Commercial & Atpl Theory Subjects
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Commercial & Atpl Theory Subjects
Number one son in Melbourne (closer to Moorabbin than Essendon) wants to do theory subjects part time/full time.
Any info, suggestions appreciated.
I have been out of it for too long to know or help.
Any info, suggestions appreciated.
I have been out of it for too long to know or help.
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Commercial & ATPL Theory.
Pity your son is not in Sydney. If he were, I would recommend the NSW TAFE in the city. The course is 18 months to 2 years taught by professionals who are both pilots and academics. They have been teaching theory for more than 30 years and they have some connection with either Sydney University or the University Of NSW. One of which has its own flying school.
You will also find that the time he has spent at the TAFE will get him credits, if at some time later he wants to convert his Advanced Diploma to a Degree.
There is also a TAFE college based at Parafield (Adelaide), the course is run BY the TAFE I think its called Regency TAFE do an internet search.
Swinburne Uni in Melbourne runs a very good course, the course content can be viewed on the net. However the CPL & ATPL theory is out sourced.
You will also find that the time he has spent at the TAFE will get him credits, if at some time later he wants to convert his Advanced Diploma to a Degree.
There is also a TAFE college based at Parafield (Adelaide), the course is run BY the TAFE I think its called Regency TAFE do an internet search.
Swinburne Uni in Melbourne runs a very good course, the course content can be viewed on the net. However the CPL & ATPL theory is out sourced.
You cant beat AFT for the full time ATPL course, and his site recomends Bob Tait for CPL.
Check it out
AFT
Got me through my ATPLs first time
The ATPL part is a 6 week course on the Sunshine Coast, they can organise a place to stay while your there. You well sit 4 of the subjects and If you fail any of them then you can go back and sit the course again for FREE!
The last three subjects are distance Ed (Met, Airlaw, HP)
Check it out
AFT
Got me through my ATPLs first time
The ATPL part is a 6 week course on the Sunshine Coast, they can organise a place to stay while your there. You well sit 4 of the subjects and If you fail any of them then you can go back and sit the course again for FREE!
The last three subjects are distance Ed (Met, Airlaw, HP)
You cant beat Lionel Taylor, at Peter Bini's at Moorabbin.
Full time, Part time, PPL, CPL, ATPL, IREX, you name it, he knows his stuff in more detail than anyone I've ever heard of!
Full time, Part time, PPL, CPL, ATPL, IREX, you name it, he knows his stuff in more detail than anyone I've ever heard of!
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AFT are the best,even for a dumb 
one like myself. I'm currently converting over to my R/W CPL and their notes are worth every cent. I would also suggest using there practice exams,on their web site prior to sitting the actual exams.
I would also recommend Lionel Taylor,if you were in Melbourne. I done my ATPL sudjects back in the early 90's with him,and got through first go.
Anyone know if Allan Watson is still doing theory in Melbourne ? He is another good theory instructor.
one like myself. I'm currently converting over to my R/W CPL and their notes are worth every cent. I would also suggest using there practice exams,on their web site prior to sitting the actual exams.I would also recommend Lionel Taylor,if you were in Melbourne. I done my ATPL sudjects back in the early 90's with him,and got through first go.
Anyone know if Allan Watson is still doing theory in Melbourne ? He is another good theory instructor.
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Originally Posted by C152R
Pity your son is not in Sydney. If he were, I would recommend the NSW TAFE in the city. The course is 18 months to 2 years taught by professionals who are both pilots and academics. They have been teaching theory for more than 30 years and they have some connection with either Sydney University or the University Of NSW. One of which has its own flying school.
Just wondering what TAFE is? Is it better to go through 'TAFE' rather than going to a full time flying school? You did mention one connection they may have with a Uni and/or one having their own flying school. I'm planning to move to Oz soon... and looking for a course that would last me about 2 years... so I can ensure I get all the subjects in the first attempts. Please PM if you have any more info..... and if any of you guys out there have any thoughts... I'd be glad to hear something.
Cheers,
pilotezulu
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I thought I would add my two cents also. I too can highly recommend the courses run by Lionel Taylor at Peter Bini Advanced Flight Training. I was led to believe that the CPL syllabus was extremely difficult and was put off for quite a while until I came across his courses. I got through it, thoroughly enjoyed it and made many friends at the same time. My exam resuIts were very pleasing also. If you want it, he will get you through it. He's been doing these courses for many years and has an excellent reputation. 
Whatever you do - avoid the computer based theory courses like the plague. Some schools are flogging them and they are making a killing on them by selling the product to you at twice what they get them from the licensee - I wasted $3000 for the "professional" package.
