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RAAF pilots leaving

Old 31st Mar 2017, 06:41
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I hope the current "King Pins" of the RAAF have a better understanding of what the role of their crews are and what the crew requirements are to operate their aircraft. I recall around 1980 when a lot of Flight Engineers were leaving the RAAF a high ranking Officer stated, "Let them leave, we will operate the aircraft without them" when told a particular Squadron looked like not being able to meet their operational tasking requirements if they could not stem the tide of F/E's going to civilian operators. I also remember one CAF labeling those pilots leaving as "most being malcontents with little prospect of promotion", or very similar comment when asked if he was concerned at the exodus of the time. That was mid to late 1980's. Many of those "malcontents" had very successful civilian careers.

Last edited by Old Fella; 31st Mar 2017 at 09:17. Reason: grammar
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Old 31st Mar 2017, 08:50
  #582 (permalink)  
 
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Emirates are telling new recruits and potential applicants that they are hoping to open a base in Australia. Whether or not they can pull it off is another question but they do need to do something drastic to stem the exodus and prepare for their huge aircraft orders.

That might cause a raaf exodus.
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Old 31st Mar 2017, 09:41
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That's right, malcontents and deadwood was the term, S.D.Evans the utterer I think?
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Old 31st Mar 2017, 10:47
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Anyone joining Emirates directly onto a base would need a food taster when in DXB. I would suggest bases would be awarded in seniority order. Also, tomorrow is April 1st.

I was one of Evans' 'malcontents'; I only left because of the looming desk job. As it happened, I did well after leaving the RAAF, and am still flying at nearly 60.

Last edited by Captain Dart; 31st Mar 2017 at 11:24.
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Old 31st Mar 2017, 11:35
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Malcontents

Originally Posted by Arm out the window View Post
That's right, malcontents and deadwood was the term, S.D.Evans the utterer I think?
You are spot-on AOTW. The article was in Australian Aviation and I responded to it, something which I know was appreciated by some at the time. The same individual sometime later sought a political seat and decried the loss of crews and the lack of anything being done to arrest the exodus.
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Old 31st Mar 2017, 11:40
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Originally Posted by Old Fella View Post
I hope the current "King Pins" of the RAAF have a better understanding of what the role of their crews are and what the crew requirements are to operate their aircraft. I recall around 1980 when a lot of Flight Engineers were leaving the RAAF a high ranking Officer stated, "Let them leave, we will operate the aircraft without them" when told a particular Squadron looked like not being able to meet their operational tasking requirements if they could not stem the tide of F/E's going to civilian operators. I also remember one CAF labeling those pilots leaving as "most being malcontents with little prospect of promotion", or very similar comment when asked if he was concerned at the exodus of the time. That was mid to late 1980's. Many of those "malcontents" had very successful civilian careers.
I don't think anything has changed.
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Old 31st Mar 2017, 11:48
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The more things change the more they stay the same

I have been out of the RAAF since early 1981 Joker, but I think you are more than likely correct.
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Old 31st Mar 2017, 12:13
  #588 (permalink)  
 
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I was a troop in the RAAF during Air Marshal S. Evans' time as CAS Apr 82- May 85. He was poorly regarded by many of us as simply an aloof mouthpiece for the Defence Minister and Federal government. Fortunately, his replacement was the extremely well respected 'Jake' Newham. I remember meeting Air Marshal Newham in late 1985 at RAAF Richmond. That was after work, in the Airmen's Club over a few beers with quite a few other troops. He was very down to earth and a true leader.
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Old 31st Mar 2017, 12:26
  #589 (permalink)  
 
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The issue is self perpetuating - generally speaking, the "good" ones get out and the "bad" ones (with some exceptions) stay in and wonder why any of the "malcontents" wanna leave!
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Old 31st Mar 2017, 12:53
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Down to Earth

