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The Home of Photos in Dunnunda! Mk I

Old 10th Jan 2012, 06:13
  #9081 (permalink)  

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Been at least one case I know of where pulling the chute in a Cirrus over water led to a broken back and drowning because they couldn't extricate themselves from the cabin.

The undercarriage provides no cushioning on water and the aeroplane just slams down on its belly.
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Old 10th Jan 2012, 06:38
  #9082 (permalink)  
 
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You're not wrong Griffo, if I had to go down too it would preferably be in the warm shallow waters of the Bahama's versus Bass Strait!

Chuckles, indeed u r correct and I believe that scenario has happened more than once before.
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Old 10th Jan 2012, 10:28
  #9083 (permalink)  
 
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Why risk pulling the chute when you can just carry out a landing on to the water!

Does everyone blindly follow the sales pitch?

Back to basics.... Fly the aeroplane!
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Old 10th Jan 2012, 11:39
  #9084 (permalink)  
 
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Not aye aye cap'n.....

Does not the Cirrus have a fixed 'water slicing/digging' u/c?

I think I would still prefer the 'slam down' with door open and jackets on whilst descending / floating down, and raft at the door......

As these guys did.

Cheers

Oh - and did I mention - the WARM waters of the Bahamas.....

If it was good enuf for James Bond - its good enuf for moi....
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Old 11th Jan 2012, 00:38
  #9085 (permalink)  
 
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Been at least one case I know of where pulling the chute in a Cirrus over water led to a broken back and drowning because they couldn't extricate themselves from the cabin.
That would actually be two cases. One broken back and one drowning.

The broken back was compression fractures of the lower vertrabrae and the pilot extracted himself from the aircraft through the window, reached back for his life vest, entered the water and swam half-way to shore where he was met by the first responders. Next day he walked out of the hospital and within six-months was snowboarding. His real medical problem was a brain tumor that caused a blackout that incapacitated him, so he pulled the red CAPS handle after recovering from a high-speed dive.

The second was a conventional ditching by a ferry pilot near Greenland in heavy seas, who was found face down outside the plane with a broken leg. He was wearing an uninsulated survival suit. Helicopter rescuers reached him within 20 minutes according to the investigators. And the plane was still floating.

Current wisdom for water landings in a Cirrus is to pull early so as to prepare for egress. Lots of time (30 seconds per 1000 feet) to prepare passengers, make mayday calls, organize survival and rescue equipment, and brace for impact.

Cheers
Rick
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Old 11th Jan 2012, 00:44
  #9086 (permalink)  
 
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Why risk pulling the chute when you can just carry out a landing on to the water!

Does everyone blindly follow the sales pitch?

Back to basics.... Fly the aeroplane!
Because Cirrus pilots have an option -- pull the handle and prepare for egress instead of flying the aeroplane!

This good doctor in this situation reports that his performance degraded, his thinking got muddled, and his stress level increased dramatically as he glided down. He told himself and Miami Center air traffic controllers that he would pull at 2000' above the ocean and considers that an important fixation to actually pull the handle.

For more details from Dr. McGlauglin on what happened before, during and after his parachute pull, see this blog:
Early Reflections on CAPS Pull #32 by Dick McGlaughlin in the Bahamas

Cheers
Rick
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Old 11th Jan 2012, 01:03
  #9087 (permalink)  
 
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Many Thanks Rick for the advice and for 'clearing that up'....

Unfortunately, I don't own a Cirrus and am never likely to...

However, in my 'humble' flying machine, I will have to 'fly it all the way into the crash site as far as is possible'.....apols to the author of that...was it Mr Hoover??

Aviate, Navigate, Communicate............then text!!

Cheers
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Old 11th Jan 2012, 06:50
  #9088 (permalink)  
 
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Why I love the Savannah, aka, aluminum parachute. Hold it in a deep stall, 1 stage of flap, and descent rate settles at 600ft/min. Nose high, still controllable. Far more preferred than hitting the deck at 2000ft/min.
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Old 11th Jan 2012, 08:40
  #9089 (permalink)  
 
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As my A320 driving Savvy owning mate says......As ugly as the box the bits came in........... but they are a great fun machine I love flying it......(ohhh and for FB WOC and others it is a phone number rego...and I am licenced/certificated to fly it)

He also has a Retard Vehicle now for the longer faster more comfy missions

UL....... we need some more of your cool video's man.... get to work!
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Old 11th Jan 2012, 18:41
  #9090 (permalink)  
 
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Typo ??

