Ahhhhhh....
QF....American RT is GREAT! You get all kinds of extra useful bits of information...like, the scores in the big 'ball game'...where they're going for a drink after work...petrol prices etc, and theres so many CTAF's, so close together and everyones doing the same! Such entertainment! 
Plus you get to say cool stuff like '126 point 7'...and joining the 'pattern'...or 'coming down 4326' for a code readback, and then theres 'BN Ctr, ABC, with you'...thats it! Now how much easier is that! (And I have heard that over here). God luv em!
Click....BANG!
Pyro...I think you may find it a little bit more than 'finickety' if, whilst some tool is 'ummming and ahhhhing' their way thru a call, you're trying to get a mayday/pan call in.
Plus you get to say cool stuff like '126 point 7'...and joining the 'pattern'...or 'coming down 4326' for a code readback, and then theres 'BN Ctr, ABC, with you'...thats it! Now how much easier is that! (And I have heard that over here). God luv em!
Click....BANG!
Pyro...I think you may find it a little bit more than 'finickety' if, whilst some tool is 'ummming and ahhhhing' their way thru a call, you're trying to get a mayday/pan call in.
Last edited by Unusual-Attitude; 20th Feb 2009 at 11:12.
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The pause when calling taxi or position report and waiting for a "go ahead" was introduced with TAAATS to allow ATC's to get their head around the new system. That's long gone. Nowadays just jump straight into the full taxi call or position report. If we're not ready, we'll ask you to repeat.
I still give the prompt on the majority of occasions.
Pyro, it would be better to give your intention to make a full stop, glide approach etc. earlier on rather than on final to allow following traffic more time to adjust their speed/spacing etc to allow for potential backtracking or any other considerations. Likewise for any departing.
Now.............I'm off to check those rolls of sh!te tickets!
Seasonally Adjusted
If we're not ready, we'll ask you to repeat.
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The "prompt" procedure as mentioned came about when TAAATS was introduced, as it was said, the controllers needed some extra time to find where to input the data etc etc with the new system. In fact it was said (by the GM of the day in the then CAA) at the time that the procedure would be removed when everyone was used to the work environment, but as usual it is easy to put something in place but not so easy to remove it!!!
Once upon a time this used to be called "offering" and was used almost exclusively on HF, which for those that use HF would understand. Back then it was almost unheard of to "offer" a position report or departure report on VHF, one would just go straight into it and with very few exceptions the controller or FSO would copy it. The only time that offering was used was when the transmission to follow was "out of the ordinary", usually in the form of "Center ABC request" etc
Things changed with TAAATS as mentioned above and procedures were also changed with the introduction of STARS as there were complaints from some pilots that they could not copy it down without the controller "offering" it to them first - hence you will find that STARS are still offered by ATC.
It is of interest that offering on VHF for what one might call normal calls seems to be uniquely Australian. In some countries it would bog the system down - there is just not time to do it. What's more both pilots and controllers cope with very few 'say again's'.
This is a culture thing and if you started flying within the last 15 years or so you most likely don't know any different.
The sooner they scrap any requirement to 'offer' the better and we can all advance to gripe about something else!!
Just us oldies around to remind us what things used to be like and point out that not all change is for the better!!
T
Once upon a time this used to be called "offering" and was used almost exclusively on HF, which for those that use HF would understand. Back then it was almost unheard of to "offer" a position report or departure report on VHF, one would just go straight into it and with very few exceptions the controller or FSO would copy it. The only time that offering was used was when the transmission to follow was "out of the ordinary", usually in the form of "Center ABC request" etc
Things changed with TAAATS as mentioned above and procedures were also changed with the introduction of STARS as there were complaints from some pilots that they could not copy it down without the controller "offering" it to them first - hence you will find that STARS are still offered by ATC.
It is of interest that offering on VHF for what one might call normal calls seems to be uniquely Australian. In some countries it would bog the system down - there is just not time to do it. What's more both pilots and controllers cope with very few 'say again's'.
This is a culture thing and if you started flying within the last 15 years or so you most likely don't know any different.
The sooner they scrap any requirement to 'offer' the better and we can all advance to gripe about something else!!
Just us oldies around to remind us what things used to be like and point out that not all change is for the better!!
T
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I hear these pearlers almost everyday where I fly.
"Uppercumbuckim traffic, ABC taxis to hold short RWY 19"
A short taxi...
"Brisvegas Traffic, ABC enters to Backtrack RWY 19, vacating Brownsville"
A long backtrack that one!
"Wayshist traffic, ABC airbourne 19, turning right, vacating for Chalkland"
ELVIS HAS LEFT THE BUILDING!!!
AIP, I don't think these guys have ever layed eyes on it, let alone opened the cover!
"Uppercumbuckim traffic, ABC taxis to hold short RWY 19"
A short taxi...
"Brisvegas Traffic, ABC enters to Backtrack RWY 19, vacating Brownsville"
A long backtrack that one!
