RAAF Reserve
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RAAF Reserve
Does anyone have any information regarding RAAF Reserve??
Is it even existant?? How does one become a reservist?? Do they fly much?? What are there requirements?? Are they employed or volunteers??
The reason I ask is because of the introduction of the A330 MRTT aircraft. I have quite a few hours on type and was hoping to get involved with the program. Not sure if they have dedicated crews yet, but was basically fishing for some information.
If anyone can help me, it would be much appreciated.
PS2A
Is it even existant?? How does one become a reservist?? Do they fly much?? What are there requirements?? Are they employed or volunteers??
The reason I ask is because of the introduction of the A330 MRTT aircraft. I have quite a few hours on type and was hoping to get involved with the program. Not sure if they have dedicated crews yet, but was basically fishing for some information.
If anyone can help me, it would be much appreciated.
PS2A
There was an ex mil chopper pilot who later flew for the RFDS but kept flying blackhawks "on the weekend". Not sure of the exact arrangements - I could email him but as it's not the a330 it wouldn't help anyway!
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'There are no pilots in the RAAF Reserves'
Not true. There are plenty of pilots in the RAAF reserve, some of which maintain an aircraft rating and fly regularly. They are all ex-active duty and their duties are usually tailored to their experience and the requirements of the RAAF. Individuals are integrated into the unit. eg A reservist QFI may be the only reservist in that squadron. This is becoming more common as the RAAF is being stretched by taking on new capabilities while maintaining a high optempo. It frees up bodies to go away on deployments etc However there is nothing like the reserves in the US, where you can join as a reservist on the street, and fly big boys toys on the weekend as part of a reservist unit. The only reservist units in the RAAF are basically administrative shells to keep track of the reservists that have been allocated to active duty units.
Not true. There are plenty of pilots in the RAAF reserve, some of which maintain an aircraft rating and fly regularly. They are all ex-active duty and their duties are usually tailored to their experience and the requirements of the RAAF. Individuals are integrated into the unit. eg A reservist QFI may be the only reservist in that squadron. This is becoming more common as the RAAF is being stretched by taking on new capabilities while maintaining a high optempo. It frees up bodies to go away on deployments etc However there is nothing like the reserves in the US, where you can join as a reservist on the street, and fly big boys toys on the weekend as part of a reservist unit. The only reservist units in the RAAF are basically administrative shells to keep track of the reservists that have been allocated to active duty units.
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It is an interesting point you raise. Orginally, the Citizen Air Force (CAF) in the early 1950's, trained pilot's through this system as well as the Permanent RAAF. CAF pilots trained, qualified and flew Tiger Moths, Wirraways and Mustangs on weekends. Many were World War II pilots who didn't need to qualify, but others were just off the street. This was also done in the RAFVR and RNVR for the nautical minded types and even through their National Service scheme of the early 1950's. I remember when I was a young lad in the mid-1950's these three types of aircraft being flown by 24 Sqn CAF from RAAF MALLALA (grassed over airfield - now a racing car track) while RAAF EDINBURGH was being built. Just as an aside, there is a War Grave cemetry within the town of Mallala's cemetry. It has the names of many young flyers who died while training there in World War II and shortly after.
I believe the RAAF Reserve went non-flying in the late 1950's or early 1960's. However, I understand that it went back to flying in the 80's/90's with former RAAF Pilots who graduated from RAAF PEARCE and served time in the RAAF. An example of this is the Citizen Air Force Squadron at RAAF PEARCE where they operated Macchi's.
While I appreciate you couldn't invite people with no flying experience now days, why not consider pilot's who are endorsed and have regularly sim rides and line checks to fly them either on weekends or in periods of annual training. Similar, but not quite the same where the RAN allow civilians to deliver Patrol Boats to nominated ports for the Navy to take over.
With the introduction of the B737NG to 34 Sqn in Canberra and AWACS B737NG to RAAF WILLIAMTOWN, in addition to the introduction of the A330, I would think that the RAAF could have a surplus of these pilots, if allowed by CASA and their Companies to be released. And, basically if the RAAF tolerate 'civilian pilots' to join the CAF for flying duties?
