Rfds Se Section
Sheeeez 'S8' those days are long gone lifting patients that heavy by hand.
Nurses where the worst sufferers of that practice, talk to any older nurse & you will find their backs are stuffed from lifting pateints day in day out manually.
Am puzzled how the NSW Govt say that an extra $10 Mill per plane will be needed to carry the fatties of our society
So to my figuring that means an A/C costing around $18-19 Mill each for the Ambo service, what just to carry a few fatties every now & then? I don't think so
Besides the B200 costs around $8.5 Mill @ to put into service, what the hell costs $18+Mill (adding the so called $10 Mill per airframe) & still get in & out of the short dirt strips single pilot?
'Plovett' as you would know ( I assume) assisting any lifting device with the human hand is forbidden, OH&S laws would string you up for doing so. But I know the practice does happen, at yr own peril I say.
The Govt are good for one thing, they are a great source of entertainment !
Wmk2
Nurses where the worst sufferers of that practice, talk to any older nurse & you will find their backs are stuffed from lifting pateints day in day out manually.
Am puzzled how the NSW Govt say that an extra $10 Mill per plane will be needed to carry the fatties of our society
So to my figuring that means an A/C costing around $18-19 Mill each for the Ambo service, what just to carry a few fatties every now & then? I don't think so Besides the B200 costs around $8.5 Mill @ to put into service, what the hell costs $18+Mill (adding the so called $10 Mill per airframe) & still get in & out of the short dirt strips single pilot?'Plovett' as you would know ( I assume) assisting any lifting device with the human hand is forbidden, OH&S laws would string you up for doing so. But I know the practice does happen, at yr own peril I say.
The Govt are good for one thing, they are a great source of entertainment !
Wmk2
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what the hell costs $18+Mill (adding the so called $10 Mill per airframe) & still get in & out of the short dirt strips single pilot?
Imagine how man 'fatty's we could stuff in there...
How much would it cost to purchase and fit out a B350, including the extra crew member?
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What extra crew member? The B350 is still a single pilot airplane!
The cost to purchase and fit out is about $1.5 mill more than a B200, although the additional running costs over a twelve moth period may well run into the $10 mill range...
The cost to purchase and fit out is about $1.5 mill more than a B200, although the additional running costs over a twelve moth period may well run into the $10 mill range...
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There are a number of PC12s now in Police ops, and a great aircraft for thoes ops. Great range, good speed, heeps of room, and at 4760kgs ramp there is not much thay cant do at there cost of operating. They cost half that of a good old 402 to operate.
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you have to start talking about balanced field with the B350 I would imagine. starts knocking some of the strips out of the equation.
Nice one 'HH', am trying to get my head around one of those Bell thingies having an eng failure just whe you start transitioning. With it's off airport capabilities we would get flogged even more 'HH' so lets not encourage those expensive contraptions
As 'HH' said about $1.5 Mill more than the B200GT for the B350 & SP, balanced field lengths could be reworked to work in most of the strips we fly into.
'pc12togo' Could you supply some info just for my interest on the range/fuel capacity & usefull load of a typical PC12? FF's would be good too tnxs. PM me if you wish not to get embroiled in a grubby street fighting match here
Out of curiosity does anybody know what the plan of action is if one of the Bell thingies can't get the wing/engine back to the hover position for ldg? Would be interesting to land one in fwd flight. OUCH, those blades.....
Wmk2
As 'HH' said about $1.5 Mill more than the B200GT for the B350 & SP, balanced field lengths could be reworked to work in most of the strips we fly into.
'pc12togo' Could you supply some info just for my interest on the range/fuel capacity & usefull load of a typical PC12? FF's would be good too tnxs. PM me if you wish not to get embroiled in a grubby street fighting match here
Out of curiosity does anybody know what the plan of action is if one of the Bell thingies can't get the wing/engine back to the hover position for ldg? Would be interesting to land one in fwd flight. OUCH, those blades.....
Wmk2
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I don't know for sure, but suspect that both engines are connected to the drive of both props/rotors (what are they called? protors perhaps?), in a similar fashion that twin helicopters only have one rotor...
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Wally Mk II
The commentator on the radio stated that the NSW Ambulance was going fit some ambulances and they specifically highlighted the cost of fitting aircraft with gear to cope with 265kg. The new lifter in SE Section has recently been rated to lift 250kg including the Litter and medical gear.