Originally Posted by gerry111 View Post
I was a troop in the RAAF during Air Marshal S. Evans' time as CAS Apr 82- May 85. He was poorly regarded by many of us as simply an aloof mouthpiece for the Defence Minister and Federal government. Fortunately, his replacement was the extremely well respected 'Jake' Newham. I remember meeting Air Marshal Newham in late 1985 at RAAF Richmond. That was after work, in the Airmen's Club over a few beers with quite a few other troops. He was very down to earth and a true leader.
Gerry, you and I both know that the majority of those with whom we flew or otherwise worked with were good blokes. (No female tech crew in my day) Some went on to the upper echelons and remained unchanged, others needed a much bigger hat size as they ascended the rank ladder. We were/are all smart enough to know the difference in personalities they each possessed. My experience during my 23 years left me with many more good memories than bad ones. The same can be said of my civil career experiences and those with whom I shared the flight deck. As in all areas of life we sometimes do not always enjoy the company of those around us or above us. Overall life has been great and I hope it stays that way for a while yet.
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Old 31st Mar 2017, 23:20
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There are some good stories about Selwyn D Evans and his efforts to fly every aircraft on every base, from the Huey to the F-111 to the Orion, each of them ending with him committing some atrocity and (twice) damaging the aircraft, then refusing to accept responsibility for it.

In 1973 he also grounded every pilot at Amberley whose hair was longer than the Air Force Regulations, because "if you disobey RAAF Orders, then you probably disobey Flying Orders, so you are by definition DANGEROUS, so you are grounded until you get a haircut." Be nice if you could fix a dangerous pilot by giving him a haircut...

I think he even tried to be governor of SA.
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Old 12th May 2017, 02:07
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There are a few RAAF pilots that now have start dates but upon resignation they were surprised to find that their SPEC aircrew ROSO was to be enforced!! Apparently it's lawyers at 20 paces.
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Old 12th May 2017, 02:55
  #593 (permalink)  
 
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Why? were they expecting something different? Talk about cake and wanting to eat it too
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Old 12th May 2017, 04:03
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I've no sympathy... Spec Aircrew is the greatest deal for those chosen few who can actually get it. No ground job, pay rise every year and generally the best/most interesting flying.
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Old 12th May 2017, 10:12
  #595 (permalink)  
 
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Only the that are good looking and incredibly talented can get spec aircrew. Anyone thinking that ROSO will not be enforced is perhaps intellectually challenged.
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Old 12th May 2017, 17:58
  #596 (permalink)  
 
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Anyone thinking that ROSO will not be enforced is perhaps intellectually challenged.
Can you provide an example of when and how a roso has been enforced?
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Old 12th May 2017, 18:13
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Was it Evans who ran unsuccessfully for the seat of Eden Monaro in the mid 80's??
There was suggestion at the time that his military success was in no small part due to old school connections with Jim Killen, defence minister 1977-82 ish.

Last edited by The Banjo; 12th May 2017 at 18:24.
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Old 12th May 2017, 22:09
  #598 (permalink)  
 
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For the laymen, can someone explain 'spec crew' ?
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Old 12th May 2017, 22:12
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Originally Posted by Brakerider View Post
For the laymen, can someone explain 'spec crew' ?
Basically...

Contract length of 3, 6 or 10 years (normally)

Guarenteed flying position and no change of location

$3000 pay rise a year

A return of service of 3 years for signing up (I think)
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Old 13th May 2017, 10:57
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Also - the best bit - "Cannot be promoted whilst in position."
In fact, if you're above the rank of Flight Lieutenant, Spec Aircrew usually comes with a DEMOTION.
There's some VERY happy former Group Captains wearing Flight Lieutenant rank on their shoulders now...
Doesn't necessarily encourage the FLTLTs who wanted the Spec Aircrew position to stay, especially when they're the one's with the option to leave and take a job overseas - for perhaps DEC with some high paying Chinese airline on an A330...
IMO the RAAF don't run the whole Spec Aircrew thing all that well.
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