At the moment, Virgin Blue have been and are training RAAF Pilots to fly the B737NG for 34 Sqn and AWACS. As Virgin Blue seem to be getting a few RAAF Pilots to work for them, one would think they may have to put a ROSO obligation on this and future training of airline aircraft?
It is interesting that both the Air National Guard and USNR have flying Units.
I believe the RAAF Reserve went non-flying in the late 1950's or early 1960's. However, I understand that it went back to flying in the 80's/90's with former RAAF Pilots who graduated from RAAF PEARCE and served time in the RAAF. An example of this is the Citizen Air Force Squadron at RAAF PEARCE where they operated Macchi's.
While I appreciate you couldn't invite people with no flying experience now days, why not consider pilot's who are endorsed and have regularly sim rides and line checks to fly them either on weekends or in periods of annual training. Similar, but not quite the same where the RAN allow civilians to deliver Patrol Boats to nominated ports for the Navy to take over.
With the introduction of the B737NG to 34 Sqn in Canberra and AWACS B737NG to RAAF WILLIAMTOWN, in addition to the introduction of the A330, I would think that the RAAF could have a surplus of these pilots, if allowed by CASA and their Companies to be released. And, basically if the RAAF tolerate 'civilian pilots' to join the CAF for flying duties?
At the moment, Virgin Blue have been and are training RAAF Pilots to fly the B737NG for 34 Sqn and AWACS. As Virgin Blue seem to be getting a few RAAF Pilots to work for them, one would think they may have to put a ROSO obligation on this and future training of airline aircraft?
It is interesting that both the Air National Guard and USNR have flying Units.
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fence_post said :
"At the moment, Virgin Blue have been and are training RAAF Pilots to fly the B737NG for 34 Sqn and AWACS. As Virgin Blue seem to be getting a few RAAF Pilots to work for them, one would think they may have to put a ROSO obligation on this and future training of airline aircraft?"
Already done.
FH
"At the moment, Virgin Blue have been and are training RAAF Pilots to fly the B737NG for 34 Sqn and AWACS. As Virgin Blue seem to be getting a few RAAF Pilots to work for them, one would think they may have to put a ROSO obligation on this and future training of airline aircraft?"
Already done.
FH
"There are reservist pilots, but only after having been permenant (sic) air force having completed pilots course. Sorry, but the RAAF does not recognise civilian flying qualifications."
If true, then the typical arrogant air force attitude is shown yet again. There is this mentality that unless you're airforce (or ex) you're not up to it. I see it all the time.
From my own perspective, those "ex" types that I have observed are no better than anyone else.
Cheers.
VH-MLE
If true, then the typical arrogant air force attitude is shown yet again. There is this mentality that unless you're airforce (or ex) you're not up to it. I see it all the time.
From my own perspective, those "ex" types that I have observed are no better than anyone else.
Cheers.
VH-MLE
Steady on there, mate.
It's not a case of better or worse. Some military qualifications aren't recognised by CASA either, like instructor and instrument ratings, and it's the luck of the draw if you take your military log book into the CASA office and see what they'll give you credit for - they wouldn't give me formation, aerobatics or low flying and I'd only been doing it for 20 years, said I had to go and get a civil instructor to check me out and write me up for them. Not exactly frickin' user friendly in the other direction, is it?
It's not a case of better or worse. Some military qualifications aren't recognised by CASA either, like instructor and instrument ratings, and it's the luck of the draw if you take your military log book into the CASA office and see what they'll give you credit for - they wouldn't give me formation, aerobatics or low flying and I'd only been doing it for 20 years, said I had to go and get a civil instructor to check me out and write me up for them. Not exactly frickin' user friendly in the other direction, is it?
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The military have one standard thats it you either pass or fail no ifs, whats or butts. Civilian trained pilots aren't on par with military pilots who have been flying the aircraft for over 10 years. You want to let a Qantas captain play in a hornet on the weekend for fun?