They have a system that in the event that a heavy patient is required to be moved they send the "Litter" to the hospital and load the patient there using the hospitals lifting gear along with a specially designed sling. The lifter on the aircraft then lifts the patient and litter onto the aircraft. I think the litter weighes about 25kg's and they allow another 25kg for gear. Max patient 200kg's
The new system is heavy though and with 4 POB only about 2100lbs of fuel can be loaded with all pax at standard weights. Not a lot of endurance at 600lbs/hr.
One of the problems with the B200 cabin is that it tapers towards the rear reducing the room in that area.
SN
The commentator on the radio stated that the NSW Ambulance was going fit some ambulances and they specifically highlighted the cost of fitting aircraft with gear to cope with 265kg. The new lifter in SE Section has recently been rated to lift 250kg including the Litter and medical gear.
They have a system that in the event that a heavy patient is required to be moved they send the "Litter" to the hospital and load the patient there using the hospitals lifting gear along with a specially designed sling. The lifter on the aircraft then lifts the patient and litter onto the aircraft. I think the litter weighes about 25kg's and they allow another 25kg for gear. Max patient 200kg's
The new system is heavy though and with 4 POB only about 2100lbs of fuel can be loaded with all pax at standard weights. Not a lot of endurance at 600lbs/hr.
One of the problems with the B200 cabin is that it tapers towards the rear reducing the room in that area.
SN
Okay 'SN' that's good to know, always handy to find out info from other sources, correct or otherwise.
The floor loading is also an issue with the Beech as in the weight of the wheels on the stretcher with a combined weight of 250Kgs would damage the current floor surface which is modified in the current fleet due to the sunken floor of the B200 ex factory.
I know there are a lot of new rd ambulances that have the uprated stretcher to handle the heavy weight person but they are not interchangeable with the planes at the moment. So shifting a patient from one stretcher to another at night at some country airstrip in pouring rain is just awful
Yr correct about the new system being heavy & the fuel load available. Still 2,5 hrs crz + reserves works for most tasks.
And yes the Beech does taper towards the rear but that's not an issue, humans tend to taper at the end also so they fit
Wmk2
The floor loading is also an issue with the Beech as in the weight of the wheels on the stretcher with a combined weight of 250Kgs would damage the current floor surface which is modified in the current fleet due to the sunken floor of the B200 ex factory.
I know there are a lot of new rd ambulances that have the uprated stretcher to handle the heavy weight person but they are not interchangeable with the planes at the moment. So shifting a patient from one stretcher to another at night at some country airstrip in pouring rain is just awful
Yr correct about the new system being heavy & the fuel load available. Still 2,5 hrs crz + reserves works for most tasks.
And yes the Beech does taper towards the rear but that's not an issue, humans tend to taper at the end also so they fit
Wmk2
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Wally Mk II
350's would be nice, that extra metre of cabin and I think around 1500lbs lift would solve a lot of problems. Balanced field should fit with EN, not sure how they'd get around the two crew thing?
I spoke to a 350 pilot recently and he said they actually have a better power to weight ratio than the 200 and so have a shorter ground roll. Balanced field being weight vs field length it most likely would be workable although all fields would have to be surveyed.
Watch em line up for the job should they get those in EN! Seems to me that SE section is currently setting the standard for aeromed in this country, finally someone is thinking about the big picture rather than focusing on keeping T & C's so low as to affect morale. At the end of the day it comes down to who offers the best product for a competitive price wins the contract.
Whats next, NT aeromed contract? I hope.
SN
350's would be nice, that extra metre of cabin and I think around 1500lbs lift would solve a lot of problems. Balanced field should fit with EN, not sure how they'd get around the two crew thing?
I spoke to a 350 pilot recently and he said they actually have a better power to weight ratio than the 200 and so have a shorter ground roll. Balanced field being weight vs field length it most likely would be workable although all fields would have to be surveyed.
Watch em line up for the job should they get those in EN! Seems to me that SE section is currently setting the standard for aeromed in this country, finally someone is thinking about the big picture rather than focusing on keeping T & C's so low as to affect morale. At the end of the day it comes down to who offers the best product for a competitive price wins the contract.
Whats next, NT aeromed contract? I hope.
SN
Last edited by PPRuNeUser0161; 5th Jan 2009 at 10:52.
Seems to me that SE section is currently setting the standard for aeromed in this country, finally someone is thinking about the big picture rather than focusing on keeping T & C's so low as to affect morale
QLD Section pay quite well ($85k starting base salary), and have a pretty high standard in their Aeromed fleet. Out of a fleet of 14 aircraft, only 3 of them are pre 2000 model's (and they are kept as spares), meaning the fleet is kept at a high standard. The T&C's are also pretty good.
