Sth Africans try to 'relocate' YPJT for massive profit, yes or no. Lets hear it?
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I hear what you're saying Sunfish and you'd have thought they were clever enough to have consulted the govt first, but it seems not. This morning the WA planning and environment minister is quoted as saying she hasn't been consulted and she is surprised that as a study has just been released showing the airport, with it's planned changes, is capable of absorbing the growth over the next 20 years it is surprising that a new owner, with a recognised background in property development, now finds that to no longer be the case! The planned industrial development around the airport is large already and I'm sure they are going to make a mint out of it. I don't have any gripe with that, but their current attitude stinks.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: perth
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What's changed in the last 6 months????
I quote directly from the 2006 Master Plan, which can be found here http://www.jandakotairport.com.au/Fi...202006%20-.pdf
Seems to me that building a new parallel runway would be a lot cheaper than building a new airport!!!
This proposal to move the airport doesn't sound to me like the actions of an owner who has the interests of GA aviation as a priority.
This Master Plan (MP) is a review of the approved
2000 Jandakot Airport Master Plan and has been
prepared by JAH accordance with Part 5 Division 3
of the Airports Act 1996. The 2000 Master Plan was
approved by the Minister for Transport and Regional
Services on the 24th October 2000.
This review retains the primary concepts of the 2000
Master Plan while incorporating various updates.
The most significant variation is the provision of a
fourth parallel 12/30 touch and go runway. The
additional runway will not greatly increase annual
capacity, rather it will improve safety and efficiency
on days when the crosswinds on the 06/24
runways exceed 12 knots forcing operations on
to the existing 12/30 single runway.
The 476,000 aircraft movements forecast for the
next 20 years determined the 2025 Airport
Development Plan. (refer to Figure ES.1) The
Master Plan recognises that it will be necessary
to construct a fourth runway within the next 5
years to cater for an expected increase of
student pilot training due to a global shortage of
airline pilots. The development of aviation
support facilities, aprons, airport access and
commercial sectors will also occur over the 20
year planning period.
The Master Plan (MP) provides a framework
within which the airport‘s future development can
take place. It provides a plan for the airport for
the next 20 years taking into account associated
land use, environmental, ground access and
engineering service issues.
Forecast Growth
Existing statistics show that for the 2003
calendar year, Jandakot Airport conducted
324,308 aircraft movements. Forecasts for the
Master plan indicate by the year 2025 the total
annual aircraft movements conducted at
Jandakot Airport is expected to be 476,000.
Since Jandakot Airport is capable of handling
about 514,650 aircraft movements per year, the
annual aircraft movements are not expected to
exceed the current airport’s capacity within the
20-year planning horizon.
2000 Jandakot Airport Master Plan and has been
prepared by JAH accordance with Part 5 Division 3
of the Airports Act 1996. The 2000 Master Plan was
approved by the Minister for Transport and Regional
Services on the 24th October 2000.
This review retains the primary concepts of the 2000
Master Plan while incorporating various updates.
The most significant variation is the provision of a
fourth parallel 12/30 touch and go runway. The
additional runway will not greatly increase annual
capacity, rather it will improve safety and efficiency
on days when the crosswinds on the 06/24
runways exceed 12 knots forcing operations on
to the existing 12/30 single runway.
The 476,000 aircraft movements forecast for the
next 20 years determined the 2025 Airport
Development Plan. (refer to Figure ES.1) The
Master Plan recognises that it will be necessary
to construct a fourth runway within the next 5
years to cater for an expected increase of
student pilot training due to a global shortage of
airline pilots. The development of aviation
support facilities, aprons, airport access and
commercial sectors will also occur over the 20
year planning period.
The Master Plan (MP) provides a framework
within which the airport‘s future development can
take place. It provides a plan for the airport for
the next 20 years taking into account associated
land use, environmental, ground access and
engineering service issues.
Forecast Growth
Existing statistics show that for the 2003
calendar year, Jandakot Airport conducted
324,308 aircraft movements. Forecasts for the
Master plan indicate by the year 2025 the total
annual aircraft movements conducted at
Jandakot Airport is expected to be 476,000.
Since Jandakot Airport is capable of handling
about 514,650 aircraft movements per year, the
annual aircraft movements are not expected to
exceed the current airport’s capacity within the
20-year planning horizon.
This proposal to move the airport doesn't sound to me like the actions of an owner who has the interests of GA aviation as a priority.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Singapore FC anc China Southern help us all out with cheaper fees because of the income they bring.
Will they be happy to move? SFC just finished building a new accomodation block. I know they were thinking of packing up a few years back.