The Defence Force does have cilvilian contractors doing some training but thats it. Ex-RAAF pilots are kept on a reserve list and are given hours to keep current incase they are ever needed, ie. if we went to war. The ADF train pilots from scratch whether you be a 1000hr commerical pilot or you havent any hours. They do not recognise any civlian time, its the same syllabus for both so there is a set proficiency and standard. Why comprimise your standards and the saftey of crews by bringing in civilian pilots with unknown qualities.
To call that an arrogant mindset is just being short sighted. If the ADF teach all there pilots exactly the same and fail the ones who cannot reach the standard they are garenteed to have the best pilots availiable.
The Defence Force does have cilvilian contractors doing some training but thats it. Ex-RAAF pilots are kept on a reserve list and are given hours to keep current incase they are ever needed, ie. if we went to war. The ADF train pilots from scratch whether you be a 1000hr commerical pilot or you havent any hours. They do not recognise any civlian time, its the same syllabus for both so there is a set proficiency and standard. Why comprimise your standards and the saftey of crews by bringing in civilian pilots with unknown qualities.
To call that an arrogant mindset is just being short sighted. If the ADF teach all there pilots exactly the same and fail the ones who cannot reach the standard they are garenteed to have the best pilots availiable.
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Originally Posted by dmcleod
You want to let a Qantas captain play in a hornet on the weekend for fun?
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Whilst i'm not looking for nor qualified for a similar position, it has always stuck me as extremely shortsighted at our lack of a fully functional Air Force Reserve capability.
At knock off time on Friday arvo (normally an EKO) we used to say if any country wanted to cause mischief then Saturday was the day to do it.
As for the argument about training standards and pilot ability, well thats an old chestnut thats been done to death, an old RAAF QFI has told me a few times that pilots are pilots and if you make the grade for an Aussie major then your just as likely to be as good as our Mil cousins, its just how much BS you believe about you and your enviroment.
If the Yanks (and others) can do this successfully for years why cant we?
Some of the previous answer suggest why.
Cultural and Organisational Mindset.
At knock off time on Friday arvo (normally an EKO) we used to say if any country wanted to cause mischief then Saturday was the day to do it.
As for the argument about training standards and pilot ability, well thats an old chestnut thats been done to death, an old RAAF QFI has told me a few times that pilots are pilots and if you make the grade for an Aussie major then your just as likely to be as good as our Mil cousins, its just how much BS you believe about you and your enviroment.
If the Yanks (and others) can do this successfully for years why cant we?
Some of the previous answer suggest why.
Cultural and Organisational Mindset.
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Well actually the RAAF reserve is being increased over the next ten years to 8000+ people. So it has been identified and actually is the only way the RAAF can keep working with high tempo but no impetus from either military or political leaders to allow an increased in PAF number from the current 13500 odd.
As has been said there are becoming more and more reservist pilots (particularly in the Fast jet world, not too sure about the others). However as has been said you need to be ADF trained.
Cheers
Mr B
As has been said there are becoming more and more reservist pilots (particularly in the Fast jet world, not too sure about the others). However as has been said you need to be ADF trained.
Cheers
Mr B
Nunc est bibendum
I typed this out last night in response to dmcleod but the PPRUNE database was kaput between about 1900 and midnight. Hence, here is is now:
I've got no gripes with the way the RAAF does its business WRT its use of pilots in the reserves. However there are a couple of 'false logic' issues inherent in dmcleod's points.
The first sentence contradicts the second. If it's a 'set proficiency and standard' then the required training from 'scratch' should differ significantly. Sure the syllabus may dictate the learning outcomes but I'd hope that a 1000hr pilot wouldn't be taking as many flying hours to tick the same boxes as an ab initio student. Of course, it may just be that the support mechanisms to move to competency based training are just too complex for the RAAF in an environment such as BFTS and 2FTS and so they choose to keep doing things as per the syllabus. That’s fine but at least acknowledges it for what it is.
If civilian pilots are brought into RAAF Reserve as pilots then I assume that they'd have to pass the same proficiency checks as others. In this respect their qualities would not be 'unknown'.
