Merged: Pel Air vs RFDS for the Air Ambulance contract in Australia
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Conargo Pub
Age: 39
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Merged: Pel Air vs RFDS for the Air Ambulance contract in Australia
I have heard Pelair have undercut RFDS for the QLD section contract, although have not heard any official words about it so I thought I would come straight to the place of all wisdom in things aviation. PPRUNE
Can anyone tell me is there any truth to it?
Can anyone tell me is there any truth to it?
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Alice Springs
Posts: 1,744
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is very difficult for a company to undercut a "not for profit" or subsidised organisation that can quote low and make up the shortfall by asking for donations from the public.
It's not really a level playing field and is a clever means of getting cheap airmedical services for the government by getting Mr general public to subsidise it with donations.
It's not really a level playing field and is a clever means of getting cheap airmedical services for the government by getting Mr general public to subsidise it with donations.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: australia
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If this is true, Pel Air wont survive. RFDS supply a critical service to all of Australia, and do it with flying colours. Other operators are moving in to the air ambulance business, but you will find they are not there to compete with the RFDS. The likes of Pel Air, Careflight QLD, and now even CQ Rescue in Mackay will support RFDS and hopefully not take its work away.
Sprucegoose
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hughes Point, where life is great! Was also resident on page 13, but now I'm lost in Cyberspace....
Age: 59
Posts: 3,485
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
It is very difficult for a company to undercut a "not for profit" or subsidised organisation that can quote low and make up the shortfall by asking for donations from the public.
In fact quite the reverse, profits from any contracts the RFDS have, go to providing funds for their more 'traditional' rural services. Of course there are tax benefits to being a 'not for profit' organisation which may help reduce their overheads, however the RFDS are currently paying their pilots considerably more than any of their GA competitors!
Personally I don't see too many other GA companies with the facilities, or resources able to cover the State of Queensland, Pelair included!
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Sydney
Posts: 817
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Not for profit", doesn't actually mean that they don't, or can't, make a profit. and true, they RFDS do pay more than their GA counterparts, and spend more on training, and uniforms etc.
IF the RFDS had to compete against GA companies run by "for profit" accountants, and using the cost factor they now have.... they wouldn't survive a month...!!!!!!!!!! they are a beauracracy hiding behind a legend. HOWEVER, they do do sterling work, and have my respect. I wish that I had been able to have a stint with them.
IF the RFDS had to compete against GA companies run by "for profit" accountants, and using the cost factor they now have.... they wouldn't survive a month...!!!!!!!!!! they are a beauracracy hiding behind a legend. HOWEVER, they do do sterling work, and have my respect. I wish that I had been able to have a stint with them.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: australia
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You will find that Careflight QLD(RACQ) and Careflight NSW(NRMA) are two very separate companies that happen to have the same name.
CF NSW utilise Pel Air for jet coverage while CF QLD have there own jets and crew.
The companies looked at coming together many many years ago, thus the same name, but with different board members and business models, they went there own ways.
CF NSW utilise Pel Air for jet coverage while CF QLD have there own jets and crew.
The companies looked at coming together many many years ago, thus the same name, but with different board members and business models, they went there own ways.
Sprucegoose
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hughes Point, where life is great! Was also resident on page 13, but now I'm lost in Cyberspace....
Age: 59
Posts: 3,485
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
but with different board members and business models, they went there own ways.
Moderator
A "not for profit" entity is required to operate “profitably” in order to preserve it's solvency, in the same manner a commercial “for profit” entity generates profits.
A "not for profit" entity generates financial surpluses, whereas a “for profit” entity generates profits.
The difference is that a "not for profit" entity is not permitted to distribute it's surpluses to Members by way of dividends or other benefits, but must re-invest it's surpluses in the services it provides. A “not for profit” entity is not subject to company profits tax but is generally subject to all other taxes and duties, including GST, payroll tax etc. Certain ATO approved charities, generally in health or religious services, operating as "not for profit" entities (but not all) may enjoy FBT benefits which are generally passed to staff by way of a higher PAYG tax threshold.
Both “not for profit” and “for profit” entities generally managed their operations on similar business principals.
A "not for profit" entity generates financial surpluses, whereas a “for profit” entity generates profits.
The difference is that a "not for profit" entity is not permitted to distribute it's surpluses to Members by way of dividends or other benefits, but must re-invest it's surpluses in the services it provides. A “not for profit” entity is not subject to company profits tax but is generally subject to all other taxes and duties, including GST, payroll tax etc. Certain ATO approved charities, generally in health or religious services, operating as "not for profit" entities (but not all) may enjoy FBT benefits which are generally passed to staff by way of a higher PAYG tax threshold.
Both “not for profit” and “for profit” entities generally managed their operations on similar business principals.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Australia at the moment
Posts: 177
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RFDS QLD section do a lot of clinical work particularly in the Cape region.
They use operators outside the RFDS frame work ie contactors. GAM and Hinterland etc. They all have to pass quite strict RFDS audits.
The QLD goverment through Queensland health pay for this. it is a community service, provded for the communities.
Perhaps Pel Air have won this work????
They use operators outside the RFDS frame work ie contactors. GAM and Hinterland etc. They all have to pass quite strict RFDS audits.