Whatever you do - avoid the computer based theory courses like the plague. Some schools are flogging them and they are making a killing on them by selling the product to you at twice what they get them from the licensee - I wasted $3000 for the "professional" package.
Last edited by AusFlygal; 30th Jan 2006 at 11:43.
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hey man
just a suggestion u don't have to take it.
but save yourself some money buy the books and teach yourself.
from my experience u usually know more than the people teaching
u anyway.if u can just get taught ATPL flight planning and maybe systems. everything else is fairly self expanatory
i realise some people prefer courses. to motivate them to study and make it easier for themselves. which it will do but self teaching is a far cheaper option if u have the work ethic.
just a suggestion u don't have to take it.
but save yourself some money buy the books and teach yourself.
from my experience u usually know more than the people teaching
u anyway.if u can just get taught ATPL flight planning and maybe systems. everything else is fairly self expanatory
i realise some people prefer courses. to motivate them to study and make it easier for themselves. which it will do but self teaching is a far cheaper option if u have the work ethic.
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Sorry "Charlie" but I strongly disagree with you there. There would be very very few people who could pass ALL the exams FIRST TIME simply by self-studying.
I'd be very interested to know what marks they are getting for their exams - most likely they would be scraping in just over the 70% pass mark. Doing theory in the classroom certainly increases your depth of knowledge about each of the subjects and shows that your are serious about aviation, rather learning just enough to get you by.
I'd be very interested to know what marks they are getting for their exams - most likely they would be scraping in just over the 70% pass mark. Doing theory in the classroom certainly increases your depth of knowledge about each of the subjects and shows that your are serious about aviation, rather learning just enough to get you by.
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Self-study works...
You can definately self-study all your CPL theory subjects and average between 80 - 95%!
I did that a couple of years ago using Bob Tait books, which were excellent! Did the same for IREX using Bob Tait.
ATPL subjects are harder, but I've known at least three people who've self-studied ATPL and passed them as well.
Sadly, for DIVOSH, I don't have time, so I've self studied ATPL human factors and MET (over 80% for both) but will go up to AFT later on this year for the harder ones, and do Law when I get back.
Self study may not be for you, but is definately an option!
Cheers,
DIVOSH!
I did that a couple of years ago using Bob Tait books, which were excellent! Did the same for IREX using Bob Tait.
ATPL subjects are harder, but I've known at least three people who've self-studied ATPL and passed them as well.
Sadly, for DIVOSH, I don't have time, so I've self studied ATPL human factors and MET (over 80% for both) but will go up to AFT later on this year for the harder ones, and do Law when I get back.
Self study may not be for you, but is definately an option!
Cheers,
DIVOSH!
Commercial& ATPL Theory Subjects
Pilotezulu TAFE is one level above high school graduation, not the same level as a university. However with a TAFE Diploma you can get a year off a University degree. The NSW TAFE is a top institution read my earlier posting.
Its simple really how much can you learn. If you just want to pass do a flash course in CPL in 6 to 8 weeks and yes you will pass,because nearly all the CASA questions are known. Its multi choice and nearly all the questions you will get,you would have seen on the course.
The TAFE course is 18 to 24 months long. Do you want to be a pilot or a driver?? More & more airlines are wanting a degree. Your choice.
Its simple really how much can you learn. If you just want to pass do a flash course in CPL in 6 to 8 weeks and yes you will pass,because nearly all the CASA questions are known. Its multi choice and nearly all the questions you will get,you would have seen on the course.
The TAFE course is 18 to 24 months long. Do you want to be a pilot or a driver?? More & more airlines are wanting a degree. Your choice.
MBA747
Going by your profile you are very new to this industry. Let me tell you something about CASA exams. At the professional level they have almost no relevance to the job at hand. They are an English exam and to be frank a poor one at that. My advice to people wanting to get a CPL or higher, do the PPL subjects by self study. Do the CPL subjects in a classroom environment whether that is TAFE or a private institution or by correspondence and do the ATPL subjects at one of the private institutions listed in this thread. At the end of the day the profession of a pilot is learnt in the practical teaching aspect and polished and refined once you are working in the industry.
This is complete BS. There are no airlines in this part of the world that want or require degrees. They require you to have completed year 12 maths, physics and English. That’s all. If you have a degree that is great but it makes zip difference to whether you get the job.
Its simple really how much can you learn. If you just want to pass do a flash course in CPL in 6 to 8 weeks and yes you will pass,because nearly all the CASA questions are known. Its multi choice and nearly all the questions you will get,you would have seen on the course. The TAFE course is 18 to 24 months long. Do you want to be a pilot or a driver??