I know a couple of QF crew who do/did exactly that. Of course they were former RAAF. No one is suggesting that we allow pure civilian into a hornet- waste of money attempting the training if you ask me- but you're deluding yourself if you believe that there are NO aspects of the current ADF flying operation that civilian trained personnel couldn't cope with.
There are many highly qualified civilian pilots around with significant experience in heavy metal- far more experience than the most experienced RAAF heavy metal Captain and F/O. There is no realistic reason why these civilians can't be trained to undertake reserve work flying aircraft such as BBJ, Wedgetail, Challenger, KC30, and possibly even C17 type aircraft on milk run and' 'normal' type ops. There is no reason why the 34SQN operation couldn't survive on a cadre of permanent personnel with the remainder of it's crew being drawn from an extensive- and probably far more current- reserve network. Whilst I acknowledge the economies of scale in the US, if they can make it work having reservists- and not with previous military experience- in fast jets then I don't see why the RAAF can't make it work with civilians into ADF that do the exact type of flying that the civilians do day in, day out.
Of course there may be issues with aircraft such as the C17 as the requirement to keep the PAF crew current on the aircraft to undertake the types of ops that the civvies couldn't do. Low level tactical air drops would be one example. Therefore there may be a reason to restrict civvie crew to those aircraft but by and large my feeling is that the RAAF ignore a significant resource available to them in this country. That is type rated, current, frequently checked, 'known' quality (company assessments) aircrew who would be willing to 'do their bit'.
Of course it'll never happen and mcleod's post points to the reason why. The attitude of many is that unless you have jumped through the hoops as a boggie then you don't have and can never possibly demonstrate the 'right stuff'. You are therefore forever a lessor mortal of dubious standard.
Just my $0.02 worth!
I've got no gripes with the way the RAAF does its business WRT its use of pilots in the reserves. However there are a couple of 'false logic' issues inherent in dmcleod's points.
The ADF train pilots from scratch whether you be a 1000hr commercial pilot or you haven’t any hours. They do not recognise any civilian time, its the same syllabus for both so there is a set proficiency and standard.
Why comprimise your standards and the saftey of crews by bringing in civilian pilots with unknown qualities.
You want to let a Qantas captain play in a hornet on the weekend for fun?
There are many highly qualified civilian pilots around with significant experience in heavy metal- far more experience than the most experienced RAAF heavy metal Captain and F/O. There is no realistic reason why these civilians can't be trained to undertake reserve work flying aircraft such as BBJ, Wedgetail, Challenger, KC30, and possibly even C17 type aircraft on milk run and' 'normal' type ops. There is no reason why the 34SQN operation couldn't survive on a cadre of permanent personnel with the remainder of it's crew being drawn from an extensive- and probably far more current- reserve network. Whilst I acknowledge the economies of scale in the US, if they can make it work having reservists- and not with previous military experience- in fast jets then I don't see why the RAAF can't make it work with civilians into ADF that do the exact type of flying that the civilians do day in, day out.
Of course there may be issues with aircraft such as the C17 as the requirement to keep the PAF crew current on the aircraft to undertake the types of ops that the civvies couldn't do. Low level tactical air drops would be one example. Therefore there may be a reason to restrict civvie crew to those aircraft but by and large my feeling is that the RAAF ignore a significant resource available to them in this country. That is type rated, current, frequently checked, 'known' quality (company assessments) aircrew who would be willing to 'do their bit'.
Of course it'll never happen and mcleod's post points to the reason why. The attitude of many is that unless you have jumped through the hoops as a boggie then you don't have and can never possibly demonstrate the 'right stuff'. You are therefore forever a lessor mortal of dubious standard.
Just my $0.02 worth!
Quote from dmcleod "Ex-RAAF pilots are kept on a reserve list and are given hours to keep current incase they are ever needed, ie. if we went to war."
A lot of people seem to forget - we are at war.
A lot of people seem to forget - we are at war.
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Anyone have info on how USAF train ANG pilots?
I understand there is a very different flying culture in the US, but if they can train a civilian pilot to fly tactical operations then I don't see why there should be any issue of standards here (economies of scale in the training system notwithstanding).
