Merged: Pel Air vs RFDS for the Air Ambulance contract in Australia
How many other operators train you to safely land in a black hole on nothing but car headlights? Or just a single line of kerosene flares?
I was trained on a single line of kerosene flares back in the 70's - we were too lazy to put out two rows.
Dr
Lester,
I can't personally attest to the training every other operator provides. I have no problem admitting that.
I base my view that I posted, on my own personal experience and also the views of other colleagues with whom I work. The cross section of experience throughout the RFDS is immense, both with hours flown, years in the industry and the various backgrounds from which we all come. Major airlines (both locally and from overseas), GA, regional airlines, the corporate industry, the list goes on. Every RFDS pilot, both past and present, boasts about the level of checking and training through which we are put through, as being among the best they have ever experienced.
While I'm not at all saying that what other organisations have is inadequate or rubbish, if anyone asks me on what basis does RFDS have the "best training", rest assured I can safely say that RFDS is up there among the best when it comes to the training that we are put through, simply by what my 100 or so other colleagues Australia wide, as well as the many who have since moved on, say in comparison to many other places they've worked.
morno
I can't personally attest to the training every other operator provides. I have no problem admitting that.
I base my view that I posted, on my own personal experience and also the views of other colleagues with whom I work. The cross section of experience throughout the RFDS is immense, both with hours flown, years in the industry and the various backgrounds from which we all come. Major airlines (both locally and from overseas), GA, regional airlines, the corporate industry, the list goes on. Every RFDS pilot, both past and present, boasts about the level of checking and training through which we are put through, as being among the best they have ever experienced.
While I'm not at all saying that what other organisations have is inadequate or rubbish, if anyone asks me on what basis does RFDS have the "best training", rest assured I can safely say that RFDS is up there among the best when it comes to the training that we are put through, simply by what my 100 or so other colleagues Australia wide, as well as the many who have since moved on, say in comparison to many other places they've worked.
morno
That's because they have the money to do it. Most of the others do not.
Dr
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Since when has transporting a patient in a remote area ever been a 'commercial reality.' It is because it is usually NOT that the RFDS was even born in the first place. If I was on the receiving end I would want to know that I am being looked after like anyone under Australia's relatively high healthcare standards and not a commercial annoyance that has to be transported at the lowest cost in the most efficient manner so as to make the most profit for the owners/shareholders...
As for RFDS being good, do you really have to eat a bad apple to know what a good one tastes like? Do we really want to end up like the USA (again) where a multitude of entities fight tooth and nail over contracts which has proven to be at a cost to both the level of care and safety of the aeromedical operations?
As for RFDS being good, do you really have to eat a bad apple to know what a good one tastes like? Do we really want to end up like the USA (again) where a multitude of entities fight tooth and nail over contracts which has proven to be at a cost to both the level of care and safety of the aeromedical operations?
Since when has transporting a patient in a remote area ever been a 'commercial reality.'
Dr
You need bases in Cairns, Townsville, Rockhampton, Bundaberg, Brisbane, Charleville and Mt Isa
I have worked with several Government and NGO aeromedical providers....RFDS gets my vote
a state the size of Qld probably does need that many bases..... unless you would prefer to spend a few extra hours waiting in Upper Thargominda or Lower Leonora 
Bundaberg - Birdsville = 157 min
Rockhampton - Birdsville = 139 min
Townsville - Birdsville = 127 min
Cairns - Birdsville = 144 min
Kinda hard to see, isn't it!
Dr
Forky,
CV-BDV can be 2hrs alone if it's the middle of winter. That's 2hrs FLIGHT time. Let's add on the time it takes first of all to alert the crews, get to the aircraft, load the aircraft, plan, taxi, take off, cruise, approach, land. You're looking at more like 3hrs then. And that's just to the airport at the other end.
A long time if you're hanging upside down in a vehicle with a broken leg.
morno
CV-BDV can be 2hrs alone if it's the middle of winter. That's 2hrs FLIGHT time. Let's add on the time it takes first of all to alert the crews, get to the aircraft, load the aircraft, plan, taxi, take off, cruise, approach, land. You're looking at more like 3hrs then. And that's just to the airport at the other end.
A long time if you're hanging upside down in a vehicle with a broken leg.
morno
A long time if you're hanging upside down in a vehicle with a broken leg.
Listening to the Foxtrot Deltas flying around the place, however, I suspect that those spectacular emergency retrievals from the middle of nowhere are a relatively small part of RFDS business.
Much more of it these days seems to be the sort of job that FDW did last Thursday when sharing the sky with the FTDK:
Out of Charleville for a patient pickup at Longreach and delivery to Townsville.
Don't get me wrong, I think that RFDS do a great deal of admirable work, but, in my opinion, using their charity status to out-compete mainstream tax-paying GA is not one of them.
Dr
You are right to an extent Forky, overall it would be a small part. But in the more traditional bases (Charleville, Mount Isa, Cairns to a small extent), it's still a big part of what RFDS does.
In Aeromedical, you have to plan for the worst case scenario. You can't have minimal bases hoping that there's a spare aircraft from Brisbane or Rockhampton (rare, you'd know this by the amount of flying you hear them do) to attend Birdsville when something bad does happen out there.
