Commercial Aviation Pay Rates
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Commercial Aviation Pay Rates
Having just returned from Redbull in Perth after staying with some friends I found it interesting to compare aviation pay rates with mining jobs in WA (admittedly from the resources boom). I was told a job was recently advertised for a kitchen hand (not a cook) for 10 days on, 5 off for $100,000, and plumbers and electricians on similar rotations are being payed $200,000.
Taking Qantas pay rates out of the discussion, as long term they may be a thing of the past, it seems about $140,000 is the top rate for a Capt, with most commercial pilots earning well below $100,000.
I am interested in the motivation of new pilots coming into an industry where they must spend at a bare minimum $40,000 of their own money on training to obtain a level of skill, discipline and responsibility, in my opinion, equivalent to a doctor, to then be payed at the current level. Comparing RFDS pilots pay to the doctor and flight nurse in the back I find simply astounding.
I understand this is driven primarily by supply and demand, but what is driving the oversupply?
Taking Qantas pay rates out of the discussion, as long term they may be a thing of the past, it seems about $140,000 is the top rate for a Capt, with most commercial pilots earning well below $100,000.
I am interested in the motivation of new pilots coming into an industry where they must spend at a bare minimum $40,000 of their own money on training to obtain a level of skill, discipline and responsibility, in my opinion, equivalent to a doctor, to then be payed at the current level. Comparing RFDS pilots pay to the doctor and flight nurse in the back I find simply astounding.
I understand this is driven primarily by supply and demand, but what is driving the oversupply?
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I am interested in the motivation of new pilots coming into an industry where they must spend at a bare minimum $40,000 of their own money on training to obtain a level of skill, discipline and responsibility, in my opinion, equivalent to a doctor, to then be payed at the current level. Comparing RFDS pilots pay to the doctor and flight nurse in the back I find simply astounding.
I think very few in the "privateer" (non cadet/ military) training industry would tell someone that they lack "Right Stuff" to progress to an airline job. This poor sod represents cash flow for the aeroplane owner & training organisation as well as logbook experience for the instructor. He is to be milked for every penny (cynical I know).
The airlines seem to have a reasonable success rate with choosing their cadets, as do the miltary. Their selections systems could be implemented, by the privateer industry, but would they tell the truth?
Bottom line, its not in their financial interest to do so. Life would be so much easier for many if the harsh reality was faced before they spent dollar one.
Just my 2 cents worth.
The airlines seem to have a reasonable success rate with choosing their cadets, as do the miltary. Their selections systems could be implemented, by the privateer industry, but would they tell the truth?
Bottom line, its not in their financial interest to do so. Life would be so much easier for many if the harsh reality was faced before they spent dollar one.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Seasonally Adjusted
I would be very suprised if a minesite kitchen hand was on 100k a year. They are normally employed by the minesite catering mob who aren't known for their overly generous salary packages.
Having said that, there would be no doubt that they would be earning more than the Bras Captains who fly them in and out.
It certainly is a sad state of affairs but we may be turning the corner.
Having said that, there would be no doubt that they would be earning more than the Bras Captains who fly them in and out.
It certainly is a sad state of affairs but we may be turning the corner.
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Front page of one of the local papers last week. Brickies in Brissy making $1200 A DAY.
.
Ummm........apparently yes it is that good. Good luck to them. I love seeing people get ahead.
I know the money's good, but it ain't that good! Reality check please.
Ummm........apparently yes it is that good. Good luck to them. I love seeing people get ahead.
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Let's keep things in perspective here!
CPL/MEIR takes 12 months taining and what, $40,000 ?
That would take care of only 1 of the minimum of 6 years of full-time/full-fee medical training.
R
Suggest you work in a mine for a few years, as a labourer/offsider.
The money will be handy for your licenses, and you will quickly figure out that it's too hard a job, and will easily settle into the cushy life of a hard working pilot.
The money will be handy for your licenses, and you will quickly figure out that it's too hard a job, and will easily settle into the cushy life of a hard working pilot.
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Mining V's Flying
Hey,
Runaway Gun ,
I've been a coal miner and a GA commercial pilot and mining wins hands down.
Pays good , I don't have to buy my job , It's safer , the equipment is less than 5 years old , professionaly run , more job security , and there's no one trying to pinch your job by working for less.
And most of all , your not surrounded by people who are "passionate about flying".
Runaway Gun ,
I've been a coal miner and a GA commercial pilot and mining wins hands down.
Pays good , I don't have to buy my job , It's safer , the equipment is less than 5 years old , professionaly run , more job security , and there's no one trying to pinch your job by working for less.
And most of all , your not surrounded by people who are "passionate about flying".
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Another reality check:
Most Brickies get really good dough but not that good. Some Brickies generally get paid linked to performance. i.e. - so many bricks etc.
These are the guys who make hay while the long Brisbane Summer Sun shines.
- also makes up for the days off due to rain, short winter days or other subbies/supplier stuff ups etc. or when there are half-days due odd jobs/small jobs.
Supply and Demand - Try getting a concrete slab laid, fitter or carpenter in under three months on the East-Coast!.
Front page of one of the local papers last week. Brickies in Brissy making $1200 A DAY.
