Flying career progression at the moment??
Thread Starter
Flying career progression at the moment??
Hi fellow Prooners,
I'm curious as to how long it's now taking people to progress from bare CPL (200 hr/ MECIR/ ATPL theory) to the point of being hired at a Regional Airline level (discounting the Cadet schemes that seem to be popping up now).
My reason for asking is that I'm within months of finishing off the CPL/ MECIR and ATPL subjects and will have about 300hrs TT. However, I've also just turned 34 and realise that I probably don't have a lot of time to muck around.
For this reason, I've made up my mind to head north- anywhere I could quickly pick up work- instead of sticking around Melbourne and trying to find work as a G3 Instructor (funny enough, almost all advertisements for Schools looking for instructors down here are seeking Grade 1 & 2's). Besides, it's not my passion to Instruct and don't want to waste other peoples' time and money.
I've got full support from Mrs. Gearup to chase the work up north- BUT- as I've already dragged her halfway around the World chasing the dream- she's choosen to stay here in Melbourne whilst I head north to gain experience. Fortunately we're at the point where the House is paid off and we don't have Kids (yet), so as my Wife has said "there will never be a better time than now". Also, she's loving her Job and has the support of friends and Family close by.
What sort of time frame is realistic, from start of first job to being in a position of being able to fly out of a Capital City?
Thanks in advance for all of your thoughts/ opinions,
Gearup.
I'm curious as to how long it's now taking people to progress from bare CPL (200 hr/ MECIR/ ATPL theory) to the point of being hired at a Regional Airline level (discounting the Cadet schemes that seem to be popping up now).
My reason for asking is that I'm within months of finishing off the CPL/ MECIR and ATPL subjects and will have about 300hrs TT. However, I've also just turned 34 and realise that I probably don't have a lot of time to muck around.
For this reason, I've made up my mind to head north- anywhere I could quickly pick up work- instead of sticking around Melbourne and trying to find work as a G3 Instructor (funny enough, almost all advertisements for Schools looking for instructors down here are seeking Grade 1 & 2's). Besides, it's not my passion to Instruct and don't want to waste other peoples' time and money.
I've got full support from Mrs. Gearup to chase the work up north- BUT- as I've already dragged her halfway around the World chasing the dream- she's choosen to stay here in Melbourne whilst I head north to gain experience. Fortunately we're at the point where the House is paid off and we don't have Kids (yet), so as my Wife has said "there will never be a better time than now". Also, she's loving her Job and has the support of friends and Family close by.
What sort of time frame is realistic, from start of first job to being in a position of being able to fly out of a Capital City?
Thanks in advance for all of your thoughts/ opinions,
Gearup.
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that's a good question, i'd like to know (out of interest) as well, Since i'm on my SPL at the moment, I'd like to know an approx. timeframe from getting CPL to getting in the jets!
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Pyro Tek,
I would stay closer to where the action is in Melbourne, work on getting into the right seat of anything that flies and instruct to get command time. You will spend a lot of time and money in your travels and not be nearly as happy as being with your spouse. There are very reputable operators in the bush, but without your missus there with you, they might be reluctant to take you seriously.
I would stay closer to where the action is in Melbourne, work on getting into the right seat of anything that flies and instruct to get command time. You will spend a lot of time and money in your travels and not be nearly as happy as being with your spouse. There are very reputable operators in the bush, but without your missus there with you, they might be reluctant to take you seriously.
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Allow two years worst case scenario mate. A year on singles you will get close to the tonne, then if your unlucky you'll get into a twin operator but push singles for another 3 - 6 months, or if your lucky you will get straight onto a twin. If you get good hours you will have 250 Multi within 6 months of being checked to line, and that will see you around the 1200TT mark with 250 multi and in bed with maybe Rex of QF link. If you hang on for the rest of the year you will have 500 multi command and around 1800TT. Stick to the 500 multi even if people are now advertising that you dont need it. Its money in the bank and patience is a virtue!
Good luck fella take you passion and make it happen!
Good luck fella take you passion and make it happen!
