Merged: QANTAS/ALAEA EBA
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Nice sentiment Short Circuit
They don't care. Dixon is out for blood and he doesn't care how much he has to spend to achieve that goal.
Just look at what is happening in QANTAS Engineering, never mind the rest of the Departments. What boss would allow their company to get into a quarter of this mess without sacking the incompetent fool(s) responsible.
Cox and Harris still play God at the top with their army of YES MEN following on behind. It's a joke.
If any engineer performed his/her job in the same manner we would have been sacked on the spot.
Just look at what is happening in QANTAS Engineering, never mind the rest of the Departments. What boss would allow their company to get into a quarter of this mess without sacking the incompetent fool(s) responsible.
Cox and Harris still play God at the top with their army of YES MEN following on behind. It's a joke.
If any engineer performed his/her job in the same manner we would have been sacked on the spot.
Last edited by Silmarillion; 27th May 2008 at 05:45. Reason: forgot a title
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Working away from home
Why are engineers still willing to go to out stations and help this company in their hour of need??????????????????? It is beyond me.
Do they think the company will remember their good deed when the dust settles, I think not. So why help these greedy b@#t*@ds out
Surely the latest info from the union stated that Qantas can't guarantee a LAME a return flight home (within his shift time) and surely most of us should have the intelligence to just say NO!!!!
Do they think the company will remember their good deed when the dust settles, I think not. So why help these greedy b@#t*@ds out
Surely the latest info from the union stated that Qantas can't guarantee a LAME a return flight home (within his shift time) and surely most of us should have the intelligence to just say NO!!!!
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Call their bluff!
Come on members, let's be the first to blink. 
GD said no meeting because the union called stop works. Now it will be fair to assume that the union will do the right thing and call off these meetings.
I say let's call their bluff. have the stop works and let them do what they feel might be fair. This "game" will not end if neither party has the balls to make a move. I know the ot bans are hurting them, and in a week they will be begging, however let's just flex them ALAEA muscles a bit to show we mean it when we say: "Enough is enough!"
GD said no meeting because the union called stop works. Now it will be fair to assume that the union will do the right thing and call off these meetings.
I say let's call their bluff. have the stop works and let them do what they feel might be fair. This "game" will not end if neither party has the balls to make a move. I know the ot bans are hurting them, and in a week they will be begging, however let's just flex them ALAEA muscles a bit to show we mean it when we say: "Enough is enough!"
Gentlemen, you are approaching this whole issue the wrong way......
This isn't about you, its about Geoff Dixon. He has to grandstand to get the attention he craves.
Reason doesn't come into the equation at all.
This isn't about you, its about Geoff Dixon. He has to grandstand to get the attention he craves.
Reason doesn't come into the equation at all.
Call their bluff!
No need to me thinks.
We did the right thing and offered our labour(skeleton) whilst report back was held-They said 'NO'. No alternative then but stopwork,obviously they dont like that!
Meeting called off-OOPS,Mistake now realised.Better go back to having the meeting.
As we were told-ALAEA has the right to have PIA,we have made our decision and sticking to it,thats all we need to do for now.If the meeting goes ahead with ACTU prob not a bad thing but maybe right now someone(qf) can see that they need it to happen more than we do.
We did the right thing and offered our labour(skeleton) whilst report back was held-They said 'NO'. No alternative then but stopwork,obviously they dont like that!
Meeting called off-OOPS,Mistake now realised.Better go back to having the meeting.
As we were told-ALAEA has the right to have PIA,we have made our decision and sticking to it,thats all we need to do for now.If the meeting goes ahead with ACTU prob not a bad thing but maybe right now someone(qf) can see that they need it to happen more than we do.
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Regardless of anything else, we need a union meeting to discuss what has been going on over the last 18 months.
A simple notice will not suffice!
Geoff Dixon wants to play games, we want to resolve an 18 month old issue.
Lets meet, discuss and move forward despite Qantas' lack of commitment.
The ALAEA has deferred & deferred to save the travelling public any inconvenience
Geoff Dixon has done everything he can to provoke an escalation, I think we should avail him his wishes on the public & shareholders.
Be it on HIS head!!!!!!!!!
A simple notice will not suffice!
