Margin for 50 hourly/oil & filter change

[bluesky300]

Slightly off topic, I once saw a RCA from CASA that turned into a show cause. An eroplane had flown in excess of a 100 hrly inspection. The operator replied that the over-run was inconsequential and due to operational requirements of the flight in question.

It was then hit with a further RCA and show cause based on its failure to comprehend its obligations to safety and maintenance.

How far over 100 hrs had the aeroplane gone you may ask?

.02 of one hour. 1.2 minutes.

[blackhand]

Oil Change Archerfield

Plankbender
Contact Murray Bolton at Helico at Archerfield.

He will help out

Blackhand

[PlankBlender]

Cheers, blackhand, will contact him next time!

Here's the statement from my insurer:

i confirm that compliance with AD Eng 4 rather than the manufacturers requirements will not void the insurance cover.

This means there is no need for a filter inspection in an owner executed oil and filter change, and they cannot refuse liability if you have an engine failure after such maintenance.

[blackhand]

Plankbender

This means there is no need for a filter inspection in an owner executed oil and filter change, and they cannot refuse liability if you have an engine failure after such maintenance.

That's a valid viewpoint, but another view point is that this would be the least of your worries at 5000 Hp when the "fan, pilot cooling" stops.

Have a look in the filter, any "shiny" bits you see may indicate an impending failure.

[PlankBlender]

blackhand, I'm not saying I wouldn't, but I can't certify a filter inspection on the MR and as such it's useless for liability purposes, hence my question to the insurer.

[PercyWhino]

Remember to also Lockwire the filter again when you do him up. Sorry for stating the obvious but make sure you lockwire it so that the wire is "doing it up" if you will.

Another question.

If you have been shown by a LAME and "signed off" on sched 8 can you sign off the MR for that item. I.e. Can PlankBlender sign off the MR as 50hrly oil change completed?

[Socket]

If you have been shown by a LAME and "signed off" on sched 8 can you sign off the MR for that item. I.e. Can PlankBlender sign off the MR as 50hrly oil change completed?

Not only can he sign for it, but he MUST sign for it.

It is a legal requirement and nothing is surer to upset a LAME than to find out a pilot/owner has been carrying out maintenance on an aircraft with the LAME's signature on the MR and the pilot/owner made no entries or certifications for that maintenance.

If the oil filter or wheel or whatever falls off or fails and the last signature is the LAME's he is going to cop the fallout from CASA. I have refused to maintain certain owners aircraft because they insist on doing their own oil changes, tyre changes etc.... but do not enter it on the MR. Might cost me some business in the short term but protects my earning capacity in the long term.

Further the AD/ENG/4 may not be applicable at all as it states that only if you are maintaining it IAW CASA schedules. Again, check the LBS first.

That chinese fella,

AD/ENG/4 is ALWAYS applicable no mattar what system of maintenance you are on. AD's are always mandatory over and above sched 5 or the manufacturers system or your own CASA approved system. So it (ENG/4) is the minimum you have to do.

[Sunfish]

Plankbender, why not drain the oil filter, bag it and give it to your LAME to check later.

[bellsux]

Socket.

I think you are wrong as the first line in the AD clearly states that the AD is applicable to aircraft maintained under CAR 42B which is the CASA maintenance schedule. So as That Chinese Fella said it all comes back to the Log Book Statement and what system is applicable to that particular aircraft.

So if Plankbenders log book statement does not have IAW CAR42B he could possibly be in for a rude shock from CASA or his insurance company even though he does have that nice letter because not 'in compliance with AD/ENG/4' and if an adjuster or CASA picks this out it could be expensive.

So if you then want to change over to the CAR42B system all the other requirements must be carried out as listed in the AD. So I would think that having Manufactures or Lycoming in the LBS is the same as having IAW CAR42A in the statement not making AD/ENG/4 applicable.

[bellsux]

also.. if a LAME has endorsed the maintenance release with 'Oil cx + filter insp IAW Lyc SB 480E' at '7339 (or F/SW 1889) or each 4 mths'. it will have to be carried out regardless of AD/ENG/4 and as that SB does include filter screen inspection and filter disassembly / inspection which a pilot cannot carry out under Schedule 8. For example if the engine had made metal previously or any other maintenance concern this could be added as an extra requirement to the AD.

Discussing this with the maintenance organisation and the LAME that issued the MR is the best advice.

[tnuc]

I think you are wrong as the first line in the AD clearly states that the AD is applicable to aircraft maintained under CAR 42B which is the CASA maintenance schedule. So as That Chinese Fella said it all comes back to the Log Book Statement and what system is applicable to that particular aircraft.

If you are not maintaining to the CASA Maintenance schedule then you will most likley be maintaining your aircraft manufactures schedule, most manufacturers require oil/filter to be serviced as per the engine manufactures requirements so you are back to say 50Hr/4Mth for example

You could be on your own system of maintenace approved by CASA however they are nearly always going to use either the CASA schedule or Mfr's schedule as a Minimmum when approving your system.

End of the day, the cheapest parts you can put on/in your engine is OIL FILTER and the FUEL

[blackhand]

I have to smile, as an old hand said to me once: Get 4 LAMEs in a room and you will get at least 5 answers to the problem.

Change the oil. check your filter and sign it off.
We are not talking about a 747 here.

Blackhand

[bellsux]

Yeah good idea blackhand, those CARs, ADs and all those other rubbish rules are too difficult to read and understand so lets all just do as we please to make it easier on everyone.

[blackhand]

BELLSUX - and by the way no they don't!!!

The reality is that a simple issue has been turned into this long winded discussion - as I said before get 4 LAMEs together and you will get atleast 5 answers.
And BTW I have been a licenced mechanic for nearly 30 years.