Gearupandoff,
Why discount the cadet schemes? Mate, you have your house paid off. Don't waste your time trekking around the country - apply to a cadet scheme and then borrow the money against your house. At your age it will be the best option available to you and Mrs G. QF Mainline is focusing on Cadets due to the large no. of pilots required at the moment so go for it or the QFLink scheme.
M
Why discount the cadet schemes? Mate, you have your house paid off. Don't waste your time trekking around the country - apply to a cadet scheme and then borrow the money against your house. At your age it will be the best option available to you and Mrs G. QF Mainline is focusing on Cadets due to the large no. of pilots required at the moment so go for it or the QFLink scheme.
M
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In the current climate, 2 years is easily 'doable', you may even make it quicker. But why sell yourself short, bypass the regionals and go straight to the majors! That could also be done in under 2 years...
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Yeah and you will always be a cadet 
remember most of the generations before have done hard bush time, PNG and the like and they had to really do it tough to get a break. Even if you didnt have to go North i still would, its like the annual migration, your right of passage, our Nirvana as a pah-lot.
Go north, its character building and lots of fun plus you will meet invaluable contacts in the industry that may be your leg up into the airline game if your an honest fellow!
remember most of the generations before have done hard bush time, PNG and the like and they had to really do it tough to get a break. Even if you didnt have to go North i still would, its like the annual migration, your right of passage, our Nirvana as a pah-lot.Go north, its character building and lots of fun plus you will meet invaluable contacts in the industry that may be your leg up into the airline game if your an honest fellow!
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I agree with you but forget it 'MACH082' yr bashing yr head against the wall trying tell most that we did it the hard way. Today just about every young one coming thru now wants, expects & sadly gets it for almost free !
Once upon a time if you had less than 500 hrs you where considered too inexperienced to fly anything other than a C206 full of 'dark objects' around the bush, now with those hrs yr staring at the panel of a Regional ! Oh what price safety!
Gone are the days of 'real' pilots, todays pilots are just being 'groomed' for button pushing with little real time experience required.
Progress, yep that's it, sometimes would be nice just to stop the clock of time & think about where the first hull loss is going to be !
Can't wait to see the nasty responses from that, their out there alright go ahead do yr worst!
F
Once upon a time if you had less than 500 hrs you where considered too inexperienced to fly anything other than a C206 full of 'dark objects' around the bush, now with those hrs yr staring at the panel of a Regional ! Oh what price safety!
Gone are the days of 'real' pilots, todays pilots are just being 'groomed' for button pushing with little real time experience required.
Progress, yep that's it, sometimes would be nice just to stop the clock of time & think about where the first hull loss is going to be !
Can't wait to see the nasty responses from that, their out there alright go ahead do yr worst!
F
Thread Starter
Thanks for the replies so far.....
Much appreciated.
A few of you have mentioned the various Cadet schemes as the way to go initially.
It's my intention to apply for all of the various Cadet schemes as of the day that I've passed the MECIR test and final ATPL subject.
I'm also a realist though, and as such realise that all Cadet schemes are highly competitive for places and being in my mid-30's I have to compete against the 20- somethings that are the flavour of the month for these particular schemes (you only need to look at the photo of the initial intake of QFLink Cadets to see what I mean).
Nothing will frustrate me more than being qualified, job- ready, and having to then sit around here in Melbourne while the inept HR Dept at some Airline dithers with my application.
By looking at going North somewhere, I put myself more in control of my immediate destiny- it's more likely that I can "make something happen" with a smaller operater than with an Airline in the short term. Also, by getting a job somewhere prior to being accepted onto a Cadet Scheme, it should demonstrate to the decision makers that 1. I'm current and; 2. I have the drive and motivation to build a career as a Pilot- which for late starters is probably an important thing in front of an Interview Board.
So in short I will apply for any Cadet scheme that I can- but I'll also be doing the North thing at the same time to have the best chance of starting my career ASAP (at 34 I'm not getting any younger).
Interesting to note the sort of jobs that are starting to be advertised on the AFAP Website- I think it's not out of the question that I could secure a job somewhere BEFORE making the move out of Melbourne (although I realise that I'd have to travel initially for the Interview/ Check Flight). That should simplify the logistics and lower the cost of what I'm looking to do.