Geoff Dixon wants to play games, we want to resolve an 18 month old issue.
Lets meet, discuss and move forward despite Qantas' lack of commitment.
The ALAEA has deferred & deferred to save the travelling public any inconvenience
Geoff Dixon has done everything he can to provoke an escalation, I think we should avail him his wishes on the public & shareholders.
Be it on HIS head!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by Short_Circuit; 27th May 2008 at 08:57.
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Dixon Says no Negotiation
The ALAEA and ACTU were advised yesterday that the Qantas CEO would not meet with us this week due to planned stop work meetings. I met with ACTU Secretary Jeff Lawrence yesterday and explained the events of late last week with our offer to the airline to provide short sanctioned feedback meetings with no disruption to services. I also explained that Qantas did not even have the decency to reply to the ALAEA request and therefore we had no option other than to provide the much needed feedback at stop work meetings. The ACTU were 100% supportive of our position.
It was suggested to me in a member email that we should consider withdrawing the gun we have at Qantas’s head to facilitate meetings. It must be highlighted that we have continuously postponed action to suit Qantas and every time we do the right thing they return to the table with nothing. Qantas on the other hand think it is ok to continually hold a gun to LAMEs heads with constant threats of outsourcing to overseas facilities. The meetings two weeks ago were postponed to hold urgent meetings and I was advised that Mr Dixon could not make time for us last week because the CEO was heading overseas. This time, our members will not make time by further postponements for Mr Dixon and our stop work meetings will proceed.
Stop Work Meeting Information
Venues are now being booked and will be advised in due course. Members who are on sick leave over the periods of the stop work meeting should not be docked 4 hours pay as they will not have taken Protected Industrial Action. Members not rostered for duty are more than welcome to attend the venues to take part in the meetings. All levels of Qantas LAME are directed to leave their workplace on the time designated for their port. This includes LAMEs, Seniors, DMMs and Maintenance Watch members.
Any member who chooses to ignore the democratic process by staying at work may be openly invited to explain their actions at a subsequent ALAEA Federal Executive meeting. The invitations and minutes will be made public. Two members have resigned in the past month and openly declared that they will continue to work during legally sanctioned stop work meetings. In both cases, the individual’s membership remains in place until their resignations are processed at the next Executive meeting. The two members who are in the process of resigning are still bound by the ALAEA rules and should continue to follow ALAEA directions.
Qantas Tech Salaried Staff
The ALAEA have advised Qantas that our members covered by the Tech Salaried Staff Agreement are now in a formal bargaining period. This Agreement covers a number of Qantas members employed as Engineering Instructors, NDT specialists, Maintenance Schedulers, Tech Officers, Flight Data Analysts, Flight Training officers etc. The formal bargaining period is the first step before a Protected Industrial Action ballot to secure a better EBA outcome.
Forstaff EBA
The ALAEA has been faxed a copy of a management notice issued yesterday in which we have been attacked for considering Protected Industrial Action for Forstaff members. The ALAEA would like to affirm the management position and agree that only ALAEA members will be able to take part in any future Protected Action unless the other unions adopt the same approach. We have invited other Forstaff Avalon unions to join us so we can stand together to ensure that a real wages outcome is attained. At this stage Forstaff have offered 3% per annum which in real terms is a wages cut. It is our view that all members are entitled to an economic adjustment to reflect inflation and additional amounts due to productivity.
Members are also reminded that the example (250) ALAEA membership at Avalon used by management is incorrect. Our membership is closer to 400 and more than half the total number of employees at Forstaff. The ALAEA does not only cover LAMEs, all categories of employees can join the ALAEA including AMEs, Utilities staff, Planners, Administrative staff and Workshop personnel.
Working to Rule
Members should now as always be working strictly to the Qantas policy and procedures even when aircraft departure times are approaching. We have been sent a number of log coupons and reports both verbal and written that indicate to us that Qantas management may be placing schedule before safety and rules may have been bent to dampen the impact of overtime restrictions. We have been reporting breaches to CASA that include, aircraft flying with unactioned defects from major ports, aircraft leaving unmanned ports with mandatory maintenance inspections unsigned or actioned, management pressure to amend form 500 reports and re-application of failed Engineering Authorities. If you are being pressured to make decisions and feel uncomfortable, take 5, review your steps thus far and do not watch your clock when you work. Members should continue to report incidents on official company paperwork and to the ALAEA who are now in contact with CASA on a daily basis.
