AirNZ Academy
Join Date: Apr 2007
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I think CTC's been sniffing around....I think they've been developing a CRM course for Eagle??
The airline has contracted a UK based company, CTC Aviation to provide training to both new recruits and Flight Service Managers.
"CTC specialises in aircrew training and their instructors are qualified in Crew Resource Management, a qualification approved by the UK Civil Aviation authority," said Ed Sims, Group General Manager International Airline.
"The delivery of high standards of customer service is key to the success of Air New Zealand and our crew receive sound training in a number of fields.
Our relationship with CTC will enable us to have our London-based crew trained locally which is more efficient than using our training staff from Auckland and will reduce the costs of introducing the new service," he
said.
http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/about...cabin_crew.htm
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Ultimately AirNZ will want these cadets to be Captains so I wonder how those on multi crew licences will get the minimum requirements for an ATPL? 250 PIC for example.
S2K
Join Date: Nov 2003
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This is certainly an interesting move by Air NZ. They say the academy will help meet the shortage of pilots, but I find that hard to believe. Air New Zealand Jet group is hardly screaming out for guys, and even if they were there is always an excess of suitably qualified pilots around NZd to employ. A pilot shortage is definitley not the reason why they have set this up. As someone said in a previous post, by bringing their own pilots through they will be able to have better control over them (terms and conditions of employment will be tightned no doubt). This certainly doesnt look good for guys trying to get into AirNZ from regionals and GA etc. Im sure requirements will become more stringent and specific. Aviation is heading down the road where airlines percieve management as being more important than manipulative skills. I guess this is somewhat justfied with the advancement in more automated aircraft such as the 777 and more specifically the 787. Requirements for employment are already leaning towards management qualifications and I think we will see more of this in the future.
Im still a believer though that you cant beat good experience, and thats where airlines will suffer by introducing cadet type systems like this.
Im still a believer though that you cant beat good experience, and thats where airlines will suffer by introducing cadet type systems like this.
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SKY SURFIN
This is exactly my point, I'm not really one of dooms day people but this doesn't look good. Looks more like a way to control the union
KOMAC2
You tried to answers one of my questions but where way off. Where are the cadets entering Air NZ? Eagle, Nelson, Cook or Jets????? I can only imagine how those you have applications in with mainline will feel being skipped by a 250 hour cadet.
This whole thing is shaping up to be a brilliant stuff up unless thought through properly.
As for staff moral and being an "Air New Zealander", this will see all moral and good will vanish unless they respect there current staff and lay it all out on the table.
Lets hope they do that
This is exactly my point, I'm not really one of dooms day people but this doesn't look good. Looks more like a way to control the union
KOMAC2
You tried to answers one of my questions but where way off. Where are the cadets entering Air NZ? Eagle, Nelson, Cook or Jets????? I can only imagine how those you have applications in with mainline will feel being skipped by a 250 hour cadet.
This whole thing is shaping up to be a brilliant stuff up unless thought through properly.
As for staff moral and being an "Air New Zealander", this will see all moral and good will vanish unless they respect there current staff and lay it all out on the table.
Lets hope they do that
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Hanz Bliz. I agree with you there, it would seem very 'unfair' to those guys applying to mainline to be overtaken by a cadet with a tenth of your experience.
I just hope this does not really disadvantage people in GA right now, working hard and building up time to apply to Link or mainline in a few years.
I understand that NZ would only pick the best of the best for their courses, but I'm sure many will feel disheartened should it get to a situation where they have stuck around for a few years in GA and are suddenly told 'they may not be in contention'.
I'm talking about worse case scenario obviously and hopefully it will not get to that. As it has been pointed out in page one, they will still take qualified pilots, but I hope this doesnt stop.
I just hope this does not really disadvantage people in GA right now, working hard and building up time to apply to Link or mainline in a few years.
I understand that NZ would only pick the best of the best for their courses, but I'm sure many will feel disheartened should it get to a situation where they have stuck around for a few years in GA and are suddenly told 'they may not be in contention'.
I'm talking about worse case scenario obviously and hopefully it will not get to that. As it has been pointed out in page one, they will still take qualified pilots, but I hope this doesnt stop.
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I wonder what ALPAs stance on this is..