Please keep the thoughts/ opinions coming.
Cheers,
Gearup.
A few of you have mentioned the various Cadet schemes as the way to go initially.
It's my intention to apply for all of the various Cadet schemes as of the day that I've passed the MECIR test and final ATPL subject.
I'm also a realist though, and as such realise that all Cadet schemes are highly competitive for places and being in my mid-30's I have to compete against the 20- somethings that are the flavour of the month for these particular schemes (you only need to look at the photo of the initial intake of QFLink Cadets to see what I mean).
Nothing will frustrate me more than being qualified, job- ready, and having to then sit around here in Melbourne while the inept HR Dept at some Airline dithers with my application.
By looking at going North somewhere, I put myself more in control of my immediate destiny- it's more likely that I can "make something happen" with a smaller operater than with an Airline in the short term. Also, by getting a job somewhere prior to being accepted onto a Cadet Scheme, it should demonstrate to the decision makers that 1. I'm current and; 2. I have the drive and motivation to build a career as a Pilot- which for late starters is probably an important thing in front of an Interview Board.
So in short I will apply for any Cadet scheme that I can- but I'll also be doing the North thing at the same time to have the best chance of starting my career ASAP (at 34 I'm not getting any younger).
Interesting to note the sort of jobs that are starting to be advertised on the AFAP Website- I think it's not out of the question that I could secure a job somewhere BEFORE making the move out of Melbourne (although I realise that I'd have to travel initially for the Interview/ Check Flight). That should simplify the logistics and lower the cost of what I'm looking to do.
Please keep the thoughts/ opinions coming.
Cheers,
Gearup.
When you live....
QFLink traineeship?
Hi Gearupandorf,
I'm in a very similar situation - 34, 600 hours, MECIR (but stuff all twin command time), some turbine time, no ATPLs and have a QFLink traineeship interview approaching.
They advertised again on AFAP last week so they're still looking hard. Others (younger) on these boards with significantly less hours but same quals as you have already commenced. They've obviously already creamed off the applicants with the closest to what they need but again, from these forums, the MECIR seems to be the deciding factor in who they're currently looking at (although it was only 1 week after I updated my CV to add turbine time that I got the emails to start the process so it may have been that).
4 year bond for whatever they stump up to bring you up to the mins (in your case, 100 hours twin command only), 3 year bond for the endo (concurrent), pretty good chance of a Melbourne basing - would seem perfect for you....(and me!).
Good luck - and don't get worried about the 'but we did it the hard way' crew - ask them if they would have voluntarily gone north if they had the opportunities that now exist (luckily for us!). I'm not knocking them - life is unfair and you win some/lose some - but if you go north, the window that's now open could close again very quickly.
UTR
I'm in a very similar situation - 34, 600 hours, MECIR (but stuff all twin command time), some turbine time, no ATPLs and have a QFLink traineeship interview approaching.
They advertised again on AFAP last week so they're still looking hard. Others (younger) on these boards with significantly less hours but same quals as you have already commenced. They've obviously already creamed off the applicants with the closest to what they need but again, from these forums, the MECIR seems to be the deciding factor in who they're currently looking at (although it was only 1 week after I updated my CV to add turbine time that I got the emails to start the process so it may have been that).
4 year bond for whatever they stump up to bring you up to the mins (in your case, 100 hours twin command only), 3 year bond for the endo (concurrent), pretty good chance of a Melbourne basing - would seem perfect for you....(and me!).
Good luck - and don't get worried about the 'but we did it the hard way' crew - ask them if they would have voluntarily gone north if they had the opportunities that now exist (luckily for us!). I'm not knocking them - life is unfair and you win some/lose some - but if you go north, the window that's now open could close again very quickly.
UTR
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If you can go the cadet route!
No need for 'hard yards' if you don't have to, anyway what some Captains will put you through is WAAAY harder than anything you will encounter up North...
No need for 'hard yards' if you don't have to, anyway what some Captains will put you through is WAAAY harder than anything you will encounter up North...