I strongly agree with Keg here - being ex-military (non-aircrew) with lots of experience that would be valuable (as well as flight qualifications), I would love to be able to contribute to the ADF. You would think in the current employment environment there would be a heavy push to get the most out of the available labour force and push PAF towards "sharp end" flying.
Sadly, despite recruiting being a major issue for defence over the last 10 years, they continue to employ civilian recruiting agencies which are not necessarily "First XI". On enquiring about a RAAF reserve (non-aircrew position), I was bounced between numerous "recruiters", left a number of phone messages etc before giving up in disgust. I felt like ringing up Angus and saying - "No worries - you blokes must be flush if you can't even be bothered calling a guy back who has almost 15 years experience and is willing to put on the uniform again!"
Guess I'll just have to keep ironing white shirts instead ...
I understand there is a very different flying culture in the US, but if they can train a civilian pilot to fly tactical operations then I don't see why there should be any issue of standards here (economies of scale in the training system notwithstanding).
I strongly agree with Keg here - being ex-military (non-aircrew) with lots of experience that would be valuable (as well as flight qualifications), I would love to be able to contribute to the ADF. You would think in the current employment environment there would be a heavy push to get the most out of the available labour force and push PAF towards "sharp end" flying.
Sadly, despite recruiting being a major issue for defence over the last 10 years, they continue to employ civilian recruiting agencies which are not necessarily "First XI". On enquiring about a RAAF reserve (non-aircrew position), I was bounced between numerous "recruiters", left a number of phone messages etc before giving up in disgust. I felt like ringing up Angus and saying - "No worries - you blokes must be flush if you can't even be bothered calling a guy back who has almost 15 years experience and is willing to put on the uniform again!"
Guess I'll just have to keep ironing white shirts instead ...
Using non-military trained aircrew in military aircraft could work, as Keg points out, on the aircraft types and operations that are similar to civvy ops, eg non-tactical transport, and they could probably cross over into the more specialised roles for the big jet types, like tanking, with appropriate standardisation training.
As far as the 'training from scratch' thing goes, military pilots are trained in a very standardised way, from scans for visual and instrument flying, circuit techniques, base and finals technique, terminology, right through to the specialised things like formation, aeros, low tac nav, max performance turning and manouevering on the buffet, and so on. You pretty much know what you're getting from someone who's been through the sausage machine.
Later stuff like conversion courses, NVG etc use this standardised product as a start point, which is a valuable thing for efficiency.
The military pilot has also been through a lot of pre-course psychological and aptitude testing which, while not infallible, also adds to the tested and standardised nature of the end product.
Taking people who haven't been through this training into the system introduces unknowns which may not show up immediately, and may not even cause problems, but at the very least will require rigorous testing and standardisation training be applied to ensure all pilots can be considered roughly equal in terms of what they can and can't be expected to do.
I've seen very experienced GA pilots have lots of problems on military pilots' courses, in some cases not making it through, because of a) having well-established habits that don't gel with the military way of doing things, and b) doing well up until the parts of the course they've never encountered before, (eg formation) and finding it too difficult.
This isn't to say that happens to everyone - some people adapt very well - or that it can't be done, but it's not as simple or inexpensive as it may appear at first inspection.
As far as the 'training from scratch' thing goes, military pilots are trained in a very standardised way, from scans for visual and instrument flying, circuit techniques, base and finals technique, terminology, right through to the specialised things like formation, aeros, low tac nav, max performance turning and manouevering on the buffet, and so on. You pretty much know what you're getting from someone who's been through the sausage machine.
Later stuff like conversion courses, NVG etc use this standardised product as a start point, which is a valuable thing for efficiency.
The military pilot has also been through a lot of pre-course psychological and aptitude testing which, while not infallible, also adds to the tested and standardised nature of the end product.
Taking people who haven't been through this training into the system introduces unknowns which may not show up immediately, and may not even cause problems, but at the very least will require rigorous testing and standardisation training be applied to ensure all pilots can be considered roughly equal in terms of what they can and can't be expected to do.
