Pilots with history of recreational drug use.Do I stand a chance?
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Illegal?
Making things illegal makes it hugely profitable for the trafficers and dealers.This results in an increase in the sales.
The Americans tried to outlaw alcohol a long time ago, and this resulted in wealthy organised crime bosses, with profitable illegal businesses. The americans have been stuck with this ever since.
Countries with liberal laws do much better.
The real solution is to educate people as to the sensible use, or non use of various drugs, and for the governments to get out of the drug dealing business. (nicotine and alcohol)
Australia has been tainted with the miitary philosophy that encourages the use of alcohol, and this is too often misued, with young peole binge drinking. A moderate ammount of alcohol is probably beneficial, but this can be and too often is grossly overdone, causing enormous harm, deaths and destroyed lives.
The effects of alcohol are well known.
But other unknown drugs, from an unknown source with no quality control and unknown effects ??
This is absolute madness.
There is only one thing in this world that is absolutely mandatory and unavoidable, and that is dying. Everything else is optional, but may have consequences. We must be responsible for what we do, and the consequences of those actions. We cannot "pass the buck" to anyone else, or to some mythical superman in the sky, government, the boss or our society.
Alcohol or other drugs may seem to ease the problems for a while, but they are still there, and come back later.
There is no magic potion. They only exist in fairy stories.
The Americans tried to outlaw alcohol a long time ago, and this resulted in wealthy organised crime bosses, with profitable illegal businesses. The americans have been stuck with this ever since.
Countries with liberal laws do much better.
The real solution is to educate people as to the sensible use, or non use of various drugs, and for the governments to get out of the drug dealing business. (nicotine and alcohol)
Australia has been tainted with the miitary philosophy that encourages the use of alcohol, and this is too often misued, with young peole binge drinking. A moderate ammount of alcohol is probably beneficial, but this can be and too often is grossly overdone, causing enormous harm, deaths and destroyed lives.
The effects of alcohol are well known.
But other unknown drugs, from an unknown source with no quality control and unknown effects ??
This is absolute madness.
There is only one thing in this world that is absolutely mandatory and unavoidable, and that is dying. Everything else is optional, but may have consequences. We must be responsible for what we do, and the consequences of those actions. We cannot "pass the buck" to anyone else, or to some mythical superman in the sky, government, the boss or our society.
Alcohol or other drugs may seem to ease the problems for a while, but they are still there, and come back later.
There is no magic potion. They only exist in fairy stories.
Last edited by bushy; 13th Apr 2008 at 03:13.
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Outcast. classic mate. what would big bird do?
I love reading threads on pprune because there are so many wankers on here. keep the stupidity rollin out boys.
I love reading threads on pprune because there are so many wankers on here. keep the stupidity rollin out boys.
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seriously though...
So a serious question, how would a prospective employer even know he/she answered yes to the drug question on the med questionaire? I would've have thought they would never see it as it is confidential? The dame just assesses whether the applicant is currently worthy of holding a particular class of medical. Or does the whole medical go on show for all to see. I occaisionally have asthma and I'm not sure whether some employers (QF) look favourably on that. Do dames or employers go back to your GP to get more info?
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I occaisionally have asthma and I'm not sure whether some employers (QF) look favourably on that.
Oh what tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive!
If you put a dalliance with illegal drugs on your medical records, then fill out a Qantas application questionnaire or suchlike document from another employer saying "No drug use" then in my opinion you have effectively committed the crime of obtaining a financial advantage by deception and it is you who provided the evidence. All that needs to happen then is for either your medical records to become public, or an accident occurs that requires investigators to examine exactly who and what you are.
As is happening all over the world, privacy is becoming a thing of the past, as databases can be searched at the flick of a finger. Of course it's all for the good of the community isn't it?
Here is the catch - the records won't say "Cetnik as a school kid, had a brief fling with eccy's etc. But he is all right now".
Nope, the record will say something like "Cetnik has a history of drug use" or "Cetnik - known drug user".
Or if it's a really big and compact database it will simply say "Cetnik - drug use flag = 1." (ie "Yes")
Some of you must know that your medical records are under continuous assault from insurance companies and employers as well as the government.
And the sad part is, if I was screening Qantas applicants, the first automatic exclusions would be for any exposure to drugs or any psychiatric treatment. And before you try and argue about this being "'reasonable", they will exclude with total disregard for the circumstances, context or timeframe.
I don't know how many times I've had to educate teenagers about the fact that your police and medical records are never erased, and what's on them can seriously reduce your career and earning prospects.
If you put a dalliance with illegal drugs on your medical records, then fill out a Qantas application questionnaire or suchlike document from another employer saying "No drug use" then in my opinion you have effectively committed the crime of obtaining a financial advantage by deception and it is you who provided the evidence. All that needs to happen then is for either your medical records to become public, or an accident occurs that requires investigators to examine exactly who and what you are.