If some cadet is being paid F**k all at the cost of a second officer, some of the boys may put down their tools.
If Air NZ is allowed to do this, its just going to f**k it for everyone.
If some cadet is being paid F**k all at the cost of a second officer, some of the boys may put down their tools.
If Air NZ is allowed to do this, its just going to f**k it for everyone.
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Heard from a good source that at a recent AirnZ (Jet)Check captains meeting, the MPL issue was brought up and there is plenty of resistance about letting MPL's participate on their flight decks.
Also figures of 140 pilots/year for 4 or so years to come is what Air NZ is looking at in terms of recruiting.
Apparantly no Link training managers were involved in discussions about forming the Acadamy and how grad's would be integrated.
Will be interesting to see how it progresses.
S2K
Also figures of 140 pilots/year for 4 or so years to come is what Air NZ is looking at in terms of recruiting.
Apparantly no Link training managers were involved in discussions about forming the Acadamy and how grad's would be integrated.
Will be interesting to see how it progresses.
S2K
Air NZ are simply fishing - there's been little or no consultation with the Flight training providers, nor Links operators. I have to disagree with some of your sentiments on Cadets.It's a myth that some how they're not up to the job. With the correct training they're equal if not better than a DEP with lots of bad habbits and baggage from a 3 rd level TP operator. I would imagine the cadets would enter Air NZ via the Links and then progress onto mainline.
I would also not expect to see any Air NZ cadets for at least 2 yrs.
I would also not expect to see any Air NZ cadets for at least 2 yrs.
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With the correct training they're equal if not better than a DEP with lots of bad habbits and baggage from a 3 rd level TP operator. I would imagine the cadets would enter Air NZ via the Links and then progress onto mainline.
Sorry, I'm starting to sound like a airline pilot......
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crap ola
I'm with you Cypher, I was just waiting for someone to trot out that old "bad habits" line
What, exactly, propaganda do you mean by bad habits? I've posed this question before in another discussion and no one ever answered.....can't imagine why?
Nosey
What, exactly, propaganda do you mean by bad habits? I've posed this question before in another discussion and no one ever answered.....can't imagine why?
Nosey
Join Date: Apr 2007
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they came out with Air NZ academy on friday and put out this press release today(sunday).
Air New Zealand eyes flight cutbacks
By GARRY SHEERAN - Sunday Star Times | Sunday, 18 May 2008
Air New Zealand could be cutting back on the frequency of many long-haul routes by the year's end as the global airline industry braces itself for a downturn that could prove worse than the fallout from the September 11 attacks on New York.
Air New Zealand chief executive Rob Fyfe says high fuel prices and the malaise affecting the US airline industry which is now spreading to Asia-Pacific means "we are entering very difficult times financially".
"If demand starts to reduce, we can see by the end of this year aircraft having to be parked up on the ground," he says.
Already, seven US airlines have collapsed in the past four months.
But unlike 2001-02 when the national air carrier almost went broke Fyfe believes Air NZ is in great shape to weather the storm.
"To be honest, I am sitting here rubbing my hands, looking forward to what lies ahead," he says. "We couldn't be in better shape."
The airline had a cash surplus of more than $1 billion which would allow it to cope with market downturns, and was running a conservative balance sheet.
"We have got out of loss-making long-haul routes, and we are the market share leader on all those we now fly," he says.
"We also have no extra aircraft coming on stream so we are not going to be trying to load capacity into a soft market."
Fyfe also believes Air NZ's ability to survive will in large measure depend on a revolution he has been quietly driving within the airline itself since he became chief executive in 2005.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4552578a13.html
Air New Zealand eyes flight cutbacks
By GARRY SHEERAN - Sunday Star Times | Sunday, 18 May 2008
Air New Zealand could be cutting back on the frequency of many long-haul routes by the year's end as the global airline industry braces itself for a downturn that could prove worse than the fallout from the September 11 attacks on New York.
Air New Zealand chief executive Rob Fyfe says high fuel prices and the malaise affecting the US airline industry which is now spreading to Asia-Pacific means "we are entering very difficult times financially".
"If demand starts to reduce, we can see by the end of this year aircraft having to be parked up on the ground," he says.