More & more airlines are wanting a degree.
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Commercial & Atpl Subjects
Titan404 your one of the old school. Did you get around to getting year 12? You didn't need that in your day. Asia is following the rest, US & most of Europe want degrees have a look at Wizz Air Hungary requirements, Check out Bangkok Air requires " Bachelor Degree". Nearly all SIA cadets have degrees mainly in engineering. Oh! by the way how are your Trent700's going in freezing fog conditions or are you having to do the manual engine de-icing. Those 340's cruising at Mach82, to slow.
The old uneducated pilot is over.
The old uneducated pilot is over.
C152R
I suggest you read my profile before saying I’m “Old School and uneducated”. It really makes you look silly. I have had a lot more to do with pilot recruitment than you realise. For every airline that you name that requires it, I can name you ten that don’t, namely CX, KA, SQ, QF, NZ, EK, BA to name just a few. I will admit a lot of the cadets we employ at CX have degrees but it isn’t a requirement and most of the direct entry pilots don’t have degrees. This very same argument was going around 20 years ago when I started learning to fly. Nothing has changed since except salaries have gone south in the mean time. QF has the same requirements as they did 20 years ago. CX requirements have dropped in that time. 20 years ago unless you had a military background it was almost impossible to get in here. Mind you they didn’t have S/O’s back then and cadets weren’t employed. If some airlines want degrees, good luck to them. With the current expansion of many airlines in the region, most are finding it difficult to attract quality candidates. Go and have a close look at what is happening in China and India and you will see what direction pilot recruitment is going. If you want to believe what some flying school or university lecturer has said fine. But with all due respect they and you don’t know what you are talking about.
I suggest you read my profile before saying I’m “Old School and uneducated”. It really makes you look silly. I have had a lot more to do with pilot recruitment than you realise. For every airline that you name that requires it, I can name you ten that don’t, namely CX, KA, SQ, QF, NZ, EK, BA to name just a few. I will admit a lot of the cadets we employ at CX have degrees but it isn’t a requirement and most of the direct entry pilots don’t have degrees. This very same argument was going around 20 years ago when I started learning to fly. Nothing has changed since except salaries have gone south in the mean time. QF has the same requirements as they did 20 years ago. CX requirements have dropped in that time. 20 years ago unless you had a military background it was almost impossible to get in here. Mind you they didn’t have S/O’s back then and cadets weren’t employed. If some airlines want degrees, good luck to them. With the current expansion of many airlines in the region, most are finding it difficult to attract quality candidates. Go and have a close look at what is happening in China and India and you will see what direction pilot recruitment is going. If you want to believe what some flying school or university lecturer has said fine. But with all due respect they and you don’t know what you are talking about.
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C152r
You seem pretty passionate about the requirement to have a degree for airline flying.
Maybe I'm getting a little "old school" myself. What advantage does a "Bachelor degree" give? (Serious question)
DIVOSH!
Maybe I'm getting a little "old school" myself. What advantage does a "Bachelor degree" give? (Serious question)
DIVOSH!
Commercial& ATPL Theory Subjects
404 Titan you miss the point about being educated. It's guys like you holding on to the old ideas that are promoting the idea that all you need is year12. Yes in Aus & countries where guys like you do the recruiting that will be the case but once the graduates replace you , do you think they will accept a sub standard education for the job.
It's simple really all things being equal don't tell me you will recruit a year12 graduate than a degree holder, if you do you should be replaced.
If you really want to get down to bare facts about what education does a pilot really need? Basically all he needs Is a Year 9 education he needs to know basic Trig (Trignometry) ie. Sine, Cos, Tan & Sec, for Physics he needs to know Newtons First & Third law of motion. In Oz its not a problem to pass the CPL/ATPL exams, just get the sample exam papers which are readily available and that will ensure passing the exam.
The CPL exams are a joke. ATPL Flight Planning is a bit more challenging.
I know of 2 graduates self studied & passed the lot, mind you one failed Flt Planning the first time he was over confident. By the way how is it you don't know that most flying schools prefer to teach their students in preference to sending them to a tertiary college. Its not in their interests to promote higher education and they don't. I guess with FMGS & ECAM on board you dont't need much brain power. By the way senior QANTAS management pilots are being encouraged to do University courses in business.
It's simple really all things being equal don't tell me you will recruit a year12 graduate than a degree holder, if you do you should be replaced.