Imagine is CSWAFC packed up too, prices at the new airport will soar with the greedy South Africans at the helm, and nobody using their shiney new airport in the sticks! Say goodbye to the flight training market as we know it!
I already drive 35km one way, I wont make it 55km everyday.
We all have to stick together to save GA in W.A.!!
Will they be happy to move? SFC just finished building a new accomodation block. I know they were thinking of packing up a few years back.
Imagine is CSWAFC packed up too, prices at the new airport will soar with the greedy South Africans at the helm, and nobody using their shiney new airport in the sticks! Say goodbye to the flight training market as we know it!
I already drive 35km one way, I wont make it 55km everyday.
We all have to stick together to save GA in W.A.!!
Moderator
What would the scrap metal value of the shiny new fence be?!
Also I very much doubt that these people will be looking more than five years ahead. They want to make a big pile of money, then sell it all off to the next sucker. ie, shut down Jandakot, get the money for housing and run.
Even though legally they can't do that it seems they are not going to let that stop them. Maybe this kind of thing works in their old country. Let's hope that no pollies are going to sink to their level and let this happen.
Also I very much doubt that these people will be looking more than five years ahead. They want to make a big pile of money, then sell it all off to the next sucker. ie, shut down Jandakot, get the money for housing and run.
Even though legally they can't do that it seems they are not going to let that stop them. Maybe this kind of thing works in their old country. Let's hope that no pollies are going to sink to their level and let this happen.
therin lies the problem methinks.
Don Quixote Impersonator
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Australia
Age: 77
Posts: 3,403
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CFI
Whatever chance they may have had they just shot themselves in both feet big time with the Feds, State and the tenants.
They should take the pen and microphone off Mr Fraser and lock him in the broom cupboard with a years supply of MRE until he promises to play nice and see if they can find someone who knows how it actually works in this country.
They need to understand that just because a Minister tells them "I'll look at your proposal", doesn't mean they are on the way, it means precisely what he says "I'll look at your proposal",
Under the Australian form of Govt, Ministers are obliged to look at ANY proposal presented by ANY constituent, action beyond that will depend on its merit and how properly and widely they have consulted. You cant just do it by good old boys club, fiat or press release.
I have it on impeccable authourity that it just aint gunna happen.
And certainly not in our lifetimes and not without a very very large amount of work and the willing cooperation of ALL of the stakeholders and parties.
The land is gazetted, zoned legislated or whatever for airport/aviation use, end of story as far as the Feds and the Act is concerned.
They just dont get it, it is simply NOT in their power to relocate anyone nor do they have the freehold of the airport with which to negotiate.
There IS NO POT OF GOLD for them in any proposed redevelopment by them or ANYONE without Federal or State legislation. Were there to be so, they would get fair compensation for the lease purposes and like everybody else would have to line up to bid for the land if ever it is released.
Well let's stampede the horses and frighten the tenants into submission, yeah right.
Whatever chance they may have had they just shot themselves in both feet big time with the Feds, State and the tenants.
They should take the pen and microphone off Mr Fraser and lock him in the broom cupboard with a years supply of MRE until he promises to play nice and see if they can find someone who knows how it actually works in this country.
They need to understand that just because a Minister tells them "I'll look at your proposal", doesn't mean they are on the way, it means precisely what he says "I'll look at your proposal",
Under the Australian form of Govt, Ministers are obliged to look at ANY proposal presented by ANY constituent, action beyond that will depend on its merit and how properly and widely they have consulted. You cant just do it by good old boys club, fiat or press release.
I have it on impeccable authourity that it just aint gunna happen.
And certainly not in our lifetimes and not without a very very large amount of work and the willing cooperation of ALL of the stakeholders and parties.
The land is gazetted, zoned legislated or whatever for airport/aviation use, end of story as far as the Feds and the Act is concerned.
They just dont get it, it is simply NOT in their power to relocate anyone nor do they have the freehold of the airport with which to negotiate.
There IS NO POT OF GOLD for them in any proposed redevelopment by them or ANYONE without Federal or State legislation. Were there to be so, they would get fair compensation for the lease purposes and like everybody else would have to line up to bid for the land if ever it is released.
Well let's stampede the horses and frighten the tenants into submission, yeah right.
Grandpa Aerotart
I think the FIP light is glowing red hot at JAH/Ascot Capital.
That is the FECKup IN PROGRESS light
Might be nice for the current stakeholders to make the Yarpies an offer the can't refuse and buy the whole shebang...when they accept their plans have fallen on sandy ground and the pot of gold was illusory.