Already, seven US airlines have collapsed in the past four months.
But unlike 2001-02 when the national air carrier almost went broke Fyfe believes Air NZ is in great shape to weather the storm.
"To be honest, I am sitting here rubbing my hands, looking forward to what lies ahead," he says. "We couldn't be in better shape."
The airline had a cash surplus of more than $1 billion which would allow it to cope with market downturns, and was running a conservative balance sheet.
"We have got out of loss-making long-haul routes, and we are the market share leader on all those we now fly," he says.
"We also have no extra aircraft coming on stream so we are not going to be trying to load capacity into a soft market."
Fyfe also believes Air NZ's ability to survive will in large measure depend on a revolution he has been quietly driving within the airline itself since he became chief executive in 2005.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4552578a13.html
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..Bad habits-rubbing up some grizzly old vet the wrong way on your first day. Making the coffee wrong..taking the wrong sandwiches..that sort of thing.
CRM..just a fancy pants, expensive and time consuming way of saying "don't be a dork in the cockpit"
CRM..just a fancy pants, expensive and time consuming way of saying "don't be a dork in the cockpit"
From the study produced by 4 people, 2 i can confirm are pilots (jet) for Air NZ, not sure on the other two.
Graduating students from the cadetship would move directly into the third seat of a wide-body air New Zealand jet to gain familiarity with the working of the multi-crew operation. Whilst in receipt of a TRAINING salary, these second officers would not be type-rated or be listed on the company seniority list. From there, they would be employed into the Air New Zealand Group as a first officer on the turbo-prop fleet and issued with a seniorty number.
For the cadets, their "return of service" would start at the point of employment as a first officer. If the airline had contributed to the cost of the training this return of service would be completed at a reduced salary, in order for the company recoup the financial cost of the training. It is envisaged that the cadetship programme will take three years to complete from the commencement of training to completion of year one as a second officer.
the study goes on to state that there will be one interview for all the Air Nz group and you end up on a combined seniorty list.
Graduating students from the cadetship would move directly into the third seat of a wide-body air New Zealand jet to gain familiarity with the working of the multi-crew operation. Whilst in receipt of a TRAINING salary, these second officers would not be type-rated or be listed on the company seniority list. From there, they would be employed into the Air New Zealand Group as a first officer on the turbo-prop fleet and issued with a seniorty number.
For the cadets, their "return of service" would start at the point of employment as a first officer. If the airline had contributed to the cost of the training this return of service would be completed at a reduced salary, in order for the company recoup the financial cost of the training. It is envisaged that the cadetship programme will take three years to complete from the commencement of training to completion of year one as a second officer.
the study goes on to state that there will be one interview for all the Air Nz group and you end up on a combined seniorty list.
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Sounds like the old days. Cadet S/O's who sat on their hands for a year or so, watching, listening and learning- only difference they were paid at the normal rates. 
Anymore on where these ab-initio cadets will be trained.
Anymore on where these ab-initio cadets will be trained.
Learn't more about the source of my information. It was completed by the pilots who are/were doing this Air NZ MBA type course on their days off. Find it interesting these pilots are doing the work of some beancounter to get an "Air NZ MBA" which no one else in the world would recognise. Then again, It is definately better them than employing another beancounter who adds no value to the company
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frf,
Have put in a application to join the Koru MBA course but it has been delayed twice due lack of interest, main reason was lack of real qualification at end of the tunnel. The scheme organisers delayed it 6 months in feb to get it into the NZQA framework so it may gain better buy in from the group pilots. Waiting til Aug to see if anything comes of it....
I've read the same report and was impressed with the options that were suggested. The cadetship and internship on the longhaul fleet before 1st turbo-prop assignment is right out of the report. Can't remember seeing the training pay thing but it's not an uncommon practice in the AirNZ group.
Extending the Group Opportunities list to the Links is another recommendation to try and gain some stability by giving all group pilots a more concrete career path/progression.
S2K
Have put in a application to join the Koru MBA course but it has been delayed twice due lack of interest, main reason was lack of real qualification at end of the tunnel. The scheme organisers delayed it 6 months in feb to get it into the NZQA framework so it may gain better buy in from the group pilots. Waiting til Aug to see if anything comes of it....