"Wayshist traffic, ABC airbourne 19, turning right, vacating for Chalkland"
ELVIS HAS LEFT THE BUILDING!!!
AIP, I don't think these guys have ever layed eyes on it, let alone opened the cover!
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I am guilty of some poor radio form at times however do my best to keep it as per jepps .... but this one gets me ...
"ML ctr ABC departed DEF tracking 000 climbing FLXXX pending clearance ABCDE 47"
rant over.
"ML ctr ABC departed DEF tracking 000 climbing FLXXX pending clearance ABCDE 47"
rant over.
Last edited by B767MAD; 20th Feb 2009 at 23:45. Reason: spelling was obviously of second importance
One thing that bugs me is when you are tracking direct somewhere and the controllers give you descent but neglect to add "radar terrain".
Radar terrain clearance charts are used within 40NM of radar TCUs, so if you are direct to somewhere other than within 40NM of those locations, radar terrain clearance doesn't exist.
Controllers will give descent to:
leave CTA on descent, if LSALT is OCTA; (Note: if RTCC level is OCTA we don't use it, except on an emergency basis)
MSA;
Radar Lowest safe altitude (from the RTCC);
LSALT - if you are off a normal route we may ask your LSALT or give you grid LSALT';
ground level when cleared for instrument approach; &
a lower level, if visual, where the level will have visual appended to it.
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On a brighter note, I heard today the BEST radio call I've ever heard in 10 years of flying.
It was the Eriksson Sky Crane inbound to Essendon. It wasn't just the American accent or anything, the radio was perfectly clear, the language used and procedure was absolutely perfect and extremely professional.
Great to hear considering how busy these guys must get on the radio and how they must get sick of making radio calls.
It was the Eriksson Sky Crane inbound to Essendon. It wasn't just the American accent or anything, the radio was perfectly clear, the language used and procedure was absolutely perfect and extremely professional.
Great to hear considering how busy these guys must get on the radio and how they must get sick of making radio calls.
XXX,
I flew at the same time as these guys at BK the first few weekends they were there. And even though at times ATC needed to hold their hands through some stuff it still sounded professional, learnt a lot from it
I flew at the same time as these guys at BK the first few weekends they were there. And even though at times ATC needed to hold their hands through some stuff it still sounded professional, learnt a lot from it
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I felt a bit nasty on the weekend. Was reporting a potential fire bug in the act where a fire had just started and I was a little impatient with ATC to which I was replied to with STAND BY, for the second time. Sorry about that guys 
In the mean time I started to follow the offender only to have my passenger want to spew which ended the chase. Could have got very interesting.
In the mean time I started to follow the offender only to have my passenger want to spew which ended the chase. Could have got very interesting.
Roger Standby & Triadic thank-you for your posts!
Can you confirm/comment that it is not a requirement to broadcast when left a level when in and staying in CTA/Z when radar identified?
cheerio,
Can you confirm/comment that it is not a requirement to broadcast when left a level when in and staying in CTA/Z when radar identified?
cheerio,
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At least they use it
A couple of "ahh's" or "Umm's" isnt so bad, at least they're using the radio.
I've seen two examples of GA pilots recently not making any calls in and out of an active class C airfield, with ATC and an active circuit operating.
The first one taxied, lined up and departed without making any calls. They then flew for 60Nm (transiting an active parachute area) before arriving at their destination.
The second one rocked up at the boundary and kept on coming. Not one call. Tracked over head the airfield, joined crosswind and landed on the duty Runway.
Just one "ahh" or "Umm" would have been nice from these two.
I've seen two examples of GA pilots recently not making any calls in and out of an active class C airfield, with ATC and an active circuit operating.
The first one taxied, lined up and departed without making any calls. They then flew for 60Nm (transiting an active parachute area) before arriving at their destination.
The second one rocked up at the boundary and kept on coming. Not one call. Tracked over head the airfield, joined crosswind and landed on the duty Runway.
Just one "ahh" or "Umm" would have been nice from these two.
Join Date: May 2007
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Flying in the US several years ago I was demonstrating an Australian built ag plane in Oklahoma when the guy I had in the dicky seat suggested a quick diversion to Altus AFB to check out their big runway that he said was an alternate for the space shuttles if needed. We were near Elk City (excellent all you can eat catfish restaurant in that town) when we headed south and he told me the tower freq, so I gave them a call:
“Altus TWR Victor Hotel XXX, a GA200, 2 miles south of Elk City, 4000 inbound ,negative information, request airways clearance”
“Where yorl from sir, are yorl an ossie?”
“affirm”
“Ahh Had a great tarm darn in Ossie a few years ago, make left traffic,report farnal for runway thirty five..”
“Maintain 4000?”