The ALAEA and ACTU were advised yesterday that the Qantas CEO would not meet with us this week due to planned stop work meetings. I met with ACTU Secretary Jeff Lawrence yesterday and explained the events of late last week with our offer to the airline to provide short sanctioned feedback meetings with no disruption to services. I also explained that Qantas did not even have the decency to reply to the ALAEA request and therefore we had no option other than to provide the much needed feedback at stop work meetings. The ACTU were 100% supportive of our position.
It was suggested to me in a member email that we should consider withdrawing the gun we have at Qantas’s head to facilitate meetings. It must be highlighted that we have continuously postponed action to suit Qantas and every time we do the right thing they return to the table with nothing. Qantas on the other hand think it is ok to continually hold a gun to LAMEs heads with constant threats of outsourcing to overseas facilities. The meetings two weeks ago were postponed to hold urgent meetings and I was advised that Mr Dixon could not make time for us last week because the CEO was heading overseas. This time, our members will not make time by further postponements for Mr Dixon and our stop work meetings will proceed.
Stop Work Meeting Information
Venues are now being booked and will be advised in due course. Members who are on sick leave over the periods of the stop work meeting should not be docked 4 hours pay as they will not have taken Protected Industrial Action. Members not rostered for duty are more than welcome to attend the venues to take part in the meetings. All levels of Qantas LAME are directed to leave their workplace on the time designated for their port. This includes LAMEs, Seniors, DMMs and Maintenance Watch members.
Any member who chooses to ignore the democratic process by staying at work may be openly invited to explain their actions at a subsequent ALAEA Federal Executive meeting. The invitations and minutes will be made public. Two members have resigned in the past month and openly declared that they will continue to work during legally sanctioned stop work meetings. In both cases, the individual’s membership remains in place until their resignations are processed at the next Executive meeting. The two members who are in the process of resigning are still bound by the ALAEA rules and should continue to follow ALAEA directions.
Qantas Tech Salaried Staff
The ALAEA have advised Qantas that our members covered by the Tech Salaried Staff Agreement are now in a formal bargaining period. This Agreement covers a number of Qantas members employed as Engineering Instructors, NDT specialists, Maintenance Schedulers, Tech Officers, Flight Data Analysts, Flight Training officers etc. The formal bargaining period is the first step before a Protected Industrial Action ballot to secure a better EBA outcome.
Forstaff EBA
The ALAEA has been faxed a copy of a management notice issued yesterday in which we have been attacked for considering Protected Industrial Action for Forstaff members. The ALAEA would like to affirm the management position and agree that only ALAEA members will be able to take part in any future Protected Action unless the other unions adopt the same approach. We have invited other Forstaff Avalon unions to join us so we can stand together to ensure that a real wages outcome is attained. At this stage Forstaff have offered 3% per annum which in real terms is a wages cut. It is our view that all members are entitled to an economic adjustment to reflect inflation and additional amounts due to productivity.
Members are also reminded that the example (250) ALAEA membership at Avalon used by management is incorrect. Our membership is closer to 400 and more than half the total number of employees at Forstaff. The ALAEA does not only cover LAMEs, all categories of employees can join the ALAEA including AMEs, Utilities staff, Planners, Administrative staff and Workshop personnel.
Working to Rule
Members should now as always be working strictly to the Qantas policy and procedures even when aircraft departure times are approaching. We have been sent a number of log coupons and reports both verbal and written that indicate to us that Qantas management may be placing schedule before safety and rules may have been bent to dampen the impact of overtime restrictions. We have been reporting breaches to CASA that include, aircraft flying with unactioned defects from major ports, aircraft leaving unmanned ports with mandatory maintenance inspections unsigned or actioned, management pressure to amend form 500 reports and re-application of failed Engineering Authorities. If you are being pressured to make decisions and feel uncomfortable, take 5, review your steps thus far and do not watch your clock when you work. Members should continue to report incidents on official company paperwork and to the ALAEA who are now in contact with CASA on a daily basis.