[bellsux]

Plankbender, this thread has bent out a bit from your original question and the answer lies in CAR41 (1)

The holder of the certificate of registration for a class B aircraft must
ensure that all maintenance required to be carried out on the aircraft
(including any aircraft components from time to time included in or
fitted to the aircraft) by the aircraft’s maintenance schedule is carried
out when required by that schedule.

Also read CAR 42 A, B, C and D along with Log Book Statement to find out which system you are using for maintenance and if it is CASA Schedule 5 note that it includes all categories airframe, engine, electrical, instrument and radio. Your MR stated in an earlier thread that it was marked on the Part 1 , CASA and Piper schedules, if so it would mean that you most likely have a CASA approved system under CAR42C as CAR 42D talks about, in which case AD-ENG-4 does NOT apply as it states clearly in applicability that it only covers 42B.

If want your LAME to swap the system under 42B and AD-ENG-4 giving you the freedom to carry out 50 hour oil and filter changes all the other prerequisites detailed in the AD will have to be complied with.

Finaly I really dont want to continue this topic as there is only one set of rules that apply to this thread and its digressions, it is only a few pages long, simple to understand and it is the LAW (note CAR41 (3) An offence against subregulation (1) or (2) is an offence of strict liability. Note For strict liability, see section 6.1 of the Criminal Code. You dont need four LAMEs or a forum to interpret their undersandings of it as there is only one set of simple answers under Part 4 Maintenance and if you have any difficulties you should approach your nearest CASA office to clarify it.

[tnuc]

Herein lies the next problem ..

if you have any difficulties you should approach your nearest CASA office to clarify it.

Ask 4 CASA offices the same question and you will get 5 different answers !

[Clearedtoreenter]

Ask 4 CASA offices the same question and you will get 5 different answers !

So if you don't get the answer you want, just try another one somewhere else, possibly in a different state..... As one said to me when I was trying to reconcile two different views on the same maintenance issue, 'its all a matter of interpretation'. So the only place to really work it out is in court!

[bellsux]

Considering that there are only three options available, 42A 42B or 42C there are no allowances for interpretations, both LAMEs and Certifiate of Registration holders must know them and the implications if they are in breach of them. Some people still obviously have trouble understanding those options as the last two pages show but if it came to insurers not wanting to cough up the cash in a claim or CASA pinging someone the lawyers will spell it out easily enough.

[PlankBlender]

Wow, I'm not easily confused normally when it comes to the law, but you guys did it

This being my first aircraft, I hadn't really considered pilot maintenance or indeed the intricacies of the maintenance system. I usually just had the LAME deal with it. The oil change issue got me thinking, and again thanks to everyone for contributing, it has opened my eyes for the complexity of the situation.

Here's the verbatim from my aircraft log book:

This aircraft is to be maintained in accordance with the following:
[x] maintenance schedules
[ ] system of maintenance

This aircraft is to be maintained in accordance with the following:

(a) The CAA maintenance Schedule
(b) All specific inspections and lifed component changes which are listed in:
i) a schedule of Airworthiness Limitations contained in the Maintenance Manual applicable to this aircraft;
ii) approved data relating to modifications incorporated in this aircraft; and
iii) approved data relating to modifications incorporated in components installed in this aircraft;
must be complied with.
(c) All Airworthiness Directives applicable to this aircraft must be complied with.
(d) Airworthiness Directives required to be carried out at the Major Inspection must be complied with at intervals not greater than three years.

(Note: (1) This aircraft is exempt from the requirement of a major inspection as specified in CAO 100.5.1. Section 3.3.

As a reminder, my MR says this:

My MR says 'Oil cx + filter insp IAW Lyc SB 480E' at '7339 (or F/SW 1889) or each 4 mths'.

My MR stipulates 'CASA maintenance sch 5 + PA18-181 mm'

CAR42B stipulates that

if..the holder of the certificate of registration..has elected to use the CASA maintenance schedule..the aircraft's maintenance schedule is the CASA maintenance schedule.

So assuming Piper refers to Lycoming for maintenance of the engine (and therefore the Lycoming SB being part of the Piper maintenance manual which is then part of the maintenance schedule), I still have the difference between the Lycoming SB stipulating filter inspection, and ENG4 not requiring it when the pilot executes the oil change.

My insurer's statement lets me to believe I can choose whether to do it myself (i.e. without filter inspection as per ENG4) or have my LAME do it (with inspection according to the SB), and it will have no effect on liability or indeed compliance with the law. Anyone beg to differ?

Could I execute that choice every time an oil change comes up?

[blackhand]

I'm so confused

Wow, I'm not easily confused normally when it comes to the law, but you guys did it

BELLSUX

Considering that there are only three options available, 42A 42B or 42C there are no allowances for interpretations

Finaly I really dont want to continue this topic as there is only one set of rules that apply to this thread and its digressions, it is only a few pages long, simple to understand and it is the LAW

Tnuc

You could be on your own system of maintenace approved by CASA however they are nearly always going to use either the CASA schedule or Mfr's schedule as a Minimmum when approving your system.

Socket

It is a legal requirement and nothing is surer to upset a LAME than to find out a pilot/owner has been carrying out maintenance on an aircraft with the LAME's signature on the MR and the pilot/owner made no entries or certifications for that maintenance.

No wonder you are confused Plankbender.
And can probably explain why it takes so long to get a simple oil change carried out by some of the mechanics posting here. LOL

I spoke with Airworthiness (Eastern) about this issue and they would have no problems with the owner/pilot carrying out this simple task on his own aircraft.

Look after your aircraft and it will look after you.

Blackhand