I've seen very experienced GA pilots have lots of problems on military pilots' courses, in some cases not making it through, because of a) having well-established habits that don't gel with the military way of doing things, and b) doing well up until the parts of the course they've never encountered before, (eg formation) and finding it too difficult.
This isn't to say that happens to everyone - some people adapt very well - or that it can't be done, but it's not as simple or inexpensive as it may appear at first inspection.
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'Anyone have info on how USAF train ANG pilots?'
The US Military Reserves and National Guard units are a mix of former active duty and those 'off the street'. Those directly recruited into these units go through the same initial training that active duty personnel do. Thus, like the RAAF there is no recognition of former civilian qualifications and they are effectively zero timed. Keep in mind too that comparing these squadrons with a RAAF active duty squadron; with only a few reserve personnel, is like comparing apples and oranges. The 'bogies' in these squadrons are usually the equivalent to senior FLTLTs/SQNLDRs and have flying jobs in the airlines. Thus if you are a civy; even high time, who walks in off the street you don't really have alot to offer.
The other side of this equation that hasn't been discussed is the lack of legislation in Oz that allows the ADF to effectively use reserves on overseas ops. The US has robust legislation that pretty well forces employers to release reserve personnel for extended periods eg. 6 months in the MEAO. In Oz there is legislation, but it is far weaker. You essentially rely on the good grace of your employer for any extended release. Whether any reserves with QF/DJ/JQetc have pressed to test and attempted this , I don't know. My gut feeling is that the culture of releasing airline pilots for full time reserve duty is probably not so robust, especially in the LCCs with their eye only on the mighty $.
The US Military Reserves and National Guard units are a mix of former active duty and those 'off the street'. Those directly recruited into these units go through the same initial training that active duty personnel do. Thus, like the RAAF there is no recognition of former civilian qualifications and they are effectively zero timed. Keep in mind too that comparing these squadrons with a RAAF active duty squadron; with only a few reserve personnel, is like comparing apples and oranges. The 'bogies' in these squadrons are usually the equivalent to senior FLTLTs/SQNLDRs and have flying jobs in the airlines. Thus if you are a civy; even high time, who walks in off the street you don't really have alot to offer.
The other side of this equation that hasn't been discussed is the lack of legislation in Oz that allows the ADF to effectively use reserves on overseas ops. The US has robust legislation that pretty well forces employers to release reserve personnel for extended periods eg. 6 months in the MEAO. In Oz there is legislation, but it is far weaker. You essentially rely on the good grace of your employer for any extended release. Whether any reserves with QF/DJ/JQetc have pressed to test and attempted this , I don't know. My gut feeling is that the culture of releasing airline pilots for full time reserve duty is probably not so robust, especially in the LCCs with their eye only on the mighty $.
Not much from civvy street is recognised in the ADF. If you own your own Landrover and have a civvy heavy vehicle drivers licence, you will still not be allowed to drive a LR, or any other military vehicle for that matter, in the military until you do the appropriate drivers course.
This is counter productive but it is the way the ADF 'works'.
PS2A,
Assuming flying A330s is your day job; why do you want to do the same thing, in a different uniform and presumably for less pay, on your time off?
This is counter productive but it is the way the ADF 'works'.
PS2A,
Assuming flying A330s is your day job; why do you want to do the same thing, in a different uniform and presumably for less pay, on your time off?
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Keg, you make some good points. However:
34 isn't exactly a unit that offers predictable rostering, or clearly defined & finite tasks. I doubt that throwing airline types into the mix would work for either party.
There is no reason why the 34SQN operation couldn't survive on a cadre of permanent personnel with the remainder of it's crew being drawn from an extensive- and probably far more current- reserve network.
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As I stated before, Virgin Blue have been training RAAF Pilots for VIP 34 Sqn and AWACS with civilian instructors (Check and Training Captains) teaching and checking the RAAF how to fly the B737NG. This training as I understand was done on normal routes with members of the public onboard. Interesting, did the RAAF Pilots have to have an ATPL and Civilian Instrument Rating? I suppose they did, seeing they were flying civil aircraft with civilian passengers. They tell me that Virgin Blue have from an ex-Group Captain down. Did RAAF pay for endorsement and line training and did they then resign? Come to think of it, with the DFRDB and Pay, you wouldn't be on a bad wicket!