The QLD goverment through Queensland health pay for this. it is a community service, provded for the communities.
Perhaps Pel Air have won this work????
Was chatting with an ex-Pelair driver the other day who told me PelAir have tendered for the NSW Air Ambulance contract against the RFDS, using B350s.
"Interesting".
"Interesting".
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Conargo Pub
Age: 39
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Did not want to start the same old 'profit, not for profit, non profit' debate. Although I do agree with most of what has been said here I was just wondering if Pel Air had actually won the contract, given that no one has any facts about it I guess it just has not happened.
Now Back to the OFF TOPIC THREAD.
Like I said I agree with what has been said so far but there is the example of Pearl (I will just duck and take cover now) but they won the contract for the Top End even though they were competing with RFDS, so I think that makes it possible elsewhere. Do not take it as gospel, but now that contract is up again, I believe Pearl, Pel Air and others are competing for the contract against the RFDS.
It takes time and money to put together a bid for a contract and no business would be investing both if they didn't think there was a dollar to be made.
Speaking of profit, I am going to run a book on who gets the the top end contract. ANY TAKERS $$$$$$$
ANYONE WANT TO SET THE ODDS?????????
DD
Now Back to the OFF TOPIC THREAD.
Like I said I agree with what has been said so far but there is the example of Pearl (I will just duck and take cover now) but they won the contract for the Top End even though they were competing with RFDS, so I think that makes it possible elsewhere. Do not take it as gospel, but now that contract is up again, I believe Pearl, Pel Air and others are competing for the contract against the RFDS.
It takes time and money to put together a bid for a contract and no business would be investing both if they didn't think there was a dollar to be made.
Speaking of profit, I am going to run a book on who gets the the top end contract. ANY TAKERS $$$$$$$
ANYONE WANT TO SET THE ODDS?????????
DD
Join Date: May 2002
Location: QLD
Age: 50
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The tender that went out in QLD was for 2000 extra hours on top of what is already distributed between RFDS, Careflight etc by QLD Health.
To date the tender has not been awarded to anyone (that I'm aware of) but there were quite strict conditions placed on aircraft type, loading capabilities and crew experience in aeromedical operation.
RFDS was only one of the companies that tendered for the extra hours and there is certainly no guanrantee they will get it, but 81 years of aeromedical infrasrtucture and experience in QLD, more than 15 aircraft, 50 pilots and 7 fixed bases throughout the state doesnt fall over overnight because of an extra 2000 hrs on top of the 20 odd thousand hours a year they already do.
To date the tender has not been awarded to anyone (that I'm aware of) but there were quite strict conditions placed on aircraft type, loading capabilities and crew experience in aeromedical operation.
RFDS was only one of the companies that tendered for the extra hours and there is certainly no guanrantee they will get it, but 81 years of aeromedical infrasrtucture and experience in QLD, more than 15 aircraft, 50 pilots and 7 fixed bases throughout the state doesnt fall over overnight because of an extra 2000 hrs on top of the 20 odd thousand hours a year they already do.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: in the classroom of life
Age: 55
Posts: 6,864
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
RFDS: Victorian Air Ambulance Contract
Now here is a shocker!
As of July 1st 2011 Pelair will be the new guys on the job.
Not good for all the RFDS folk.
One wonders how a really 1st class professional "not for profit" outfit can be undercut by a commercial group with way less experience and equipment for the job.
Any of you folk who know the ropes care to comment?
J
As of July 1st 2011 Pelair will be the new guys on the job.
Not good for all the RFDS folk.
One wonders how a really 1st class professional "not for profit" outfit can be undercut by a commercial group with way less experience and equipment for the job.
Any of you folk who know the ropes care to comment?
J
I was told by an ex-Pelair bloke that they were tendering for the NSW contract too.
I imagine the Pel Air Metro drivers made redundant were on much less money than the RFDS drivers - Rex management know how to screw 'em down
I am sure the Vic government know what they're doing - no, I can't see any issue with replacing very experienced specialised pilots with guys with much less experience. No issue there at all.
I imagine the Pel Air Metro drivers made redundant were on much less money than the RFDS drivers - Rex management know how to screw 'em down
I am sure the Vic government know what they're doing - no, I can't see any issue with replacing very experienced specialised pilots with guys with much less experience. No issue there at all.
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 542
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Changing of the guard hey, I guess it was only a matter of time it is a contract after all. Dissapointing for the rfds pilots with the conditions they have built up over time, this is how they get erroded all legal like!
In any case there is two years left and the pressure will be on the next operator to get their act together in time to start. Look forward to seeing who gets SY now, it should be announced very soon I think.
I would say there would be a clause dictating the minimum experience levels for the pilots to fly the line, hopefully everyone who wishes to keep their job does so.
In any case there is two years left and the pressure will be on the next operator to get their act together in time to start. Look forward to seeing who gets SY now, it should be announced very soon I think.
I would say there would be a clause dictating the minimum experience levels for the pilots to fly the line, hopefully everyone who wishes to keep their job does so.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Planet Plazbot
Posts: 1,003
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
no, I can't see any issue with replacing very experienced specialised pilots with guys with much less experience.
Unfortunately there is no column in a Ledger for 'Experience'