If you really want to get down to bare facts about what education does a pilot really need? Basically all he needs Is a Year 9 education he needs to know basic Trig (Trignometry) ie. Sine, Cos, Tan & Sec, for Physics he needs to know Newtons First & Third law of motion. In Oz its not a problem to pass the CPL/ATPL exams, just get the sample exam papers which are readily available and that will ensure passing the exam.
The CPL exams are a joke. ATPL Flight Planning is a bit more challenging.
I know of 2 graduates self studied & passed the lot, mind you one failed Flt Planning the first time he was over confident. By the way how is it you don't know that most flying schools prefer to teach their students in preference to sending them to a tertiary college. Its not in their interests to promote higher education and they don't. I guess with FMGS & ECAM on board you dont't need much brain power. By the way senior QANTAS management pilots are being encouraged to do University courses in business.
MBA747
No I haven’t missed the point. By the way I’m not old school. I’ve still got 22 odd years before I have to retire. I really find it a pain in the a**e that some of the younger generation and pilots who have been in this industry for five seconds think they know everything about it. I will let you in on a little secret sunshine, you don’t. There are powers that be above me that are driving down the job description of an airline pilot. Those powers are at board level of most airlines. They are placing immense pressure on management in Ops departments and recruitment departments to recruit pilots on never ending lowering conditions. The only way they can do this is by lowering the entry requirements. Fact, nine out ten resumes we have on file are from pilots without degrees. They meet all our requirements with regard to experience and education. What do you think would happen to pilot wages and conditions if all of a sudden we and the industry said 9/10 of those on file are now no longer suitable for employment simply because they don’t have degrees? The reality is the percentage of pilots with degrees hasn’t significantly changed over the last 20 years and isn’t going to change much in the future if the current generation of pilots coming through is anything to go by. If every pilot had a degree that would be a different story but they don’t. The reality is you don’t need a degree to do this job and the board members and upper level management know this and are using it to their advantage to drive conditions down. If you think it is the recruiters that are setting the minimum entry requirements then you have a lot to learn about this industry. Accountants run airlines and will continue to drive cost and conditions down. They are the facts and you are just going to have live with it unfortunately.
No I haven’t missed the point. By the way I’m not old school. I’ve still got 22 odd years before I have to retire. I really find it a pain in the a**e that some of the younger generation and pilots who have been in this industry for five seconds think they know everything about it. I will let you in on a little secret sunshine, you don’t. There are powers that be above me that are driving down the job description of an airline pilot. Those powers are at board level of most airlines. They are placing immense pressure on management in Ops departments and recruitment departments to recruit pilots on never ending lowering conditions. The only way they can do this is by lowering the entry requirements. Fact, nine out ten resumes we have on file are from pilots without degrees. They meet all our requirements with regard to experience and education. What do you think would happen to pilot wages and conditions if all of a sudden we and the industry said 9/10 of those on file are now no longer suitable for employment simply because they don’t have degrees? The reality is the percentage of pilots with degrees hasn’t significantly changed over the last 20 years and isn’t going to change much in the future if the current generation of pilots coming through is anything to go by. If every pilot had a degree that would be a different story but they don’t. The reality is you don’t need a degree to do this job and the board members and upper level management know this and are using it to their advantage to drive conditions down. If you think it is the recruiters that are setting the minimum entry requirements then you have a lot to learn about this industry. Accountants run airlines and will continue to drive cost and conditions down. They are the facts and you are just going to have live with it unfortunately.
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Still waiting for my answer on why a degree is important to being a pilot.
MBA747, you're also passionate about having a degree to fly, but then you contradict yourelf throughout in your post with:
So you're saying that you don't need a degree?
Your last point was
Can you please explain how a business course aids in flying, and why it would be important while selecting a candidate for your airline?
Another point you've made makes me wonder whether you've ever recruited anybody, in any industry?
I've not recruited any pilots, but I've recruited in several other industries. I've never had the situation you've described.
DIVOSH!
MBA747, you're also passionate about having a degree to fly, but then you contradict yourelf throughout in your post with:
If you really want to get down to bare facts about what education does a pilot really need? Basically all he needs Is a Year 9 education he needs to know basic Trig (Trignometry) ie. Sine, Cos, Tan & Sec, for Physics he needs to know Newtons First & Third law of motion.
Your last point was
By the way senior QANTAS management pilots are being encouraged to do University courses in business.
Another point you've made makes me wonder whether you've ever recruited anybody, in any industry?
It's simple really all things being equal don't tell me you will recruit a year12 graduate than a degree holder, if you do you should be replaced.
DIVOSH!