I've read the same report and was impressed with the options that were suggested. The cadetship and internship on the longhaul fleet before 1st turbo-prop assignment is right out of the report. Can't remember seeing the training pay thing but it's not an uncommon practice in the AirNZ group.
Extending the Group Opportunities list to the Links is another recommendation to try and gain some stability by giving all group pilots a more concrete career path/progression.
S2K
My two guesses about the makeup of the "academy" are this: It will be self funded, and there will be a room somewhere in the school, resembling a church. However instead of worshiping a false god (aren't they all?) you worship Captain Morgan and his merry bunch of sycophants including the likes of Chris K etc. There may even be a box of tissues so that you can have a quiet spank over the thought of one day getting to ride the back seat on one of those rare occasions the big M goes flying.
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waikato times can probably dream but anyway:
Air academy may take off in Waikato
The Waikato is being eyed by Air New Zealand as a possible site for a new aviation academy.
The facility, to be set up by the end of the year, would train pilots, cabin crew, engineers and specialist airline management staff.
Air New Zealand is scouting for locations and confirmed Waikato was one area it was looking at.
If it went ahead, it would be a major boost for the Waikato aviation industry, with up to 300 pilots and engineers going through each year.
Hamilton International Airport is an obvious regional location with aviation-related industry already established there, including major pilot trainer CTC Aviation.
Air New Zealand general manager airline operations and chief pilot David Morgan said the plan was to establish the academy in partnership with industry, offering people the ability to train at different locations around the country.
Airport chief executive Chris Doak said any discussion about establishing training facilities would be held between the airline and the training organisations on site.
Captain Morgan said the academy was being set up to ensure the steady flow of local talent into Air New Zealand and other airlines within the Asia Pacific region.
"The academy will form the basis of Air New Zealand's long-term commitment.''
As well as providing training for those starting out, Captain Morgan said the academy would provide support and training for staff moving through their careers, including aircraft type rating and simulator training.
He estimated the airline would need between 90 and 150 new pilots a year as the fleet grew.
Air New Zealand is in discussion with potential partners.
The Katolyst Group chief executive Graham Smith welcomed news Hamilton was among possible sites.
"It would definitely build on existing capabilities that are here now,'' Mr Smith said.
"We're making inquiries as to how we could facilitate that further. Certainly we're trying to speak to all the right people to advance the region.''
CTC Aviation New Zealand chief executive John Jones said "airspace troubles'' could be an issue, but those problems were not limited to Hamilton.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikatotimes/4554500a6004.html
Air academy may take off in Waikato
The Waikato is being eyed by Air New Zealand as a possible site for a new aviation academy.
The facility, to be set up by the end of the year, would train pilots, cabin crew, engineers and specialist airline management staff.
Air New Zealand is scouting for locations and confirmed Waikato was one area it was looking at.
If it went ahead, it would be a major boost for the Waikato aviation industry, with up to 300 pilots and engineers going through each year.
Hamilton International Airport is an obvious regional location with aviation-related industry already established there, including major pilot trainer CTC Aviation.
Air New Zealand general manager airline operations and chief pilot David Morgan said the plan was to establish the academy in partnership with industry, offering people the ability to train at different locations around the country.
Airport chief executive Chris Doak said any discussion about establishing training facilities would be held between the airline and the training organisations on site.
Captain Morgan said the academy was being set up to ensure the steady flow of local talent into Air New Zealand and other airlines within the Asia Pacific region.
"The academy will form the basis of Air New Zealand's long-term commitment.''
As well as providing training for those starting out, Captain Morgan said the academy would provide support and training for staff moving through their careers, including aircraft type rating and simulator training.
He estimated the airline would need between 90 and 150 new pilots a year as the fleet grew.
Air New Zealand is in discussion with potential partners.
The Katolyst Group chief executive Graham Smith welcomed news Hamilton was among possible sites.
"It would definitely build on existing capabilities that are here now,'' Mr Smith said.
"We're making inquiries as to how we could facilitate that further. Certainly we're trying to speak to all the right people to advance the region.''
CTC Aviation New Zealand chief executive John Jones said "airspace troubles'' could be an issue, but those problems were not limited to Hamilton.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikatotimes/4554500a6004.html