As is happening all over the world, privacy is becoming a thing of the past, as databases can be searched at the flick of a finger. Of course it's all for the good of the community isn't it?
Here is the catch - the records won't say "Cetnik as a school kid, had a brief fling with eccy's etc. But he is all right now".
Nope, the record will say something like "Cetnik has a history of drug use" or "Cetnik - known drug user".
Or if it's a really big and compact database it will simply say "Cetnik - drug use flag = 1." (ie "Yes")
Some of you must know that your medical records are under continuous assault from insurance companies and employers as well as the government.
And the sad part is, if I was screening Qantas applicants, the first automatic exclusions would be for any exposure to drugs or any psychiatric treatment. And before you try and argue about this being "'reasonable", they will exclude with total disregard for the circumstances, context or timeframe.
I don't know how many times I've had to educate teenagers about the fact that your police and medical records are never erased, and what's on them can seriously reduce your career and earning prospects.
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Tricky corner that one. I would definately stay away for a while if I was you.
I haven't tried anything and that includes so-called party pills, plenty of opportunities to try, but a it doesn't interest me and b it's great to be able to honestly say when the medical review comes up, and to anyone who asks for that matter, never have, never will.
I haven't tried anything and that includes so-called party pills, plenty of opportunities to try, but a it doesn't interest me and b it's great to be able to honestly say when the medical review comes up, and to anyone who asks for that matter, never have, never will.
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there's a saying, "rob a bank for $1 or for $1000000 yr still a bank robber"
Same goes for drugs, you (as in a generic person) took just a small sample of drugs once then you can do it again at anytime !
No drugs, zero tolerance that's the way it ought to be if we are going to take back control of our streets from the thugs in the AFL/sports (of which there are sooooooooooo many) to the cheats at school.
Personnel opinion only of course
CW
Same goes for drugs, you (as in a generic person) took just a small sample of drugs once then you can do it again at anytime !
No drugs, zero tolerance that's the way it ought to be if we are going to take back control of our streets from the thugs in the AFL/sports (of which there are sooooooooooo many) to the cheats at school.
Personnel opinion only of course
CW
I personally have taken so called mind altering drugs in the past.. Since then I have been totally clean for a period of a couple a years.
Since then I had suffered a bout, lasting about a year, a period of total depersonalisation and a feeling of not even being the person I am, feeling as if I was living life behind a camera, life was happening around me yet I wasn't the one living it. Also at the same time I was suffering debilitating anxiety for no particular reason at all. There was no pre-trauma that I can associate with it, nothing, 1 day it started and I don't know why.
I can tell you straight up, mental illness is a far, far, far more debilitating disorder then any drugs I have ever taken.. Driving a car on pot was nothing compared to driving with an anxiety disorder. The effects of a hallucinagenic were nothing compared to being overcome with fear to point that even leaving your own house was the scariest thing imaginable...
I would be far more worried, having been through both, of a pilot with a mental disorder who cannot function at all, compared to someone whose abilities *MAY* be diminished, yet may not through smoking a bit of pot or indulging in a bit of ecstasy on the weekends..
In other words, there is no point telling the medical officer your history, you'll only ruin a chance at a successful career. The laws are bias against drugs which the UN (USA) consider illegal, alcoholism and mental illness(as long as youre on another mind altering drug, anti depressants and the like) is fine.
Since then I had suffered a bout, lasting about a year, a period of total depersonalisation and a feeling of not even being the person I am, feeling as if I was living life behind a camera, life was happening around me yet I wasn't the one living it. Also at the same time I was suffering debilitating anxiety for no particular reason at all. There was no pre-trauma that I can associate with it, nothing, 1 day it started and I don't know why.
I can tell you straight up, mental illness is a far, far, far more debilitating disorder then any drugs I have ever taken.. Driving a car on pot was nothing compared to driving with an anxiety disorder. The effects of a hallucinagenic were nothing compared to being overcome with fear to point that even leaving your own house was the scariest thing imaginable...
I would be far more worried, having been through both, of a pilot with a mental disorder who cannot function at all, compared to someone whose abilities *MAY* be diminished, yet may not through smoking a bit of pot or indulging in a bit of ecstasy on the weekends..
In other words, there is no point telling the medical officer your history, you'll only ruin a chance at a successful career. The laws are bias against drugs which the UN (USA) consider illegal, alcoholism and mental illness(as long as youre on another mind altering drug, anti depressants and the like) is fine.
Generally.. no.
Mental illness commonly leads to drug abuse which we can include alcohol abuse.
In my case, it was at least 8 years between the 2, there is no link. It did not cause me to seek out drugs as an excuse etc. You can think what you want, and from reading your previous postings, you are an anti-drug zealot, which is fair enough. But you are commenting about something you don't know. I have first hand experience about both and they are 2 completely different feelings.
Mental illness commonly leads to drug abuse which we can include alcohol abuse.
