Merged: QANTAS/ALAEA EBA
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Because Dixon & Co wanted to beat the LAMEs at any cost (hundreds of million of dollars in fact) but with only a few 4 hour
stop work meetings and no overtime all management got was years of backlog work which will be a burden to QANTAS for many years to come.
The outcome was that LAMEs proved their worth, diligence and highlighted the incompetence of the managers running the place.
Win - win for LAMEs
Loose - loose for management.
stop work meetings and no overtime all management got was years of backlog work which will be a burden to QANTAS for many years to come.
The outcome was that LAMEs proved their worth, diligence and highlighted the incompetence of the managers running the place.
Win - win for LAMEs
Loose - loose for management.
Let's put it another way
Because LAMEs wanted to beat their own company at any cost (hundreds of million of dollars in fact) but with only a few 4 hour
stop work meetings and no overtime all their own company got was years of backlog work which will be a burden to b]their company[/b] for many years to come.
stop work meetings and no overtime all their own company got was years of backlog work which will be a burden to b]their company[/b] for many years to come.
The logic in this thread is astounding. When you see money flowing in it's money you earnt and deserve a share of. When the money is flowing out it's management's money flowing out.
If you claim you are a "stakeholder" in the company (when times are good) and deserve money, how on earth do you justify that you shouldn't be a stakeholder in the loss?
The outcome was that LAMEs proved their lack of interest in the company, selfishness and highlighted the fact that despite their claims they are not true stakeholder in the company
Fair weather stakeholders...
Fair weather stakeholders...
Times are good:
"Cool, profits, money please"
Times are bad:
"Umm.. pay me money please even if it means you'll make a larger loss"
MY suggestion:
IF you want no redundancies :
Keep working
If the company goes broke you lose all your entitlements / money.
Last edited by ElPerro; 17th Apr 2009 at 09:27.
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This message is hidden because ElPerro is on your ignore list.
Damn :-(
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so far no LAME has lost his or her job in fact there are some still awaiting redundancy from the last round offered.That time will likely come but it will not be because of a pay claim. LAMEs have been made redundant before and will again .When that happens so be it.
Numerous managers have lost their jobs or decided to "pursue other interests" retire etc largely as they lost a fight they could not win as they thought the engineers would rollover, they'd be able to employ enough people as an "alternate workforce" and that stopping O/T would not hurt them.
Wrong on all counts.
Qantas chose the path they took and set aside hundreds of millions to fight it.Their choice and responsibility alone.
Dixon and co stuffed up big time, started a war with the wrong weapons and in the end paid what the engineers politely asked for in round one.
In fact they could have offered less than the 4.5 % average achieved back in round one and it likely would have been accepted.In fact it almost went that way but they chose to be total smart@r$e$ and rewrote the fine print and then blamed the engineers for reneging on an in principle agreement.
Guess what ? The engineers position became more entrenched and determined to win.
He and the architects of the campaign are responsible.Few if any remain.Deservedly so. One because they lost , two because it was a flawed fight from day one.
Dixon and his ilk cost this company mega millions in the failed T/O bid also.Top management were totally marginalised by the bid and its process. They sought to enrich themselves at great cost to the company and the country.If Dixon and Gregg are such valuable people why are they no longer there?
If the bid had gone thru qantas would not exist.
Short termism at its worst. The govt would likely have had to bail them out or be without a real airline of global reach.
It would be at best a dessicated shell without a single asset of worth or cash to its name.
Now tell me who is shamefully selfish and misguided? 50 million dollar man or the 4.5% ers?
Numerous managers have lost their jobs or decided to "pursue other interests" retire etc largely as they lost a fight they could not win as they thought the engineers would rollover, they'd be able to employ enough people as an "alternate workforce" and that stopping O/T would not hurt them.
Wrong on all counts.
Qantas chose the path they took and set aside hundreds of millions to fight it.Their choice and responsibility alone.
Dixon and co stuffed up big time, started a war with the wrong weapons and in the end paid what the engineers politely asked for in round one.
In fact they could have offered less than the 4.5 % average achieved back in round one and it likely would have been accepted.In fact it almost went that way but they chose to be total smart@r$e$ and rewrote the fine print and then blamed the engineers for reneging on an in principle agreement.
Guess what ? The engineers position became more entrenched and determined to win.
He and the architects of the campaign are responsible.Few if any remain.Deservedly so. One because they lost , two because it was a flawed fight from day one.
Dixon and his ilk cost this company mega millions in the failed T/O bid also.Top management were totally marginalised by the bid and its process. They sought to enrich themselves at great cost to the company and the country.If Dixon and Gregg are such valuable people why are they no longer there?
If the bid had gone thru qantas would not exist.
Short termism at its worst. The govt would likely have had to bail them out or be without a real airline of global reach.
It would be at best a dessicated shell without a single asset of worth or cash to its name.
Now tell me who is shamefully selfish and misguided? 50 million dollar man or the 4.5% ers?
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El Perro Management
Lets sell the company to APA, take $500 000 000 commission in the best interest of shareholders of course.
Let that company rape every bit of possible equity out of the artificial price generated by the same people.
Let the company die, burdened with debt artificially created, costing 38000 jobs and leaving the nation a great airline down or the Nation funding its recovery!