That is the FECKup IN PROGRESS light
Might be nice for the current stakeholders to make the Yarpies an offer the can't refuse and buy the whole shebang...when they accept their plans have fallen on sandy ground and the pot of gold was illusory.
nice quote!
The Planning and Infrastructure, Minister Alannah MacTiernan, says she suspects the proposal is more about property development than improving air services and is concerned groups like the Royal Flying Doctor Service will be disadvantaged.
Moderator
"Yah", JF has managed in one fell swoop to alienate his tenants and lose any credibility he may have had.
Presumably if this redevelopment was possible, the last mob would have done it, rather than sell it on to the current guys.
Presumably if this redevelopment was possible, the last mob would have done it, rather than sell it on to the current guys.
Thread Starter
YPJT To Relocate??
G'day PAF,
I do believe that my original heading was simply
'YPJT To Relocate??'
I was not aware of the SA 'Connection', but certainly was aware of the motive...which is / was painfully obvious?????????
'Woomera' - thanks for the 'sticky' anyway.........The subject matter certainly IS a 'contentious' issue - and a bloody arrogant one as well!!!!!!!!!!
For those users not living in Perth - The local Real Estate values here in Perth and surrounding districts are escalating at an alarming rate, and subsequently, affordable land for the average family is fast becoming a dream of the past.......600 + hectares in the Jandakot area would divide up into many homesites at - dare I say it - a truly 'massive' profit - but 'dems not my words'....
I do believe that my original heading was simply
'YPJT To Relocate??'
I was not aware of the SA 'Connection', but certainly was aware of the motive...which is / was painfully obvious?????????
'Woomera' - thanks for the 'sticky' anyway.........The subject matter certainly IS a 'contentious' issue - and a bloody arrogant one as well!!!!!!!!!!
For those users not living in Perth - The local Real Estate values here in Perth and surrounding districts are escalating at an alarming rate, and subsequently, affordable land for the average family is fast becoming a dream of the past.......600 + hectares in the Jandakot area would divide up into many homesites at - dare I say it - a truly 'massive' profit - but 'dems not my words'....
Last edited by Ex FSO GRIFFO; 17th Jun 2006 at 03:26.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Dunnunda & Godzone
Age: 74
Posts: 4,275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PAF
Now that you ask, I honestly can not recall whether it was in the original thread title or not.
I edited the title, as we do from time to time, to more accurately reflect the context of the thread content and to pose the question. We do these things on the fly and do not keep copies.
If you are suggesting that it is emotive and results from our editorial support for the debate then fair comment and so be it.
And yes, were in the extremely improbable event they were able to pull it off, there would be massive profits, the unspoken coda being, "directly at the expense of the GA business".
This is publicly owned land reserved for the benefit of the public and use of the aviation industry, under the stewardship and management for this purpose of a private organisation. It is that simple.
I am told from, it seems the unanimous viewpoint of the tenants, this organisations behaviour has been so far less than user friendly.
I also have it on impeccable authority the organisation have been told by the powers that be that until they consult fully (in this case apparently none at all) with their tenants and get a broad consensus on the way forward there will not be any further progress beyond the "idea".
It was also pointed out to me that in any event the land is owned by the Commonwealth, the leasehold does not confer any other rights than those contained in the lease, which does not in and of itself include the ability to change the land use.
The form of language contained in the "NOTICE TO ALL TENANTS" is in itself very revealing especially given that it was apparently prised from them as a result of the tenants hearing about the "plan for their future" by media.
We are all concerned for the future of GA in Australia and the pressure applied by landlords with real estate agendas on the secondary airports which are the nurseries of the business.
Jandakot Airport tenants are some of the more succesful and best examples of GA growth in Australia, and we say that in purely relative terms, .
They are like all GA airport tenants, in our opinion, a resource to be nurtured, and cherished.
The Government as policy made it very clear in the leasehold sale documentation that these airports are not future shopping malls or real estate development.
Lets stay focussed here.
A question that really should be asked here is where is the national organisation of airport tenants or an organisation that will pick them up that can present a coherent force.
Complaining here might make you feel better but it wont change anything.
PPRuNe cannot be that, other than to provide the means of discussion between ALL of the parties.
JAH, BAL and so on are all welcome here and it might be a useful way of breaking down the divide.
Now that you ask, I honestly can not recall whether it was in the original thread title or not.
I edited the title, as we do from time to time, to more accurately reflect the context of the thread content and to pose the question. We do these things on the fly and do not keep copies.
If you are suggesting that it is emotive and results from our editorial support for the debate then fair comment and so be it.