These are the guys who make hay while the long Brisbane Summer Sun shines.
- also makes up for the days off due to rain, short winter days or other subbies/supplier stuff ups etc. or when there are half-days due odd jobs/small jobs.
Supply and Demand - Try getting a concrete slab laid, fitter or carpenter in under three months on the East-Coast!.
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Living in the North-West for the past few years, the salaries quoted wouldn't be far off the mark.
but when you have to pay upward of $700 a week in rent you want to be getting the big bucks (or a company house).
You do have to have a good hard look when a cleaner is earning twice your salary with more time off.
but when you have to pay upward of $700 a week in rent you want to be getting the big bucks (or a company house).
You do have to have a good hard look when a cleaner is earning twice your salary with more time off.
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It is definitely a sad indictment of the industry. I can get $120k PA to drive a brand new truck for 10days on 7days off, and more if I decide to go back to my trade (heavy duty fitter), and yet when chatting with some management types in the aviation industry recently about a job was informed my +8000 Hrs and all the ratings and endorsements are worth about $35k.
If I wasn't working for myself in the aviation industry, i doubt I would be in it at all. I'm glad i pay myself a bit better than the industry standard.
If I wasn't working for myself in the aviation industry, i doubt I would be in it at all. I'm glad i pay myself a bit better than the industry standard.
I live in a fairly large town on the coast of Queensland. Whilst as an ATC i get a reasonable salary, it's nothing compared to what people working in the mines 1 hour to the west of us earn. Most are on $100k plus. Sparkys etc well over $200k ... Makes my $80k pale into insignificance. 
You try buying a house in this town for under $300k. not gonna happen.
The the wonderful ASA mangers say we get paid too much
Gimme a friggin break. These clowns here can't add 2 numbers together and have zero responsibility, yet get paid double what i earn..
You try buying a house in this town for under $300k. not gonna happen. The the wonderful ASA mangers say we get paid too much
Gimme a friggin break. These clowns here can't add 2 numbers together and have zero responsibility, yet get paid double what i earn..
Life on a mine isn't for everyone, but a youngster with a trade going in to mining in his early 20s will probably be able to look at a comfortable retirement around the age of 40 if he's sensible with his money.
Compare that with the cost of a licence and endorsements and the financial penalty of years of low pay jobs until, you make left seat on an airliner and start earning respectable money. VERY big if as the odds are against it.
I would be way ahead money wise had I become a plumber. Over the next 20 years until I retire I will be playing catch up and possibly come out ahead compared to school mates who got decent trades. Assuming I can still pass all the medicals and sim checks
But some of the flight attendants are gorgeous, my work place is airconditioned and I don't get my hands dirty so there are advantages if you do make airline
Compare that with the cost of a licence and endorsements and the financial penalty of years of low pay jobs until, you make left seat on an airliner and start earning respectable money. VERY big if as the odds are against it.
I would be way ahead money wise had I become a plumber. Over the next 20 years until I retire I will be playing catch up and possibly come out ahead compared to school mates who got decent trades. Assuming I can still pass all the medicals and sim checks
But some of the flight attendants are gorgeous, my work place is airconditioned and I don't get my hands dirty so there are advantages if you do make airline
Welcome to the real world of labour supply and demand!!!
The Mine Site employee you mentioned on 10 Days On - 5 Days Off works 2,433 hours per annum for his salary. Did you compare that to the pilot's 700 to 800 stick hours per annum?
And after a four year, very low paid apprenticeship and 24 weeks in College, why shouldn't the electrician be highly paid???
To each his own. No doubt a miner could afford to pay for a Commercial Pilot License and a Pilot could obtain work on a mine site.
It's all a matter of personal choice.
The Mine Site employee you mentioned on 10 Days On - 5 Days Off works 2,433 hours per annum for his salary. Did you compare that to the pilot's 700 to 800 stick hours per annum?
And after a four year, very low paid apprenticeship and 24 weeks in College, why shouldn't the electrician be highly paid???
To each his own. No doubt a miner could afford to pay for a Commercial Pilot License and a Pilot could obtain work on a mine site.
It's all a matter of personal choice.
I really enjoyed flying around while I was training. Now in the real world, living in a hole of a town, working 12-14 hour days, putting up with BullS**T from the owner of the company, knowing that you could be fired for the silliest things & getting paid less than when I was stacking shelfs in a supermarket have really opened my eyes. The flying is good, but thats where it all ends. I dont want to sound negative, but knowing what I know now, I seriously doubt I would get involved in aviation as a commercial pilot.
The reality of the situation is that pilots have always been treated badly - it started after WW2, then decades after pilots finally got some good pay and conditions & then it all fell apart in the pilots dispute in '89. I dont see things improving anytime soon (just look at the pay that virgin and jet* drivers are on).
LeMeL
The reality of the situation is that pilots have always been treated badly - it started after WW2, then decades after pilots finally got some good pay and conditions & then it all fell apart in the pilots dispute in '89. I dont see things improving anytime soon (just look at the pay that virgin and jet* drivers are on).
LeMeL
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I thought GA pay, was Johnny Howard's idea of "work for the dole" put into practice!