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Its About Time
Well Guys,
I have to say its about bloody time we got serious with QF
and I applaud SP with his decision regarding 4hr stop work meeting.
How many times has the company taken the line that they will not
talk to us if we are taking any form of action, so we do the right thing
and call off any action and then the company offers either nothing or
exactly the same as before.
Just the old QF tactic of stall, stall stall!!
It is time to sit these clowns on the deck!
We tried to talk and all they do is lie to us. Management statements like
"no one from the ACTU has contacted us" (in regards to a meeting) or
Dixon won't meet with the ALAEA because they are planning a stop
work meeting
What bull**** is this!
The 4hr stop work meetings are because they wont let us have a
1hrs meeting with skelliton crews.
They seem to think that there tactic of stalling us as long as
possible is going to work ,well guess again.
Sunfish is correct, it is all about Dixon. He truly is just looking for
the fight now.
This man has been waging his own personnel vendetta against his
staff for years.
His tactic is lie to them, threaten them, keep them
in fear of their jobs and they will be easy to handle.
Sure along the way there will need to be a few sacrifices, just enough
to make your threats look real.
Oh and he is a vindictive bastard as well.
A few years ago the FAAA nearly took action so he got back at them by setting up the LHR and AKL cabin crew bases
( i think BKK was already up and running)
Well enough is enough!
It is time we dictate the timing of meetings.
Don't ask them to talk. They know where the Bexley office is.
Take action but don't ask them for a meeting.
Make them approach us to talk!
They will soon want to talk when their LAME's are
walking out the gate.
Our CEO places more importance in his trip to london than
the impending grounding of his fleet.
At least this way they may bring something more
than rhetoric and empty promises to the table.
I suggest that we take a staggered 4hr stop work meetings this week
then next week we take 4hr stop work meetings all at the same time
during peak times and then look at 48hr stoppages
If management want to play this way I say bring it on
Its time to stand up to this bully!
Look at how we are operating at the moment. This place
is so disfunctional that we really will be lucky to survive.
When was the last time management made a decision that
streamlined the way we do things? I can't think of one.
All that happens is that we get snowed under with crap,
and you know why that is? Its because they have no f**king
idea what they are doing and they will not listen to the
people that do.
They constantly need to "engage the workforce" because with out us
pulling them out of the **** on a daily basis this place
would go down faster than the Hindenberg.
Oh guess what, It is!!!!!
Now for all those believers out there,
If QF get there LAME less tarmac or the B1/B2 thing happens
you will find yourself out of a job or with an A license (on appropriate pay)
so fast your head will spin. And if you think that "QF will
do the right thing and look after me" you are having yourself on!!
I suggest you go find an ex syd heavy bloke and talk to them
about it because they may have a different view to you.
Remember the money they don't spend paying you goes
into bonuses for them
To the people who have decided to leave the assn and jump
in bed with management, I suggest you have a real hard think
about what you are doing. People don't forget stuff like that
and whatever short term gain you think you are getting will
follow you for the rest of your career. You will be looking
for a whole new set of workmates and the ones you are
choosing may not survive this,
Remember when this is done and dusted middle management are going to pay a heavy price for all the lies they passed on to senior management .
**** flows down hill and I would not be suprised if M and DC were
looking for a new employer.
Then who is going to look after you?
So as I see it we need to stand up to these clowns before
it becomes a totally fragmented, dissfunctional, inefficient
and more importantly, unsustainable mess.
And guess what, that point is not very far off
So SP well done.
I for one am sick and tired of having QF hold a gun to my head
Its time we fired a few shots of our own.
I have to say its about bloody time we got serious with QF
and I applaud SP with his decision regarding 4hr stop work meeting.
How many times has the company taken the line that they will not
talk to us if we are taking any form of action, so we do the right thing
and call off any action and then the company offers either nothing or
exactly the same as before.
Just the old QF tactic of stall, stall stall!!
It is time to sit these clowns on the deck!
We tried to talk and all they do is lie to us. Management statements like
"no one from the ACTU has contacted us" (in regards to a meeting) or
Dixon won't meet with the ALAEA because they are planning a stop
work meeting
What bull**** is this!
The 4hr stop work meetings are because they wont let us have a
1hrs meeting with skelliton crews.
They seem to think that there tactic of stalling us as long as
possible is going to work ,well guess again.