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It's all up to you
As of 3 weeks ago (when I left Darwin) you could pretty much get a job with 300TT without any hassle. SOME of the lucky applicants were able to remain in Darwin! IMHO, if you went to one of the larger operators in DN, you could be flying multis in as little as 6 months!
As mentioned earlier, you could easily get the required hours in 12 months (for Rex and Qlink) and 18 months would see you with enough for the likes of Virgin or Jetstar.
Your age shouldn't be an issue (I started flying when I was 38!) and the regionals are looking for older guys, as the older guys might prefer lifestyle over big$ and flying a Jet.
But you might want to consider your partner. Mrs DIVOSH and I had discussed a few years ago that I may have to spend up to 18 months interstate flying before I had the required hours to get into a regional.
I spent 7 months in Darwin, and one of the reasons I came back was that our relationship was beginning to show signs of stress. (Not helped by me only coming back from Iraq 2 months before going to Darwin). Flights to Melbourne are cheap from Darwin and I was home for a few days every month or so. Not all partners are as sweet and understanding as mine is (she's looking over my shoulder as I type this). It IS hard on the partner that you leave behind, so think carefully before going.
At least you've got options these days.
Enjoy whatever choice you make,
DIVOSH!
As mentioned earlier, you could easily get the required hours in 12 months (for Rex and Qlink) and 18 months would see you with enough for the likes of Virgin or Jetstar.
Your age shouldn't be an issue (I started flying when I was 38!) and the regionals are looking for older guys, as the older guys might prefer lifestyle over big$ and flying a Jet.
But you might want to consider your partner. Mrs DIVOSH and I had discussed a few years ago that I may have to spend up to 18 months interstate flying before I had the required hours to get into a regional.
I spent 7 months in Darwin, and one of the reasons I came back was that our relationship was beginning to show signs of stress. (Not helped by me only coming back from Iraq 2 months before going to Darwin). Flights to Melbourne are cheap from Darwin and I was home for a few days every month or so. Not all partners are as sweet and understanding as mine is (she's looking over my shoulder as I type this).
It IS hard on the partner that you leave behind, so think carefully before going.At least you've got options these days.
Enjoy whatever choice you make,
DIVOSH!
Last edited by Di_Vosh; 1st Apr 2008 at 04:35. Reason: grammar
MACH082 & flyitboy,
The ignorance in your posts is disappointing.
Did you even read Gearupandorrf's post? The guy is 34. The best option for HIM AND HIS FAMILY is to get onto a cadet scheme and into an airline asap. He is not a 20 y/o little boy or girl who needs to go out bush and grow up. To become a 'real pilot' as you put it.
The Cadet schemes are no longer for the privelleged young ones. Many 'older' cadets have been taken recently. Age is not taken into account - if you score at the HIGHER LEVEL needed to get onto the cadet scheme you be accepted, irrespective of your age.
M
The ignorance in your posts is disappointing.
Did you even read Gearupandorrf's post? The guy is 34. The best option for HIM AND HIS FAMILY is to get onto a cadet scheme and into an airline asap. He is not a 20 y/o little boy or girl who needs to go out bush and grow up. To become a 'real pilot' as you put it.
The Cadet schemes are no longer for the privelleged young ones. Many 'older' cadets have been taken recently. Age is not taken into account - if you score at the HIGHER LEVEL needed to get onto the cadet scheme you be accepted, irrespective of your age.
M
Thread Starter
Cheers Di-Vosh....
Exactly the information I was looking for.
Thanks for sharing the experience Yourself and Mrs. D had while you were away.
This decision has not being made lightly by either of us- both of us jointly made the mutual decision that if moving away for a time was necessary to start building the career that I've always wanted- then so be it.
As previously stated, I will apply to all the Cadet schemes that I can as soon as I'm qualified, but I'm not going to let the ink dry on my License without doing what I can to get some sort of work happening wherever I can.
It's dangerous to put all of your eggs in one basket- especially when it comes to something as compeititive as Pilot Cadetships.
Underneath The Radar, appreciate your thoughts and info- what sort of contingencies have/ would you put in place if the Cadetship doesn't work out?
Cheers,
Gearup.
Thanks for sharing the experience Yourself and Mrs. D had while you were away.