But alas El Perro comes back to save the company! to buy it with a fraction of the profits raped, and to tell the staff they must work for less to keep their jobs.
Then say maintenance engineers cost the company $150m without a days strike!
What an idiot
What a Co*k
Let that company rape every bit of possible equity out of the artificial price generated by the same people.
Let the company die, burdened with debt artificially created, costing 38000 jobs and leaving the nation a great airline down or the Nation funding its recovery!
But alas El Perro comes back to save the company! to buy it with a fraction of the profits raped, and to tell the staff they must work for less to keep their jobs.
Then say maintenance engineers cost the company $150m without a days strike!
What an idiot
What a Co*k
El Perro = Selective memory
EL Perro (aka EL Troll) your interest and knowledge is evidently very short term and selective!
Remember back as far as the turbulent era of 9/11, the Ansett demise and SARS - those greedy engineers and all the other unions saw the situation was dire and collectlively took a pay freeze!
What did the collective management do?
Did they take a pay freeze?
Well not quite, they, because of their "skill and management efforts" settled for a 50% odd bonus!
Their leadership and management ethics were displayed for the world to see.....where were you then EL (Troll) Perro?
Remember back as far as the turbulent era of 9/11, the Ansett demise and SARS - those greedy engineers and all the other unions saw the situation was dire and collectlively took a pay freeze!
What did the collective management do?
Did they take a pay freeze?
Well not quite, they, because of their "skill and management efforts" settled for a 50% odd bonus!
Their leadership and management ethics were displayed for the world to see.....where were you then EL (Troll) Perro?
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I would be happy to work on J* LCC model, a pay RISE for all engineers!
A quote from earlier in the thread.
Where are my orange star overalls?
A quote from earlier in the thread.
lets compare LAME pays between Virgin/Jestar and Qantas,
starting wage at Virgin and Jetstar is approx $95k
Qantas is about $83 k p/a with shift loadings
starting wage at Virgin and Jetstar is approx $95k
Qantas is about $83 k p/a with shift loadings
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I think any shift towards a Jetstar style Qantas will be at an organisational structure level only. Qantas over the years has become bloated with useless positions. Planes need Captains and FO's, need fixing, baggage needs loading, buns need tossing and passengers still need to be checked in. It matters not if the tail is red or orange.The fleet size can be 136 or just 40, each plane still needs roughly the same number of each of the above.
I really couldn't care less if Qantas was run like Jetstar. It would still be full service, just much more efficient!
I really couldn't care less if Qantas was run like Jetstar. It would still be full service, just much more efficient!
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For those who are interested, (ABC Inside Business);
CEO sees 'leaner, meaner' Qantas in tough times - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Video is available and the Engineers get a mention.
CEO sees 'leaner, meaner' Qantas in tough times - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Video is available and the Engineers get a mention.
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Who knows
All we got is that there is an overtime restriction, all O/T must be approved by the Mgr or ops Mgr.
Even willing to accept delays and loss of aircraft availability due to a lack of manpower so it seems.
(It happened on Fri. evening in MEL)
How ironic considering the kerfuffle during the PIA about us not working O/T.
Batten down the hatches leading up to the end of the finanacial year, after that it will be a distant memory.
Even willing to accept delays and loss of aircraft availability due to a lack of manpower so it seems.
(It happened on Fri. evening in MEL)How ironic considering the kerfuffle during the PIA about us not working O/T.
Batten down the hatches leading up to the end of the finanacial year, after that it will be a distant memory.
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I hope they were handing out the DCM's
All we got is that there is an overtime restriction, all O/T must be approved by the Mgr or ops Mgr.
Last edited by Ngineer; 18th May 2009 at 08:30.
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AIRC Bans Urine Testing For Drugs
Anyone seen the letter from the ALAEA stating that the AIRC has banned the use of urine testing in the workplace because:
We'll see what the new HR manager for engineering, the honourable DM, will come up with to "encourage" staff to undergo the DAMP test.
- Urine testing does not necessarily detect impairment
- Is an embarrasing and humiliating process for an employee to undertake
- Is invasive and potentionally violates your privacy
- Is unneccesary as saliva testing is more accurate
- Detects over the counter and prescription medicine prescribed by your doctor. This is private business between you, your family and your doctor, not your employer.
- Security issues concerning storage of data from tested workers'
We'll see what the new HR manager for engineering, the honourable DM, will come up with to "encourage" staff to undergo the DAMP test.
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Just heard the annual pilgramage is on to LAX for some much needed training for management and their ilk.
Perhaps there will be refresher training about removing chocks before pushback and how to avoid eye contact with LAMEs during times of covert ops.
Perhaps there will be refresher training about removing chocks before pushback and how to avoid eye contact with LAMEs during times of covert ops.
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Air NZ may sue.
Air NZ may sue Qantas over strike
What's this wildcat strike nonsense ? Four hour lashings with wet lettuce is hardly wildcat territory.
Stupid journos wouldnt know if a tram was up him till the bell rang when it comes to the industry.
What's this wildcat strike nonsense ?
Four hour lashings with wet lettuce is hardly wildcat territory.Stupid journos wouldnt know if a tram was up him till the bell rang when it comes to the industry.
