World's longest mail run
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Titan
Boys you really need to do some research -
The Titan has more prop clearence then most of the types mentioned doing the run previously, i.e. c210 , cherokee six, Baron, c402a & b, Cheiftain.
It will also get into and out of short strips better then the c402a&b and Cheiftain. Perform better in 35c+ temperatures.
I agree the shrike would be very good, and have no coment on the Partenavia, as I have not operated that type. However a coment like Titan being the worst, you have no idea and are nowhere.
You better look again if you don't think the titan is just as STOL as some of the types that have done the run. Yes the shrike MAY out STOL the titan.
As for wet runways, the Titan once again comes in trumps as its tyre size is greater then most.
PAX view, the titan has great view because of window size and if you want to lookout, ask for a seat not on the wing. There are always pax that have seen it all b4.
Number of engine starts and shutdowns, the 404 is as easy as any other to start and perhaps a little easier then the C402a&b, Baron and definately easier then the Cheiftain.
The Titan has more prop clearence then most of the types mentioned doing the run previously, i.e. c210 , cherokee six, Baron, c402a & b, Cheiftain.
It will also get into and out of short strips better then the c402a&b and Cheiftain. Perform better in 35c+ temperatures.
I agree the shrike would be very good, and have no coment on the Partenavia, as I have not operated that type. However a coment like Titan being the worst, you have no idea and are nowhere.
You better look again if you don't think the titan is just as STOL as some of the types that have done the run. Yes the shrike MAY out STOL the titan.
As for wet runways, the Titan once again comes in trumps as its tyre size is greater then most.
PAX view, the titan has great view because of window size and if you want to lookout, ask for a seat not on the wing. There are always pax that have seen it all b4.
Number of engine starts and shutdowns, the 404 is as easy as any other to start and perhaps a little easier then the C402a&b, Baron and definately easier then the Cheiftain.
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Roost,
There are a number of advantages to a C404, but it is not the machine for the PAG run.
I know of a number of C404's in FNQ that have had their nose oleo snap off on rough / sloppy strips ( i.e 2 U/S engines and props, do the maths),
A titans engine cost around $85K, whereas a C402 is around $50K,
Titan is slow compared to a C402 160 V's 175 knots,
You might want to go and have a closer look at HOA's blades, theres definately damage there, and thats been operating pretty much exclusively off Tar Strips with the oleo's jacked right up,
The GTSIO engines need to be handled delicately, which is definately not the technique used on the 800 metre strips you would fly on,
Most of WWA's Barons go Check to Check without need for a trip to the maintenance hangar, can not say the same about C404 / C402 (A or B) for that case.
Compared to a baron, the C404's are more frequently eating starters and alternators,
STOL, you either have it or you don't, its not a case of selecting "STOL factor five", HOA is not STOL,
I'd reckon a Baron or Shrike is the machine, flick the day trippers and focus on the service to the stations, no Turbo's or GTSIO's, light foot print and a proven record in the Gulf / Western for the mail runs, good TAS V's FF.
There are a number of advantages to a C404, but it is not the machine for the PAG run.
I know of a number of C404's in FNQ that have had their nose oleo snap off on rough / sloppy strips ( i.e 2 U/S engines and props, do the maths),
A titans engine cost around $85K, whereas a C402 is around $50K,
Titan is slow compared to a C402 160 V's 175 knots,
You might want to go and have a closer look at HOA's blades, theres definately damage there, and thats been operating pretty much exclusively off Tar Strips with the oleo's jacked right up,
The GTSIO engines need to be handled delicately, which is definately not the technique used on the 800 metre strips you would fly on,
Most of WWA's Barons go Check to Check without need for a trip to the maintenance hangar, can not say the same about C404 / C402 (A or B) for that case.
Compared to a baron, the C404's are more frequently eating starters and alternators,
STOL, you either have it or you don't, its not a case of selecting "STOL factor five", HOA is not STOL,
I'd reckon a Baron or Shrike is the machine, flick the day trippers and focus on the service to the stations, no Turbo's or GTSIO's, light foot print and a proven record in the Gulf / Western for the mail runs, good TAS V's FF.
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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Roost; The posts by Apache and the Lefthanded one have said it all. Question for you; are you familiar with the run in question? ie have you flown on it yourself? Judging by your comments I would suspect not. It would therefore be prudent of you to do a bit of research yourself before criticising.