This decision has not being made lightly by either of us- both of us jointly made the mutual decision that if moving away for a time was necessary to start building the career that I've always wanted- then so be it.
As previously stated, I will apply to all the Cadet schemes that I can as soon as I'm qualified, but I'm not going to let the ink dry on my License without doing what I can to get some sort of work happening wherever I can.
It's dangerous to put all of your eggs in one basket- especially when it comes to something as compeititive as Pilot Cadetships.
Underneath The Radar, appreciate your thoughts and info- what sort of contingencies have/ would you put in place if the Cadetship doesn't work out?
Cheers,
Gearup.
mmmmbop, harden up sunshine. This is a board for expressing peoples point of views.
I did it the hard way and I'm glad I did. I loved every minute of flying up north, and the people you meet are great. I would not trade any of that experience for anything.
Cadetships unfortunately I don't see them as being of any benefit to a pilot, other than a shortcut. Again, that is MY opinion, and I'm entitled to it.
Going north is probably the best way IMO to gain experience and probably will give you the greatest amount of experience that will assist you later on.
morno
I did it the hard way and I'm glad I did. I loved every minute of flying up north, and the people you meet are great. I would not trade any of that experience for anything.
Cadetships unfortunately I don't see them as being of any benefit to a pilot, other than a shortcut. Again, that is MY opinion, and I'm entitled to it.
Going north is probably the best way IMO to gain experience and probably will give you the greatest amount of experience that will assist you later on.
morno
Morno,
I'm still trying to work out how Mach082 and, in particular, flyitboy's posts answer the initial question posed?
They don't. They are just another bleat about how GA pilots do it soooooooo tough.
It seems you agree with me, yet you don't want to acknowledge it. The cadetship is a shortcut, that would be perfect for someone in their mid 30s. Which was and is my opinion as posted prior to all the chip-on-the-shoulder GA hardship posts.
Maybe you need to dry your eyes princess.
M
I'm still trying to work out how Mach082 and, in particular, flyitboy's posts answer the initial question posed?
They don't. They are just another bleat about how GA pilots do it soooooooo tough.
It seems you agree with me, yet you don't want to acknowledge it. The cadetship is a shortcut, that would be perfect for someone in their mid 30s. Which was and is my opinion as posted prior to all the chip-on-the-shoulder GA hardship posts.
Maybe you need to dry your eyes princess.
M
When you live....
Gearupandorf,
I'm not necessarily committed to an aviation career - do plenty of enjoyable flying on weekends etc and can afford to build it up both in hours and size.
That said, I haven't quite been able to shake the nagging desire to leave well paid job and fly for full time (I almost said 'a living' but regional FO salaries are not quite what I'd call a 'living'). My circumstances don't/won't allow me to leave the big smoke to 'go north' so I'm happily building hours outside the professional avenue until suchtime as a 'later in life' semi-retirement job in either GA or the reigionals cropped up (and to be frank, I'm too used to my creature comforts to live on rubbish money in the middle of nowhere!). That the opportunity may have come now is something of a suprise and so I'm jumping for it and if it doesn't come off then ces't la vie, back to plan A accepting the risk that I may never fly for a career.
UTR.
I'm not necessarily committed to an aviation career - do plenty of enjoyable flying on weekends etc and can afford to build it up both in hours and size.
That said, I haven't quite been able to shake the nagging desire to leave well paid job and fly for full time (I almost said 'a living' but regional FO salaries are not quite what I'd call a 'living'). My circumstances don't/won't allow me to leave the big smoke to 'go north' so I'm happily building hours outside the professional avenue until suchtime as a 'later in life' semi-retirement job in either GA or the reigionals cropped up (and to be frank, I'm too used to my creature comforts to live on rubbish money in the middle of nowhere!). That the opportunity may have come now is something of a suprise and so I'm jumping for it and if it doesn't come off then ces't la vie, back to plan A accepting the risk that I may never fly for a career.
UTR.
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job opportunities
I have recently begun training in Queensland, Australia and I am looking to relocate to Nelson Aviation College in NZ. I was wondering whether anyone would know of job opportunities in New Zealand for inexperienced qualified pilots apart from instructing.
