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$50000+ Twin Driver??

Old 22nd Jul 2008, 02:21
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$50000+ Twin Driver??

I was having a discussion with guy looking through resumes at the company I work for about recruitment recently. It seems the flood of resumes is no more, in fact we have to ask the few people who do apply if they know of others that would be looking for work!!

I know there has been alot of discussion on the 'actual' or 'percieved' pilot shortage recently but there hasn't been a lot of ideas on how to keep people in GA any longer than 500 multi (which comes up very quick now).

I'm sure there would be a few companies out there with contracts that require pilots with 500 multi, or close to, flying piston twins. The company I work for does and they started paying a bonus for people with more than 400 multi.

Recent applicants for direct entry twin drivers (because no one in company has the hours yet to be moved up!) with baron and cheiftain endo's had minimal time on type, but a start, and were looking for $50K!!!

Three potential applicants and all refused.....
(all positions were fulltime, award rates, not remote, immediate start and as far as I know we don't have a bad reputation to scare them away)

Any Ideas?? (within reason, this is still GA..)

Award update? maybe $35K single, $45K twin IFR, and $50K+ with 250-300hrs multi??

Conditions? I guess this is still largely dependent on the company and the attitudes of everyone involved, eg what do you do when you're not flying?

RDO's? anyone work on a fixed roster at a charter company? or are they just orgainised ad hoc

Career path? I know I like to know where I'm heading even if its a rough idea. (eg,twins/new base at the end of the wet, you should have the hours by then...)


I know it's PPRuNe but can we make it serious?
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Old 22nd Jul 2008, 02:30
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What impact have people found with people changing carrees into GA from other business ventures?

If, hypothetically (ha), someone with 16 years in another industry and 8 years of management experience decided to pursue a GA carreer with no intent of moving onto the airlines (wife, kids, etc.), is there an expectation that they would end up on better pay out of the gate?

I know $50k sounds like a lot for a twin job in a Cheiften dropping freight but someone such as described above brings a lot more to the table than a 500TT newbie (and they are paying $50k in tax alone right now).

Just wondering.
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Old 22nd Jul 2008, 03:31
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Cross industry comparison

23 yo female, basic HR truck license doing deliveries in local urban area = taking home $300/day after tax. Five day week.

Admittedly its casual rates and its not flying but its not a bad earner and there's plenty of positions available.
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Old 22nd Jul 2008, 04:06
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HI AE

What is the award rate these days that people are refusing?

THX
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Old 22nd Jul 2008, 04:14
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If its in alice not for $100k!
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Old 22nd Jul 2008, 04:23
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Originally Posted by Ejector View Post
HI AE

What is the award rate these days that people are refusing?

THX
Multi Engine minimum wage:

UTBNI 3360kg - $37,699
3360kg to 5660kg - 39,306
5560kg to 8500kg - 41,592
8500kg to 12000kg - 44,930
12000kg to 15000kg - 48,477
15000kg to 19000kg - 53,050

Plus, the allowances, including but not limited to, $1128 for piston aircraft on commuter operations; $4909 for turboprop aircraft, $4510 for being required to have a CIR.
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Old 22nd Jul 2008, 04:33
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ICUS

$50k is not a lot for a chieftain pilot. It should be more. I know of a pilot who was earning $70k flying piston twins a couple of years ago.
But will not happen while there are lots of newbies, and some operators can sell it as ICUS while doing charter. Operators also have to compete with some organisations that raise money by public subscription to help cover costs.
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Old 22nd Jul 2008, 04:57
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17yo,first job, Darwhine, no quals,fixing pooter software, $50k plus
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Old 22nd Jul 2008, 04:59
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Originally Posted by aviation_enthus View Post
Three potential applicants and all refused.....
(all positions were fulltime, award rates, not remote, immediate start and as far as I know we don't have a bad reputation to scare them away)
Arr.

Here be yer problem. If all ye pay is award wage, that not be somethin' to be proud of. Award wage be a minimum, not a target.