And yes, were in the extremely improbable event they were able to pull it off, there would be massive profits, the unspoken coda being, "directly at the expense of the GA business".
This is publicly owned land reserved for the benefit of the public and use of the aviation industry, under the stewardship and management for this purpose of a private organisation. It is that simple.
I am told from, it seems the unanimous viewpoint of the tenants, this organisations behaviour has been so far less than user friendly.
I also have it on impeccable authority the organisation have been told by the powers that be that until they consult fully (in this case apparently none at all) with their tenants and get a broad consensus on the way forward there will not be any further progress beyond the "idea".
It was also pointed out to me that in any event the land is owned by the Commonwealth, the leasehold does not confer any other rights than those contained in the lease, which does not in and of itself include the ability to change the land use.
The form of language contained in the "NOTICE TO ALL TENANTS" is in itself very revealing especially given that it was apparently prised from them as a result of the tenants hearing about the "plan for their future" by media.
We are all concerned for the future of GA in Australia and the pressure applied by landlords with real estate agendas on the secondary airports which are the nurseries of the business.
Jandakot Airport tenants are some of the more succesful and best examples of GA growth in Australia, and we say that in purely relative terms,
.They are like all GA airport tenants, in our opinion, a resource to be nurtured, and cherished.
The Government as policy made it very clear in the leasehold sale documentation that these airports are not future shopping malls or real estate development.
Lets stay focussed here.
A question that really should be asked here is where is the national organisation of airport tenants or an organisation that will pick them up that can present a coherent force.
Complaining here might make you feel better but it wont change anything.
PPRuNe cannot be that, other than to provide the means of discussion between ALL of the parties.
JAH, BAL and so on are all welcome here and it might be a useful way of breaking down the divide.
Moderator
As for the number of homesites..speaking as one who lives on the Jandakot Water Mound, as is the Airport, and living with all the accompanying environmental restrictions, it seems likely to me that it would be zoned "special rural" ie one house every two hectares.
When I called the Airport Managment office after listening to the news at 11 am, I was told "JF will be drafting up something for the tenants later"
The "notice to tenants" was eventually sent out at 2.34 pm.
When I called the Airport Managment office after listening to the news at 11 am, I was told "JF will be drafting up something for the tenants later"
The "notice to tenants" was eventually sent out at 2.34 pm.
Don Quixote Impersonator
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Australia
Age: 77
Posts: 3,403
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CFI
Sounds like the tenants are right up there on their list of priorities, the tenants do after all pay their bills. Contemptuous is a word that comes to mind.
Jandakot water mound is only the half of it.
If you have been part of the land development business and the Perth Community for more than the last few years you would understand that there are very rational and well thought principles and policy behind why and which parts of the metro area were/are put aside for what purpose.
A quick look at the Stepenson Plan is a good start for newbies.
Perth planners have had a unique opportunity to do a clean sheet development plan for Perth almost since day 1 and the Metropolitan Region Planning Scheme or whatever it is now called, is still pretty much ground zero for everything that has or will subsequently happen.
There are of course some variations along the way but the basic concept is still the backbone of the plan for Perth and environs.
In the long ago I used to have a copy which was huge A2 folio book. Must go see if I can find the current iteration.
Here's a start http://www.wapc.wa.gov.au/default.aspx
I'll find the original 1950/60 's document soon.
Sounds like the tenants are right up there on their list of priorities, the tenants do after all pay their bills. Contemptuous is a word that comes to mind.
Jandakot water mound is only the half of it.
If you have been part of the land development business and the Perth Community for more than the last few years you would understand that there are very rational and well thought principles and policy behind why and which parts of the metro area were/are put aside for what purpose.
A quick look at the Stepenson Plan is a good start for newbies.
Roe Highway was first proposed in 1955 by Gordon Stephenson as part of what was to become the Metropolitan Region Planning Scheme. It is named in honour of John Septimus Roe, first Surveyor General of Western Australia.
There are of course some variations along the way but the basic concept is still the backbone of the plan for Perth and environs.
In the long ago I used to have a copy which was huge A2 folio book. Must go see if I can find the current iteration.
Here's a start http://www.wapc.wa.gov.au/default.aspx
I'll find the original 1950/60 's document soon.
Last edited by gaunty; 17th Jun 2006 at 06:54.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Oz
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just to diverge a little,what would be the cost of installing an ILS at a secondary,suitable airport be so that the guys attempting to get an ILS into PH arent shoved and held all over the shop,costing shet loads to the customer for no training advantage.
GinGin maybe?
GinGin maybe?