I could spend ages trying to justify it, but eoc has summed it up better. Population density.
morno
In Aeromedical, you have to plan for the worst case scenario. You can't have minimal bases hoping that there's a spare aircraft from Brisbane or Rockhampton (rare, you'd know this by the amount of flying you hear them do) to attend Birdsville when something bad does happen out there.
I could spend ages trying to justify it, but eoc has summed it up better. Population density.
morno
Brisbane - Birdsville = 165 min
Bundaberg - Birdsville = 157 min
Rockhampton - Birdsville = 139 min
Townsville - Birdsville = 127 min
Cairns - Birdsville = 144 min
Kinda hard to see, isn't it!
Bundaberg - Birdsville = 157 min
Rockhampton - Birdsville = 139 min
Townsville - Birdsville = 127 min
Cairns - Birdsville = 144 min
Kinda hard to see, isn't it!
Don't get me wrong, I think that RFDS do a great deal of admirable work, but, in my opinion, using their charity status to out-compete mainstream tax-paying GA is not one of them.
j3
Brisbane - Birdsville today would take 3.9hrs, PLUS the fuel stop required in Charleville, . So 4.5hrs from take off in Brisbane minimum.
morno
. So 4.5hrs from take off in Brisbane minimum.morno
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So the question remains then, are you willing to pay more tax so that transport associated with the primary healthcare provided to regional Australia can be provided by a 'GA' operator?
As for paying more tax to fund it, how much was spent by the federal government on those disgraceful mining propaganda ads?
Kerry Packer said in the senate one day when being questioned over the amount of tax he paid:
"I don't think you do a well enough job of spending the tax I do pay, let alone giving you more" (or words to those effect)
'Morno' & friends you won't be able to convince the likes of the Dr so save ya breath:-)
Those of us that believe the RFDS do a great job will always have to ward off the likes of those who simply don't believe. The RFDS have been doing it for over 80 yrs & will continue to do so long after most of us here have gone.
I reckon there should be NO commercial operators supplying Aero Med services here in OZ but that's just how I see it.
Fist class Medical attention here in Oz for everyone every time would be Nye impossible to provide over the whole of the land but the RFDS does a damn good job in the face of commercial operators who's ONLY reason for supplying such a service is money.
If the RFDS has a commercial advantage over other operators to that I say bloody good! It's about service & that comes at a cost to all tax payers in this great land.
Wmk2, one of the few who truly believes
so save ya breath:-)Those of us that believe the RFDS do a great job will always have to ward off the likes of those who simply don't believe. The RFDS have been doing it for over 80 yrs & will continue to do so long after most of us here have gone.
I reckon there should be NO commercial operators supplying Aero Med services here in OZ but that's just how I see it.
Fist class Medical attention here in Oz for everyone every time would be Nye impossible to provide over the whole of the land but the RFDS does a damn good job in the face of commercial operators who's ONLY reason for supplying such a service is money.
If the RFDS has a commercial advantage over other operators to that I say bloody good! It's about service & that comes at a cost to all tax payers in this great land.
Wmk2, one of the few who truly believes
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Maybe RFDS should take a page from FTDKs book.... "nah, busy, can't get there today; look just put a bullet in its head and bury it in a paddock...."
Wonder how that approach would go down....
Be a bloody sight cheaper than paying for all those aircraft I spose.
Wonder how that approach would go down....
Be a bloody sight cheaper than paying for all those aircraft I spose.
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Without setting out to start a slanging match about training, and no disrespect to those at the RFDS, most loyal employees claim that their training has been the best you can get.
The flying you guys do would certainly be demanding, same as it is for the other providers of the same type of air services, Pearl in Darwin and Katherine etc.
My impression based on flying in airlines with ex RFDS pilots is that they certainly on average no better than the general standard coming from GA. Maybe the different regions have different standards, overtime I would think this would be evened out, however individual training pilot.s would certainly make a difference.
As for being a "non profit" organization, I'm not convinced the public aren't being hoodwinked. Is there a marked difference In the service provided by the NTAMs and RFDS, if so I certAinly haven't heard about it?
Seriously though, while my comments my look like their intended to denigrate the RFDS they're not. I respect the history and certainly the early history, I do wonder whether they should be able to claim tax free ( I think) and donations whilst competing with other operators. Bit like MAF I guess
The flying you guys do would certainly be demanding, same as it is for the other providers of the same type of air services, Pearl in Darwin and Katherine etc.
My impression based on flying in airlines with ex RFDS pilots is that they certainly on average no better than the general standard coming from GA. Maybe the different regions have different standards, overtime I would think this would be evened out, however individual training pilot.s would certainly make a difference.
As for being a "non profit" organization, I'm not convinced the public aren't being hoodwinked. Is there a marked difference In the service provided by the NTAMs and RFDS, if so I certAinly haven't heard about it?
Seriously though, while my comments my look like their intended to denigrate the RFDS they're not. I respect the history and certainly the early history, I do wonder whether they should be able to claim tax free ( I think) and donations whilst competing with other operators. Bit like MAF I guess
Maybe RFDS should take a page from FTDKs book.... "nah, busy, can't get there today; look just put a bullet in its head and bury it in a paddock...."
Dr