I stand by my statement that the Titan would not be suitable and would be the worst type for this run.
You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.
I stand by my statement that the Titan would not be suitable and would be the worst type for this run.
You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.
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HOA's props are done alot less then any of the Baron's. Once again do your research. Run my hand across the props today, they look fine, and some times of the year HOA does operate into more unsealed strips then sealed, once again do your research.
As for a degree of STOL, it is an infinate scale, you do the charts.
If you have flown a porter you may beleive there are different degrees when you go back to your shrike.
If you compare TAS:FF baron comes out better, try this one TAS:FF:KG payload. Because with out payload the formula is useless.
I know your wrong on your starters and alternator facts, the barons are doing them more often also, and there drives.
Pinky at least my coment is not far fetched, WORST: run the figures on a comet 4 or a Drifter.
Have been to all the strips, have done the research, have crunched the numbers in detail. That is safety, comfort, performance and safety.
So stand by your statement the Titan would be the worst, because I could name you a hundred worse types. I think you may have over done it abit.
GTSIO engines do need to be handled carefully, but that depends on the pilot not the airstrip.
"What will end up on the run is the right Aircraft for the job, the shrike was talked about, but hey if there are enough tourist and a titan is needed then thats what it will get if warrented. And that will make life easy for the pilot, they out perform the cheiftain, there great to fly, there nice to ride in. Would be a great job. . ."
I never even said the Titan would go on the job, I didn't say it would be the best for the job, just made a passing comment. And I stand by my coment. Would be a great job.
As for a degree of STOL, it is an infinate scale, you do the charts.
If you have flown a porter you may beleive there are different degrees when you go back to your shrike.
If you compare TAS:FF baron comes out better, try this one TAS:FF:KG payload. Because with out payload the formula is useless.
I know your wrong on your starters and alternator facts, the barons are doing them more often also, and there drives.
Pinky at least my coment is not far fetched, WORST: run the figures on a comet 4 or a Drifter.
Have been to all the strips, have done the research, have crunched the numbers in detail. That is safety, comfort, performance and safety.
So stand by your statement the Titan would be the worst, because I could name you a hundred worse types. I think you may have over done it abit.
GTSIO engines do need to be handled carefully, but that depends on the pilot not the airstrip.
"What will end up on the run is the right Aircraft for the job, the shrike was talked about, but hey if there are enough tourist and a titan is needed then thats what it will get if warrented. And that will make life easy for the pilot, they out perform the cheiftain, there great to fly, there nice to ride in. Would be a great job. . ."
I never even said the Titan would go on the job, I didn't say it would be the best for the job, just made a passing comment. And I stand by my coment. Would be a great job.
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Roost in the very short time you've been at WWA, you've seen very very little.
The "boys you really need to do your research" line is getting a bit old.
Quote: "At some time of the year HOA runs into dirt strips more often than tar ???", Lake Nash and ???? , and ????, and ????.
The Titan is a great machine, but not the one for the PAG mail run, your die hard "it's the best aeroplane in the world" attitude is sadly blinding the obvious.
http://www.crosswindsstol.com/prod01.htm , STOL is a kit, i.e the aircraft primary flight controls get modified to allow the aircraft to fly at slower speed.
Quote "I know your wrong on your starters and alternator facts, the barons are doing them more often also, and there drives", refer para 1.
Good on you for loving your job, but do some research before shooting your mouth off as there are people on this site that have forgotten more than you know about said topic.
The "boys you really need to do your research" line is getting a bit old.
Quote: "At some time of the year HOA runs into dirt strips more often than tar ???", Lake Nash and ???? , and ????, and ????.
The Titan is a great machine, but not the one for the PAG mail run, your die hard "it's the best aeroplane in the world" attitude is sadly blinding the obvious.
http://www.crosswindsstol.com/prod01.htm , STOL is a kit, i.e the aircraft primary flight controls get modified to allow the aircraft to fly at slower speed.
Quote "I know your wrong on your starters and alternator facts, the barons are doing them more often also, and there drives", refer para 1.
Good on you for loving your job, but do some research before shooting your mouth off as there are people on this site that have forgotten more than you know about said topic.