So, why not consider Pilot's endorsed on the B737NG from Qantas and Virgin Blue and in the future the A330 to fly these aircraft operated by the RAAF? Providing the person is endorsed on the aircraft, does regular sim checks and is line checked there should't be a great problem. They should be restricted to the endorsed aircraft type and not join to fly fighters, maritime etc or be planning any aeros or formation flying.
I believe it is this "us' and "them" thing which it was when I was in the ADF. For a start, DCA as it then was, would only give a Military Pliot a Commercial Licence after doing the Air Leg Exam and no Instrument Rating. The military had the old "green and "white" card Instrument Rating then. Sure, civilian pilots don't do aeros or formation and the Instructor Rating is much better in the military than the civilian. When I was in the ADF, you had to have done two tours of duty with a Squadron before you were considered for QFI training at CFS and you then had to go to either 1FTS or 2FTS before going back to an RAAF OCU or Navy OFS. The Airlines are of a similar view. You must have airline experience on the type and don't have to have a civilian instructor rating to instruct on airline aircraft. It is who the company thinks is fit to do the job. I, personally think that before a person can apply for a civilian instructor rating they should have at least 700 hours , like the UK.
But, in my time s Military Pilot had to do his Senior Commercial (SCPL), now ATPL and get an civilian Instrument Rating. This was ridiculous when RAAF Pilots had been flying aircraft well above 5700KG.
And, so it goes on we require this and we require that. Come to think of it, a fair percentage of Examiners of Airmen are ex-military, so why don't they do something about these stupid rules. Similarly, why don't the RAAF do something to about there's? It reminds you of the old Surgeon. Because he had to work long hours, so should the younger Doctors.
A mate of mine was instructing at 2FTS and attended an Instructors meeting once. He said that Instructors in his time, said it was great when they had a 50% failure rate. He said they should be aiming for 100% Pass Rate and if they couldn't achieve it, there must be something wrong with the recruiting system. He got frowned upon for saying what he did. That says it all!
So, why not consider Pilot's endorsed on the B737NG from Qantas and Virgin Blue and in the future the A330 to fly these aircraft operated by the RAAF? Providing the person is endorsed on the aircraft, does regular sim checks and is line checked there should't be a great problem. They should be restricted to the endorsed aircraft type and not join to fly fighters, maritime etc or be planning any aeros or formation flying.
I believe it is this "us' and "them" thing which it was when I was in the ADF. For a start, DCA as it then was, would only give a Military Pliot a Commercial Licence after doing the Air Leg Exam and no Instrument Rating. The military had the old "green and "white" card Instrument Rating then. Sure, civilian pilots don't do aeros or formation and the Instructor Rating is much better in the military than the civilian. When I was in the ADF, you had to have done two tours of duty with a Squadron before you were considered for QFI training at CFS and you then had to go to either 1FTS or 2FTS before going back to an RAAF OCU or Navy OFS. The Airlines are of a similar view. You must have airline experience on the type and don't have to have a civilian instructor rating to instruct on airline aircraft. It is who the company thinks is fit to do the job. I, personally think that before a person can apply for a civilian instructor rating they should have at least 700 hours , like the UK.
But, in my time s Military Pilot had to do his Senior Commercial (SCPL), now ATPL and get an civilian Instrument Rating. This was ridiculous when RAAF Pilots had been flying aircraft well above 5700KG.
And, so it goes on we require this and we require that. Come to think of it, a fair percentage of Examiners of Airmen are ex-military, so why don't they do something about these stupid rules. Similarly, why don't the RAAF do something to about there's? It reminds you of the old Surgeon. Because he had to work long hours, so should the younger Doctors.
A mate of mine was instructing at 2FTS and attended an Instructors meeting once. He said that Instructors in his time, said it was great when they had a 50% failure rate. He said they should be aiming for 100% Pass Rate and if they couldn't achieve it, there must be something wrong with the recruiting system. He got frowned upon for saying what he did. That says it all!