Far more preferred than hitting the deck at 2000ft/min.
Is the 2000 fpm a typo ??. Seems to me a hell of a rate to be coming down. Long time back to the SE days but I seem to remember lower rates of descent during practice and real forced landings. Does the Cirrus just go down like well trimmed manhole cover or does it have forward speed ??.

Curious now, anyone explain (properly).
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Old 11th Jan 2012, 19:04
  #9091 (permalink)  
 
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Far more preferred than hitting the deck at 2000ft/min.
Is the 2000 fpm a typo ??. Seems to me a hell of a rate to be coming down. Long time back to the SE days but I seem to remember lower rates of descent during practice and real forced landings. Does the Cirrus just go down like well trimmed manhole cover or does it have forward speed ??.
A Cirrus under CAPS descends in a level attitude held by three risers attached to both sides of the firewall and a rear bulkhead. After rocket extraction, the parachute fills with air smoothly as the slider allows a regulated amount of air into the canopy. Depending on airspeed when the parachute deploys, the canopy opens fully in 6-10 seconds, less when the airspeed if greater!

Vertical descent under canopy has been measured indeed at 1700 fpm or 17 knots or 20 mph. Engineers suggest that impact on a flat surface would be the equivalent of a drop from 13 feet.

Note that under parachute canopy, there is very little horizontal velocity, just what the prevailing winds can exert on the canopy and airframe, and due to drag, upon impact that is less than the surface wind speed.

So, a Cirrus under canopy impacts with 17 knots of vertical motion and somewhat less than surface wind speed of horizontal motion.

Compare that with a forced landing at near stall speed of 59 knots in a Cirrus. Descent at best glide is 900 fpm, so vertical descent is less but you still have horizontal flying speed to deal with.

Recall that energy varies with the square of velocity. So, if you hit something during your forced landing at stall speed, you have 12 times more energy to dissipate until you slow down. And if you are unlucky to spin at 100 knots or get into a spiral descent of 180 knots, then you have 34 or 112 times more energy when you hit the ground.

Cheers
Rick
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Old 11th Jan 2012, 20:32
  #9092 (permalink)  
 
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But you can direct that energy in the direction you want.

If you are serious about safety you would bale out with a normal parachute once the aircraft is stabilised by the balistic one.

Are Cirrus the airborne Volvo?
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Old 11th Jan 2012, 21:02
  #9093 (permalink)  
 
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Great discussion, but this thread's for photos!

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Old 11th Jan 2012, 22:52
  #9094 (permalink)  
 
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Now THATS a 'Groovy Shot' Dave.........

Almost looks like a 'forward swept' Tiger.....

Something from NASA perhaps....??
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Old 12th Jan 2012, 02:41
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I'll have ago

Great Lakes.

Southern Victoria....

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Old 12th Jan 2012, 04:12
  #9096 (permalink)  
 
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Just started fitting the wheel pants and fairings on the RV, getting closer and closer
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Old 12th Jan 2012, 04:48
  #9097 (permalink)  
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Great discussion, but this thread's for photos!
Great photo, that thing messes with your mind!
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Old 12th Jan 2012, 05:46
  #9098 (permalink)  
 
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25 knots faster with them pants Arnold
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Old 12th Jan 2012, 06:26
  #9099 (permalink)  
 
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Right state, wrong side, Boris. Was 20-30nm west of Portland.

Creepy pic if ever i took one, that's cropped to the eyes too. The full face shot is not approved for public distribution.
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Old 12th Jan 2012, 07:09
  #9100 (permalink)  
 
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Ya gotta have ya pants on Jack

Been a loooong time since Chimbu Chuckles showed us what was happening with the Bo resurrection, whats going down Chimbu?
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