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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Has anyone heard how things are going with the new operator of the run? Seems awfully quiet.
You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.
You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.
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yes, It IS awfully quiet. The again, why brag about Sawtoothed props and excess braking, and GTSIO's not making TBO's ?
Then again, maybe it is all going well !
Is the Titan on the run ? How has it coped with "less than dry" strips?
Still seeing the photo of the C402 on it's nose at Mungarannie after a tight turn!
Whatever the outcome, enjoy the run. Some of the best flying you will do.
Then again, maybe it is all going well !
Is the Titan on the run ? How has it coped with "less than dry" strips?
Still seeing the photo of the C402 on it's nose at Mungarannie after a tight turn!
Whatever the outcome, enjoy the run. Some of the best flying you will do.
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Having watched closely this run over the last few years, I must admit that i thought the previous two mobs were a bunch of NFI's!
HOWEVER ... there is a new contender in the NFI re AVIATIOn awards categories!
What operator in their right mind will LEAVE PAX behind... deliver freight then return to pick up the pax..AND EXPECT TO MAKE MONEY?
I also heard that they had "maintenance" to be done on the Baron, so they ferrierd from BDV to Mt Isa, and replaced the BARON with a C182RG!!!
bet the punters loved that!
Perhaps the PA31 Wasn't the best a/c for the run. Perhaps the AC50 was a bit uncomfortable. But SURELY folks... the Baron has GOT to be one of THE worst a/c for a run which REQUIRES a lot of freight to be taken!
What happens next week ? maybe we will get a FORMATION of C172's? two pax in each and 30kg of freight ?
TK and CK may have been "not entirely honest with their employees", but at least they learnt SOMETHING in the 20 or so years that they were operating the run!
HOWEVER ... there is a new contender in the NFI re AVIATIOn awards categories!
What operator in their right mind will LEAVE PAX behind... deliver freight then return to pick up the pax..AND EXPECT TO MAKE MONEY?
I also heard that they had "maintenance" to be done on the Baron, so they ferrierd from BDV to Mt Isa, and replaced the BARON with a C182RG!!!
bet the punters loved that!
Perhaps the PA31 Wasn't the best a/c for the run. Perhaps the AC50 was a bit uncomfortable. But SURELY folks... the Baron has GOT to be one of THE worst a/c for a run which REQUIRES a lot of freight to be taken!
What happens next week ? maybe we will get a FORMATION of C172's? two pax in each and 30kg of freight ?
TK and CK may have been "not entirely honest with their employees", but at least they learnt SOMETHING in the 20 or so years that they were operating the run!
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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Olderbutyzer; Provided of course, that the amount of mail/freight that accrues during the next week is not too much!
As I have mentioned previously, I can remember several occasions when after loading all the mail/ freight at LEC and having only the required fuel to the next refuelling stop we were right on MTOW of 3342kg leaving YLEC.
You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.
As I have mentioned previously, I can remember several occasions when after loading all the mail/ freight at LEC and having only the required fuel to the next refuelling stop we were right on MTOW of 3342kg leaving YLEC.
You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Looking forward to returning to Japan soon but in the meantime continuing the never ending search for a bad bottle of Red!
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A long time twixt drinks methinks! Heard a whisper lately that the new broom is not necessarily sweeping as efficiently as expected. 
Anyone in the know out there have any definite info??
You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.
Anyone in the know out there have any definite info??
You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.
Thread Starter
Teletubby, no-one else knows what you're talking about, & quite frankly I don't think you do either!
DF.
DF.
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Teletubby must be talking about a pilot at WWA, who is alot more "experienced" ( polite way of saying old ) than the rest, that is leaving WWA and going to fly VH-LSB (B58).
IMHO and ernestly, he is one of the nicest blokes i've met in GA.
IMHO and ernestly, he is one of the nicest blokes i've met in GA.
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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11percent; Most interesting! I know of a pilot, reasonably experienced on the mail run back in ASA's day who would be available first thing yesterday! I believe that he has already contacted WWA.
Teletubby; What's up with you to get that bitter and twisted?? The differing opinion between you and the Left Handed one is rather startling.
You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.
Teletubby; What's up with you to get that bitter and twisted??
The differing opinion between you and the Left Handed one is rather startling. You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.