In my case, it was at least 8 years between the 2, there is no link. It did not cause me to seek out drugs as an excuse etc. You can think what you want, and from reading your previous postings, you are an anti-drug zealot, which is fair enough. But you are commenting about something you don't know. I have first hand experience about both and they are 2 completely different feelings.
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In my case, it was at least 8 years between the 2, there is no link.
There's only two causes as to why the patients end up there... it's either drugs they took 10 years ago or it's an autoimmune disease (99% of the time Lupus)! 
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i was sleeping with a different women every weekend and racking up line's of what ever would fit up my nose off there beautiful bare breast's and arses
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A lot of thread drift here... all fascinating, but the question that was asked was this:
I would hope that the answer to that question is an unqualified "NO". If the doctor/patient confidentiality principle is undermined by employer or government department interests then the ability of our society to address reform will be destroyed to our communal detriment.
The interesting question that follows is this: for employment with most airlines you will be interviewed/examined by a "Company-appointed DAME/Medical examiner" as part of you recruitment process. If you choose to lie to this person you may expose yourself if in a future incident investigation your past becomes known and was not disclosed.
So you are in a tricky position. The longer the elapsed time between notified drug use and the time of your application would probably diminish the influence on your application. If, as you say, you are 19 years old and you last used illicit drugs 2 months ago, I would say an employer would flick you like a fly on the face. Alternatively, if you had many years of gainful employment with good references since your "silly youthful drug use as an 18 year old" most employers would put the emphasis on your other attributes, and only small consideration would be placed on that issue.
Should you lie? I don't think anyone would recommend that, that is a risk analysis only you can answer but you need to consider the ramifications should it "come out in the end" after some incident.
Put yourself in the position of Chief Pilot of an Airline for a moment - would you risk putting a pilot with "known drug history" in the hot seat of an airliner carrying hundreds of people? If an incident occurred and the media got hold of the pilot's history, would you want to be defending that?
Plenty of people hide stuff, the measure of what and when is, at the end of the day, up to you - so be careful and be wise (these are attributes of a good pilot, after all.... )
I've told my GP about my drug use, so will that come up on my medical when applying to airlines if I don't mention it?
The interesting question that follows is this: for employment with most airlines you will be interviewed/examined by a "Company-appointed DAME/Medical examiner" as part of you recruitment process. If you choose to lie to this person you may expose yourself if in a future incident investigation your past becomes known and was not disclosed.
So you are in a tricky position. The longer the elapsed time between notified drug use and the time of your application would probably diminish the influence on your application. If, as you say, you are 19 years old and you last used illicit drugs 2 months ago, I would say an employer would flick you like a fly on the face. Alternatively, if you had many years of gainful employment with good references since your "silly youthful drug use as an 18 year old" most employers would put the emphasis on your other attributes, and only small consideration would be placed on that issue.
Should you lie? I don't think anyone would recommend that, that is a risk analysis only you can answer but you need to consider the ramifications should it "come out in the end" after some incident.
Put yourself in the position of Chief Pilot of an Airline for a moment - would you risk putting a pilot with "known drug history" in the hot seat of an airliner carrying hundreds of people? If an incident occurred and the media got hold of the pilot's history, would you want to be defending that?
Plenty of people hide stuff, the measure of what and when is, at the end of the day, up to you - so be careful and be wise (these are attributes of a good pilot, after all.... )
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Give it a cack
I wouldn’t be too concerned about what others have to say regarding your permiscuios behaviour.
The do gooders, christians and jahovas ranting and raving that you don’t have a chance, to reconsider your career options and the best you'll do for yourself is Coles or Woolies is just nonsense. However they are right about something, there’s no place for that sort of behaviour if you're serious about flying and it will certainly not be tolerated in a commercial environment.
If you have made a conscious decision that this is what you want to do with your life then stick to it.
LSD and speed aint the best things to be putting through your body, but neither is the copious amounts of alcohol young pilots drink on a weekly basis...but yet we always do it and will continue to do so until the day we work out we're not 10ft tall and bullet proof and other responsibilities set in.
In short if you've got no record, you're right, and don't go to your gp for a medical...he’s probably not a dame anyway.
Don’t mess with the law son and don’t touch the ****e again. You'll only have to fly seedy once to see its just not worth the hassle.
The do gooders, christians and jahovas ranting and raving that you don’t have a chance, to reconsider your career options and the best you'll do for yourself is Coles or Woolies is just nonsense. However they are right about something, there’s no place for that sort of behaviour if you're serious about flying and it will certainly not be tolerated in a commercial environment.
If you have made a conscious decision that this is what you want to do with your life then stick to it.
LSD and speed aint the best things to be putting through your body, but neither is the copious amounts of alcohol young pilots drink on a weekly basis...but yet we always do it and will continue to do so until the day we work out we're not 10ft tall and bullet proof and other responsibilities set in.
In short if you've got no record, you're right, and don't go to your gp for a medical...he’s probably not a dame anyway.
Don’t mess with the law son and don’t touch the ****e again. You'll only have to fly seedy once to see its just not worth the hassle.