Cheers
morno
'morno' is quite right, the Qld section pay the best & in fact it was their leading pay structure that led the way for other sections to follow. Although these increases where when pilots where leaving to join the airlines in record numbers, that's slowed so few are leaving the best GA job going.
As I said elswhere introduce a jet/s into the RFDS system & then watch a lot of pilots pull their CV's from the airlines. Good money, latest airframes & a few jets would mean a career worth working towards outside of the airlines. The older you get in this game the more one tends to look at lifestyle (1/2 the hrs the airliens fly), something that the airlines don't offer too much.
Wmk2
As I said elswhere introduce a jet/s into the RFDS system & then watch a lot of pilots pull their CV's from the airlines. Good money, latest airframes & a few jets would mean a career worth working towards outside of the airlines. The older you get in this game the more one tends to look at lifestyle (1/2 the hrs the airliens fly), something that the airlines don't offer too much.
Wmk2
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Wally Mk2,
With regard to your question about what happens if the engine nacelles can't be rotated to the upright position for hovering see below.
I particularly like the way they casually say that "The blades simply fray into individual strands". Bit hard to see if it really works in this video....
YouTube - V22 "Osprey" CRASH
Like this effort though!
YouTube - v22 osprey roll
CH.
With regard to your question about what happens if the engine nacelles can't be rotated to the upright position for hovering see below.
The V-22 Osprey combines the flight regimes of both helicopters and high-speed turboprop fixed wing aircraft. The need to make the Osprey crashworthy within this expansive flight envelope led to many unique features. The basic layout of a tiltrotor puts the large mass items such as engines and transmissions out away from the crew and cabin areas. In the event of a crash landing the occupants are not jeopardized by these items entering the occupied areas.
In the event of a crash landing the wing is designed to fail outboard of the wing/fuselage attachment. This "mass shedding" absorbs kinetic energy from the crash. Otherwise, this energy must be absorbed by the landing gear, structure or the occupants. In the nose of the aircraft is a very strong structure called the antiplow bulkhead. This reduces plowing, or "digging in" of the nose during a crash. The forward fuselage is designed to absorb crash forces of 4 g upward and 6 g rearward. The tricycle landing gear on the V-22 is designed to absorb a high sink rate of 24 feet per second (0.4 ft/min, 7.3 m/s)
The cockpit and cabin structure is designed to be 15 percent stronger than the wing's failure load. The overhead wing design also makes the occupied areas inherently stronger and safer in a roll-over or inverted impact. The occupied cabin area is designed to maintain 85 percent of its volume during a crash. The cockpit and cabin seats stroke vertically to absorb crash energy. Each seat has a restraint harness. The design of the cockpit has minimized the number of head strike hazards.
In the event the V-22 must land with it proprotors in the horizontal or cruise position, the occupants are protected from flying proprotor shards. The blades simply fray into individual strands that pose no harm to the occupants.
In the event of a crash landing the wing is designed to fail outboard of the wing/fuselage attachment. This "mass shedding" absorbs kinetic energy from the crash. Otherwise, this energy must be absorbed by the landing gear, structure or the occupants. In the nose of the aircraft is a very strong structure called the antiplow bulkhead. This reduces plowing, or "digging in" of the nose during a crash. The forward fuselage is designed to absorb crash forces of 4 g upward and 6 g rearward. The tricycle landing gear on the V-22 is designed to absorb a high sink rate of 24 feet per second (0.4 ft/min, 7.3 m/s)
The cockpit and cabin structure is designed to be 15 percent stronger than the wing's failure load. The overhead wing design also makes the occupied areas inherently stronger and safer in a roll-over or inverted impact. The occupied cabin area is designed to maintain 85 percent of its volume during a crash. The cockpit and cabin seats stroke vertically to absorb crash energy. Each seat has a restraint harness. The design of the cockpit has minimized the number of head strike hazards.
In the event the V-22 must land with it proprotors in the horizontal or cruise position, the occupants are protected from flying proprotor shards. The blades simply fray into individual strands that pose no harm to the occupants.
YouTube - V22 "Osprey" CRASH
Like this effort though!
YouTube - v22 osprey roll
CH.
In RFDS Westops, for the PC12s, they had what was dubbed the 'Fat Mat'. Not sure what weight it was rated to but it involved taking out the normal stretchers and using a slide board that was secured to the floor.
