deserves to have his aircraft burn to the ground with him in it.
For the record, the Nagambie incident was very sad, but all involved were very experienced and it was design error that caused the reserve to get caught. Also Baz's chute was made by a mate, and his wife made him wear it.
Good luck to all those searching for jobs, if I had my time again I would've gone up north a lot earlier than I did.
For the record, the Nagambie incident was very sad, but all involved were very experienced and it was design error that caused the reserve to get caught. Also Baz's chute was made by a mate, and his wife made him wear it.
Good luck to all those searching for jobs, if I had my time again I would've gone up north a lot earlier than I did.
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Greta
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Our drop zone hires in turbine aircraft from another operator and they also do our tandooms. Their pilots are paid for their flying, have a commercial ticket, and the aircraft are maintained accordingly. All our jumpers have been weighed ready to jump and these weights are recorded in the manifest's computer. each load is totalled for W&B. Never had a problem with being overweight for the turbines but it can be a problem with C182's ect.
This weighing of jumpers came about after the Willowbank accident.
Looking for a jump pilot position then stick with the bigger operators.
FH
This weighing of jumpers came about after the Willowbank accident.
Looking for a jump pilot position then stick with the bigger operators.
FH
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Para dropping - PPLs and safety
Regarding the professionalism and safety of PPLs doing paradropping, at my drop zone in the eight years I have been flying there an amassing a modest 1,600 hours (about 2,400 "sectors") we have seen a few incidents. All of them involved CPLs/ATPLs whereas the PPLs have a flawless safety record. Now this is only one drop zone but just to assume that PPLs are unsafe is an unprofessional viewpoint unless it is supported by statistics. In our case the facts strongly suggest that PPLs are the safest. Why that is is a separate debate
The Willowbank report made note of the fact there was no evidence of when the pilot last conducted any emergency training and that different prices were being charged for different heights. It essentially queried why this wasn't classed as a commercial op.
BLOOD OATH
At least under a commercial op, there are regular proficiency checks once a year. Do ALL of the drop zones do this, and if not, why not?
Sprog
Were your incidents CPL pilot induced or CPL pilot rectified?
BLOOD OATH
At least under a commercial op, there are regular proficiency checks once a year. Do ALL of the drop zones do this, and if not, why not?
Sprog
Were your incidents CPL pilot induced or CPL pilot rectified?
Join Date: Jul 2005
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We do checks every six months
All the incidents I mentioned were CPL induced.
As I said, this is only one drop zone so n=1 but before anyone starts to accuse PPLs of being unsafe jump pilots, let's see the statistics first. I may be wrong but will only stand happily corrected by facts not opinions
All the incidents I mentioned were CPL induced.
As I said, this is only one drop zone so n=1 but before anyone starts to accuse PPLs of being unsafe jump pilots, let's see the statistics first. I may be wrong but will only stand happily corrected by facts not opinions
Join Date: Sep 2009
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I used to work at a GA company based at MB. This company supplied pilots and aircraft for skydiving operations at Leongatha and Pukkapunyl. The pay for skydiving was $20 'flag fall' (to turn up) and $10 per flying hour (mid 1980's). Accomodation and meals supplied by the skydiving club/business. As well as supply pilots for skydiving, the company also did VFR and IFR chrter and airwork: the casual rates were $80 for 2 hr banner tow, $125 for VFR charter and $175 for IFR.
As a PPL, I also flew at Packenham for a club (no-business) on the C206 and later the BN2. They supplied $20 for petrol and meals/accomodation.
I very much enjoyed flying and working with the skydivers. I also learned a lot about wx assessment, general aircraft handling and engine management beyond what beyond what I would have gleened by straight and level flying. I never flew without a Slimpac (google VH RPZ Packenham). Thems' were good times...
I also acted at a gliding club as Tugmaster. Every week some one would ring me at home and ask to fly the tug. I always explained that the clunb policy was that tugpilots were active glider pilots and club memebers. If they were happy to join the club and learn to glide them we would be happy to use their skills as a power pilot to fly the tug.
Of the dozens that contacted me regarding flying the tug, NOT ONE person joined the club; they just wanted to build some hours and move on. Hour building in this way was something that didn't suit either me as Tugmaster or the club, so I suppose a mutually agreed position was reached. Anyway, we had plenty of club memebers who could fly the tug, so who cared? We didn't.
What did amaze me was the number of people who got nasty when I said that it was expected that tugpilots join the club. There were some who suggested that this was exploitation. Some said that they expected to be paid even though they held a PPL. One memorable kid who came out to BCS (in a new BMW with P plates) said that he would seek a "dispensation from the CAA" (as it was then) so he could fly the tug in defiance of what were club rules!
As a PPL, I also flew at Packenham for a club (no-business) on the C206 and later the BN2. They supplied $20 for petrol and meals/accomodation.
I very much enjoyed flying and working with the skydivers. I also learned a lot about wx assessment, general aircraft handling and engine management beyond what beyond what I would have gleened by straight and level flying. I never flew without a Slimpac (google VH RPZ Packenham). Thems' were good times...
I also acted at a gliding club as Tugmaster. Every week some one would ring me at home and ask to fly the tug. I always explained that the clunb policy was that tugpilots were active glider pilots and club memebers. If they were happy to join the club and learn to glide them we would be happy to use their skills as a power pilot to fly the tug.
Of the dozens that contacted me regarding flying the tug, NOT ONE person joined the club; they just wanted to build some hours and move on. Hour building in this way was something that didn't suit either me as Tugmaster or the club, so I suppose a mutually agreed position was reached. Anyway, we had plenty of club memebers who could fly the tug, so who cared? We didn't.
What did amaze me was the number of people who got nasty when I said that it was expected that tugpilots join the club. There were some who suggested that this was exploitation. Some said that they expected to be paid even though they held a PPL. One memorable kid who came out to BCS (in a new BMW with P plates) said that he would seek a "dispensation from the CAA" (as it was then) so he could fly the tug in defiance of what were club rules!
Last edited by Anthill; 4th Nov 2012 at 23:05.
Join Date: Apr 2006
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No AOC no pay
Simple no AOC no pay...
Since when can a private pilot get paid for flying.... or a commercial pilot get paid if they are not employed buy a company that holds an AOC...
Since when can a private pilot get paid for flying.... or a commercial pilot get paid if they are not employed buy a company that holds an AOC...