Sunfish is correct, it is all about Dixon. He truly is just looking for
the fight now.
This man has been waging his own personnel vendetta against his
staff for years.
His tactic is lie to them, threaten them, keep them
in fear of their jobs and they will be easy to handle.
Sure along the way there will need to be a few sacrifices, just enough
to make your threats look real.
Oh and he is a vindictive bastard as well.
A few years ago the FAAA nearly took action so he got back at them by setting up the LHR and AKL cabin crew bases
( i think BKK was already up and running)
Well enough is enough!
It is time we dictate the timing of meetings.
Don't ask them to talk. They know where the Bexley office is.
Take action but don't ask them for a meeting.
Make them approach us to talk!
They will soon want to talk when their LAME's are
walking out the gate.
Our CEO places more importance in his trip to london than
the impending grounding of his fleet.
At least this way they may bring something more
than rhetoric and empty promises to the table.
I suggest that we take a staggered 4hr stop work meetings this week
then next week we take 4hr stop work meetings all at the same time
during peak times and then look at 48hr stoppages
If management want to play this way I say bring it on
Its time to stand up to this bully!
Look at how we are operating at the moment. This place
is so disfunctional that we really will be lucky to survive.
When was the last time management made a decision that
streamlined the way we do things? I can't think of one.
All that happens is that we get snowed under with crap,
and you know why that is? Its because they have no f**king
idea what they are doing and they will not listen to the
people that do.
They constantly need to "engage the workforce" because with out us
pulling them out of the **** on a daily basis this place
would go down faster than the Hindenberg.
Oh guess what, It is!!!!!
Now for all those believers out there,
If QF get there LAME less tarmac or the B1/B2 thing happens
you will find yourself out of a job or with an A license (on appropriate pay)
so fast your head will spin. And if you think that "QF will
do the right thing and look after me" you are having yourself on!!
I suggest you go find an ex syd heavy bloke and talk to them
about it because they may have a different view to you.
Remember the money they don't spend paying you goes
into bonuses for them
To the people who have decided to leave the assn and jump
in bed with management, I suggest you have a real hard think
about what you are doing. People don't forget stuff like that
and whatever short term gain you think you are getting will
follow you for the rest of your career. You will be looking
for a whole new set of workmates and the ones you are
choosing may not survive this,
Remember when this is done and dusted middle management are going to pay a heavy price for all the lies they passed on to senior management .
**** flows down hill and I would not be suprised if M and DC were
looking for a new employer.
Then who is going to look after you?
So as I see it we need to stand up to these clowns before
it becomes a totally fragmented, dissfunctional, inefficient
and more importantly, unsustainable mess.
And guess what, that point is not very far off
So SP well done.
I for one am sick and tired of having QF hold a gun to my head
Its time we fired a few shots of our own.
Last edited by acslame; 27th May 2008 at 10:27.
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Originally Posted by The Masked Goatrider
News just in from and old friend. Qf 5 canx, 380 pax off to the hotel. At least it won't show up as a delay.
Stopwork meetings off, meeting with Dixon back on.
News just in from and old friend. Qf 5 canx, 380 pax off to the hotel. At least it won't show up as a delay.
Stopwork meetings off, meeting with Dixon back on.
Sorry, my bad.
Apologies to any Qantas manager or consultant that thinks I am an asn official if you got totally confused by the incorrect message posted by me on this anonymous rumour network yesterday. I hope you weren’t sitting by the phone all day waiting for the news that the stop work meetings would be called off. Apologies also to the strikebreakers who are being rooted around with the constant changes in plans. Looks like you will get a real run on Thursday, just wondering who will be the “picture boy of scabs” making appearances in newspapers across the country. There will be one.
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PS
2 DMM at SYD Base ACS have pledged allegiance with Strike Breaker Force 1.
Crush Those Young LAME's. they said,
Credibility, goooooone..
Do you want to play a game (Dr Falcon)?
Oh, Yes Please!
GlobalThermonuclear War?
No, EBA VIII ... !!!
2 DMM at SYD Base ACS have pledged allegiance with Strike Breaker Force 1.
Crush Those Young LAME's. they said,
Credibility, goooooone..
Do you want to play a game (Dr Falcon)?