Obviously the normal SLD couldn't be used so there were some real OHS issues getting the obese patient up into the aircraft. Never had to use the 'Fat Mat' and can't say I'm overly disappointed.
The V-22 Osprey was touted as a possible aircraft to be used in SAR Ops but I think the unit price was way too much. Questions: Does anyone know if the Osprey is capable of winching and what sort of speed/ range does it have?
Obviously the normal SLD couldn't be used so there were some real OHS issues getting the obese patient up into the aircraft. Never had to use the 'Fat Mat' and can't say I'm overly disappointed.
The V-22 Osprey was touted as a possible aircraft to be used in SAR Ops but I think the unit price was way too much. Questions: Does anyone know if the Osprey is capable of winching and what sort of speed/ range does it have?
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Wmk2
Sorry mate been busy
Our pc12 data
BEW 2875 in 10 seat
0 Fuel 4100
Ramp 4760
Take off 4740
Landing 4500
Max Fuel 2703 lbs
Planed fuel burn is 450/hr.
Tas 245 kts at 690 deg egt. Can crz at 720 which will give you app 255.
At F170 to F240 burn is app 400/hr and at F300 it is app 320. This is were we can get the range.
It has never let us down, with 100% despach, and our direct op costs are app $540/hr. Only $100 up on the 402.
We can carry 7 Star group guys with all there gear 500 nm. With the net in the combo set up and 7 seats, have heaps of room for all there gear which is large and heavy. Loading with the rear door is fast and easy.
All in all a great aircraft. We have Garmin 530's and EFB, you just sit back and watch it happen.
Yes it is a single engine aircraft, but our dept did a big risk assement on this and it can up trumps. We, at the start were a bit worried as we wanted a twin, F406 or B200 but they were well out of our buget, and the govt would only buy new, but now have 1000 hrs and 2 years of ops and it has been able to do anything that we have chucked at it.
All staff are happy to fly in it, and a fun AC to fly.
Sorry mate been busy
Our pc12 data
BEW 2875 in 10 seat
0 Fuel 4100
Ramp 4760
Take off 4740
Landing 4500
Max Fuel 2703 lbs
Planed fuel burn is 450/hr.
Tas 245 kts at 690 deg egt. Can crz at 720 which will give you app 255.
At F170 to F240 burn is app 400/hr and at F300 it is app 320. This is were we can get the range.
It has never let us down, with 100% despach, and our direct op costs are app $540/hr. Only $100 up on the 402.
We can carry 7 Star group guys with all there gear 500 nm. With the net in the combo set up and 7 seats, have heaps of room for all there gear which is large and heavy. Loading with the rear door is fast and easy.
All in all a great aircraft. We have Garmin 530's and EFB, you just sit back and watch it happen.
Yes it is a single engine aircraft, but our dept did a big risk assement on this and it can up trumps. We, at the start were a bit worried as we wanted a twin, F406 or B200 but they were well out of our buget, and the govt would only buy new, but now have 1000 hrs and 2 years of ops and it has been able to do anything that we have chucked at it.
All staff are happy to fly in it, and a fun AC to fly.
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PC12togo,
I am a fan of the PC12, but I believe your figures are far from correct.
$540 per hour direct operating costs ?, does that take into account the capital expenses / loan repayments / hot sections inspections etc etc ?.
A Caravan costs considerably more that that to operate, somewhere around the $900 mark, based on 800 odd hours per year, hence the Charther rate of $1000-1150.
If you believe the $540 to be correct could you please post the figures.
I agree with your fuel figures and TAS numbers stated.
I am a fan of the PC12, but I believe your figures are far from correct.
$540 per hour direct operating costs ?, does that take into account the capital expenses / loan repayments / hot sections inspections etc etc ?.
A Caravan costs considerably more that that to operate, somewhere around the $900 mark, based on 800 odd hours per year, hence the Charther rate of $1000-1150.
If you believe the $540 to be correct could you please post the figures.
I agree with your fuel figures and TAS numbers stated.
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$540 per hour direct operating costs ?, does that take into account the capital expenses / loan repayments / hot sections inspections etc etc ?.
It does not take into account capital or loan repayments or crew costs.
They are direct cost only, as of today at 900hrs, on all costs, fuel, mainantance, landing, nav charges and expected hot sections.
It would be app $1300/hr with all.
It does not take into account capital or loan repayments or crew costs.
They are direct cost only, as of today at 900hrs, on all costs, fuel, mainantance, landing, nav charges and expected hot sections.
It would be app $1300/hr with all.