“That Be Farn….. whut type are yorl flarn?.. whut’s a gee ay 200 hunnert anyways”
“A Crop duster, we’d like to do a few touch and go’s then depart for Clinton”
“Thad Be Farn.Sir,.yorl wanna cuppa carffee?, we aint seen wunna them ossie cropdusters before”
“negative TWR we’re just coming to look at your runway”
“Victor XX, final 35”
“ you shore you doan wanna carfee, yorl can land over here rart besard the taar, an we’ll bring one darn tooya”
“no Thanks ..Really”
“well , sir yorl are clear for the option, make left traffic”
We then proceeded to do 5 touch and goes, each to about 150-200 ft during one pass down the 4 km runway
“Victor XX airwork complete, request onward clearance”
“waal, Ah ain’t never seen it done lark thayt befower, havva narse day sir”
“Confirm clear to Clinton 4000”
“, yorl havva narse day and come back now some tarm fur a carfee y’heer”
“Victor X X G’Day”
“oh, That’s Raht, Gerd Die Mite”
And you guys quibble over the occasional Aaahhh……
HD
“Altus TWR Victor Hotel XXX, a GA200, 2 miles south of Elk City, 4000 inbound ,negative information, request airways clearance”
“Where yorl from sir, are yorl an ossie?”
“affirm”
“Ahh Had a great tarm darn in Ossie a few years ago, make left traffic,report farnal for runway thirty five..”
“Maintain 4000?”
“That Be Farn….. whut type are yorl flarn?.. whut’s a gee ay 200 hunnert anyways”
“A Crop duster, we’d like to do a few touch and go’s then depart for Clinton”
“Thad Be Farn.Sir,.yorl wanna cuppa carffee?, we aint seen wunna them ossie cropdusters before”
“negative TWR we’re just coming to look at your runway”
“Victor XX, final 35”
“ you shore you doan wanna carfee, yorl can land over here rart besard the taar, an we’ll bring one darn tooya”
“no Thanks ..Really”
“well , sir yorl are clear for the option, make left traffic”
We then proceeded to do 5 touch and goes, each to about 150-200 ft during one pass down the 4 km runway
“Victor XX airwork complete, request onward clearance”
“waal, Ah ain’t never seen it done lark thayt befower, havva narse day sir”
“Confirm clear to Clinton 4000”
“, yorl havva narse day and come back now some tarm fur a carfee y’heer”
“Victor X X G’Day”
“oh, That’s Raht, Gerd Die Mite”
And you guys quibble over the occasional Aaahhh……
HD
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We were on a mission and had to get back to a Weatherford to meet some people or I would have taken him up on the offer.
I have had some pretty casual ATC (mainly TWR ATC's) the radar guys can get very busy and are normally much more concise in the US. At Burbank a couple of years ago I was doing some demo work in another Australian designed aircraft, and the customer wanted to do some circuits during rush hour, but it seemed to be OK by the TWR because they had us doing some mighty unusual circuit work in order to thread us among the stream of 737's that were almost non stop. amazing!
Then i did a very short, 5 nm sector back across to Van Nuys at night for 16L, and it was easy and an aussie accent helps no end, even with a N reg. had nothing but help from all ATC in the US, and plenty of nonstandard RT, a bit confusing was altitudes expressed as decimal thousands jumbled up with RT freqs with the 'one' left off and no DAY-SEE-MAL
e.g. "Vegas Departures November Blah Blah is with yu on twenty nine point five passing two point one for six point five"
I would rather be hearing the occaisional aaarr in there than the whole sale disregard for any form of adherence to AIP.
I flew with a yank in Argentina who insisted on abbreviating Foxtrot to "Farks" leaving off the 'trart'. I asked him if he always did that and he said yes so i asked how he would say RFJ, and without thinking he said
"Rowmeyo Farks Jooleet" "oh I see what you mean"...
I have had some pretty casual ATC (mainly TWR ATC's) the radar guys can get very busy and are normally much more concise in the US. At Burbank a couple of years ago I was doing some demo work in another Australian designed aircraft, and the customer wanted to do some circuits during rush hour, but it seemed to be OK by the TWR because they had us doing some mighty unusual circuit work in order to thread us among the stream of 737's that were almost non stop. amazing!
Then i did a very short, 5 nm sector back across to Van Nuys at night for 16L, and it was easy and an aussie accent helps no end, even with a N reg. had nothing but help from all ATC in the US, and plenty of nonstandard RT, a bit confusing was altitudes expressed as decimal thousands jumbled up with RT freqs with the 'one' left off and no DAY-SEE-MAL
e.g. "Vegas Departures November Blah Blah is with yu on twenty nine point five passing two point one for six point five"
I would rather be hearing the occaisional aaarr in there than the whole sale disregard for any form of adherence to AIP.
I flew with a yank in Argentina who insisted on abbreviating Foxtrot to "Farks" leaving off the 'trart'. I asked him if he always did that and he said yes so i asked how he would say RFJ, and without thinking he said
"Rowmeyo Farks Jooleet" "oh I see what you mean"...