Oh, Yes Please!
GlobalThermonuclear War?
No, EBA VIII ... !!!
Last edited by Short_Circuit; 27th May 2008 at 23:22.
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Bring it on.
It is time action started hard and fast. Qantas have no regard for safety, passengers or dispatch reliability. They have proved this consistenly over the last 24 months. This is where overtime bans have their shortcomings.
The only thing Qantas has regard for is dollars. Work stoppages is the only way we can hurt their bottom line and bring them back to the bargaining table. It needs to be hard and fast. Trying to increase a backload of work to force CASA to step in is unrealistic. CASA are probably trying to find a hiding place right now while mummy and daddy are fighting.
It only takes $100 mil to create a 10% profit downgrade, (though I am sure QF has this put aside for special times like these). But the market does not take too kindly to downgrades this size. Neither do share holders, and ultimately, the board.
It is time action started hard and fast. Qantas have no regard for safety, passengers or dispatch reliability. They have proved this consistenly over the last 24 months. This is where overtime bans have their shortcomings.
The only thing Qantas has regard for is dollars. Work stoppages is the only way we can hurt their bottom line and bring them back to the bargaining table. It needs to be hard and fast. Trying to increase a backload of work to force CASA to step in is unrealistic. CASA are probably trying to find a hiding place right now while mummy and daddy are fighting.
It only takes $100 mil to create a 10% profit downgrade, (though I am sure QF has this put aside for special times like these). But the market does not take too kindly to downgrades this size. Neither do share holders, and ultimately, the board.
Last edited by Ngineer; 27th May 2008 at 10:14.
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Agree asclame. Lets take the fight to them properly. They wont negotiate while we have action on but thats no different to the previous 18 months when they haven't negotiated anyway. At least we're finally standing up and saying loud and clear that enough is enough.
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From acslame
It's because they have no idea what you as LAMEs do that will bring them unstuck
Its because they have no f**king
idea what they are doing and they will not listen to the
people that do.
idea what they are doing and they will not listen to the
people that do.
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a few thoughts
when we do stop work would Casa treat the mighty Q like it did Virgin??? ie that is you dont have enough Lames park those planes boys???
And ACS Lame you are 100% correct in that they have no idea.
Every day I just smile as I let that APU turn and burn at least a 1000kg.
You think youre winning Geoff but those shareholder dividends are going up in vapour.
Everyday because of your team of management sycophants that have done more for qantas than any bloody union I just think of how miserable you are as I listen and smell that sweet jet A1 being burnt.
You have no idea but then again pride comes before a fall!!!
when we do stop work would Casa treat the mighty Q like it did Virgin??? ie that is you dont have enough Lames park those planes boys???
And ACS Lame you are 100% correct in that they have no idea.
Every day I just smile as I let that APU turn and burn at least a 1000kg.
You think youre winning Geoff but those shareholder dividends are going up in vapour.
Everyday because of your team of management sycophants that have done more for qantas than any bloody union I just think of how miserable you are as I listen and smell that sweet jet A1 being burnt.
You have no idea but then again pride comes before a fall!!!
Last edited by Ragnar Benson; 27th May 2008 at 10:08. Reason: typo
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Good luck guys with your feedback meeting. I hope it wakes up those imbecile managers in the place. It would be great to see Qf actually start adding to the ranks of their engineers instead of running them into the ground.
Hopefully this will also bring much more high level publicity to the cause and make Jeff Dikkhead face the shareholders he loves so dearly and explain his actions
Hopefully this will also bring much more high level publicity to the cause and make Jeff Dikkhead face the shareholders he loves so dearly and explain his actions
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Do you want to play a game (Dr Falcon)?
Oh, Yes Please!
World Thermonuclear War?
No, EBA VIII ... !!!
Oh, Yes Please!
World Thermonuclear War?
No, EBA VIII ... !!!
Are you on the sauce.
Looks like the company has "escalated" PIA.
Here we go.
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Bloody hot in these aluminium tubes sitting out in the sun all day,
maybe we should start the APU and put the aircon on like when Dicko sits on the ship!
Oh, but he flies BA.
maybe we should start the APU and put the aircon on like when Dicko sits on the ship!
Oh, but he flies BA.