Fer all the bellyachin' that be goin' on about the AFAP, the minimum wage be simply the minimum you can be payin yer wee pirates and still bein' complyin' with the law. What ye should be payin' them, is what they're worth to you. Not what ye'd like them to be worth... not what they think they're worth, but what they are worth. And if ye want that good reputation to be stayin good, ye better be payin' a fair piece of eight more than the award.

Arr.
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Old 22nd Jul 2008, 05:11
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Pay Peanuts??

There are a couple of companies paying 50+ for cabin drivers in Darwin. I think Hardy's is paying low 50's for their titan drivers..
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Old 22nd Jul 2008, 06:06
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...and their pax spill that amount of grog a year....
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Old 22nd Jul 2008, 08:46
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Recent applicants for direct entry twin drivers (because no one in company has the hours yet to be moved up!) with baron and cheiftain endo's had minimal time on type, but a start, and were looking for $50K!!!
How much had they just spent on the licence required to do the job ?

How much did they earn while doing the licence ?

How did they finance the training, big bank loan in the background prehaps ?

You are seeking to employ a skilled professional, have you compared the conditions you're offering to other skilled professions ?

Award wage be a minimum, not a target.
How true.

Before the current shortage, were you paying the award or exploiting new CPLs keen to gain hours ?

Does your company expect a reasonable return on its capital but complains when pilots want a reasonable return for the time and money they have put in to their training. ?

Think about it.
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Old 22nd Jul 2008, 10:46
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Aviation_enthus, I know someone with some multi who might be intersted if you're still looking. PM me if you want
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Old 22nd Jul 2008, 11:22
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My, my, my. How the tables have turned. For as long as I've known Australian GA most operators have taken pilots to the cleaners. Nice to see them having to play by the rules for a change.
 
Old 22nd Jul 2008, 11:33
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Well...

...we have been trying to do the right thing, offerring well in excess of the award for an "entry level" job.

...That's well in excess of the TWIN award to fly a SINGLE.

PLUS flight pay (paid extra to actually do your job!!!)

PLUS end of year bonus of about a month's salary.

Total comes to over $50k to fly a C206.

Bloke I spoke to a couple of weeks ago said... "gees...not much, is it?"
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Old 22nd Jul 2008, 11:54
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I will take it! A 206 job that is.
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Old 22nd Jul 2008, 12:15
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Total comes to over $50k to fly a C206.
That's about you'd pay for a forklift driver. Weeks training, pair of steel capped boots and you're away. Total cost under $500.

Even for a basic single engine VFR CPL you're looking at $35 000 and a years training, maybe a bit of casual bar work but you won't earn much in that time.

Get real, pay your pilots what they are worth.
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Old 22nd Jul 2008, 12:18
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Thanks Metro Man! Hooray! All our business problems are solved!

Why didn't we think of that?

If ONLY we'd been paying our 206 drivers $100k from the start - NOW I see where we've been going wrong....
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Old 22nd Jul 2008, 12:36
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Career swap

Well I'm one of them Flog - swapped a desk for a cockpit a few years ago, took a 50% cut in salary, but dont regret it.

I am looking to stay in GA and hope to be driving decent twins around the countryside sooner rather than later. And I am pretty keen to be able to stay put, so not likely to be running off to the airlines.

And yes, I am able to use some of the skills I collected along the way driving a desk in my GA work - it has gotten me a pay increase to be able to do things like customer liaison, document preparation, records management etc.
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Old 22nd Jul 2008, 13:00
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Surveillance Australia tried paying their pilots properly http://www.pprune.org/forums/d-g-gen...australia.html

Seems to have worked for them. $100 000 bit much for a C206 driver, suggest around $70 000. Comparable to an aircraft refueller.

Have a look a what a newly qualified accountant or similar professional would expect as a starting wage. Give them the standard GA employer sob story about keeping costs down, will lead to better things, "I'm giving you a start." etc and see how far it gets you.

Most GA employers took full advantage of the abundance of pilots a few years back to keep their costs down. You had it good for years, don't expect any sympathy now.
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