Why do weekend Pilots persist in making a million radio calls
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Why do weekend Pilots persist in making a million radio calls
Was out flyin today and could not believe the amount of radio calls that were made by a group of people flying into xxxx, surely circuit training teaches you how to space yourself in the circuit, tell me im winging, but fair dincum it went on and on and on and on.......... 
sorry,
Post should have been in GA forum
sorry,
Post should have been in GA forum
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Why do weekend Pilots persist in making a million radio calls
JSM, perhaps your understanding of the calender is at fault. As you say "Was out flyin today " and today is a TUESDAY. How do you connect that with a "weekend"
You also seem unsure as to what circuit training teaches. Forgive my rash assessment but you do seem a little light on aviation knowledge and practice. Could you be just playing with a PC Sim?
ding
How do you connect that with a "weekend" You also seem unsure as to what circuit training teaches. Forgive my rash assessment but you do seem a little light on aviation knowledge and practice. Could you be just playing with a PC Sim?
ding
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what im getting at is the fact that some people see it as a requirement to broadcast their position at 20nm, 15nm, 10nm, 8nm, 3nm and then every leg of the circuit. Now i am a big fan of radio calls, but when the radio is taken up unnecessisarily, to a point that others can't make important calls, thats when i think there is a problem, in all my training i was always taught to say what was necessary and thats all, if someone is conflicting with you then one would hope that they would call you.
I see this as a serious issue, im not looking to be slandered here
I see this as a serious issue, im not looking to be slandered here
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JSM, I'm only reading what you wrote. I am sorry to say that it appeared confused. Just what has flying on a Tuesday got to do with a weekend
You claim as "fact" that some people see it as a requirement to broadcast at a number of distances. Could it be that they are responding to THEIR perception of the traffic mix at a given time. If they perceive the need for a rt call, then so be it. You are not sitting in their seat and cannot honestly say you are also looking through their eyes (and ears). Again you are not in a position to adjuducate on the necessity or otherwise of somebody elses rt call. I have absolutely no problem with people making a rt call if they believe they need to, it's their call, so to speak.
Like "pohm1" it's the non talkers that concern me.
As I said, I am only reading and responding to what you wrote and the inconsitencies I have discussed here.
ding
You claim as "fact" that some people see it as a requirement to broadcast at a number of distances. Could it be that they are responding to THEIR perception of the traffic mix at a given time. If they perceive the need for a rt call, then so be it. You are not sitting in their seat and cannot honestly say you are also looking through their eyes (and ears). Again you are not in a position to adjuducate on the necessity or otherwise of somebody elses rt call. I have absolutely no problem with people making a rt call if they believe they need to, it's their call, so to speak.
Like "pohm1" it's the non talkers that concern me.
As I said, I am only reading and responding to what you wrote and the inconsitencies I have discussed here.
ding
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....Easy there dingo!
JM's got a good point.
Ive been flying OS for about 6 years and the thing I noticed straight away was the excess drivle associated with position reporting in the patch here in Oz.
I felt like getting on the radio and telling everyone to shut up! Tell me where you are and what your doing....dont try and engage me in a converstation about how we should seperate ourselves.........If I know where you are I will stay out of your way, or if I cant find you when I get near, Ill ask!
JM.....you have every right not to be slandered on this issue. After all it is a safety issue when you (and I ) cant get a word in edgeways, to report our postion when every other chatterbox insist on clogging up the airways with USELESS information. It is especially sad when there is only say, 4 planes in the patch.....
JM's got a good point.
Ive been flying OS for about 6 years and the thing I noticed straight away was the excess drivle associated with position reporting in the patch here in Oz.
I felt like getting on the radio and telling everyone to shut up! Tell me where you are and what your doing....dont try and engage me in a converstation about how we should seperate ourselves.........If I know where you are I will stay out of your way, or if I cant find you when I get near, Ill ask!
JM.....you have every right not to be slandered on this issue. After all it is a safety issue when you (and I ) cant get a word in edgeways, to report our postion when every other chatterbox insist on clogging up the airways with USELESS information. It is especially sad when there is only say, 4 planes in the patch.....
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JSM et al,
Might these weekend pilots be chattering so much because;
- they don't know any better,
- their licence training didn't cover this sort of airmanship.
Perhaps the training and experience of these pilots is inadequate and needs to be addressed?
What say you?
DP
Might these weekend pilots be chattering so much because;
- they don't know any better,
- their licence training didn't cover this sort of airmanship.
Perhaps the training and experience of these pilots is inadequate and needs to be addressed?
What say you?
DP
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Call me cautious but after 14 years of flying....I prefer to hear what's happening out there....it's the plonkers who insist on NOT making any radio calls that worry me......better too many than not enough
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I have no idea what you regard as an excessive level of radio usage but as it was said before, I would rather tolerate a bit of chatter rather than get surprised by an unexpected plane appearing in the windscreen. Student pilots tend to be nervous and be a bit excessive on the radio sometimes but without doubt, the worst example of utter blabber on a radio that I have ever heard was in the Bungles in WA where so called professional pilots just crap on with each other at will. This is on the area frequency as well as their own company freqs. " Passin' ya on the left Macka, behind ya Jacko, can't see ya robbo, where are ya johnno, " Then there is the annoying slang used on the area freq such as " XXX is a Scare-van, fifteen miles north and not going very fast, estimate the north east tip at time 12" etc etc.
Yeah, that's just hilarious really!
Without doubt, some blokes just love the sound of their own voice coming through their headsets.
Yeah, that's just hilarious really!
Without doubt, some blokes just love the sound of their own voice coming through their headsets.
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This post all came about because i was flying, a scenic, and there was a group of ACFT travelling in convoy, and im sure they must have had the PTT button sticky taped down, now when i am flying in a group, ( say spaced a mile or two apart) ultimatly we are going to end up in a circuit together, i always make a point of contacting the other ACFT (s) on company FREQ and sorting our seperation outfor the CCT, then when we all get there its easy, people flying in groups/ convoy can do this on 123.45 without any worries, this then leaves Ctaf, Multicom, Mbz whatever, free for those other people trying to carry out whatever operation it is that they are trying to do. There is nothing worse then trying to make a back tracking call, knowing full well that there will be knowone in the CCT for another 5 min and not being able to get a word in. Yes i know sometimes thats just the way it is, but surely its better avoided if possible.
P.S. at the end of the day i want to get home safely just like everyone else.
P.S. at the end of the day i want to get home safely just like everyone else.
SeldomFixit,
Exactly. Alerted see and avoid ensures that we don’t conflict with other aircraft and increases the probability of seeing other aircraft by knowing where they are, where they are going, where they are going to be and where they are coming from and it relies totally on our ability to communicate on the radio. I would much rather hear a simple call from someone than not – who you are, where you are and what you are intending to do.
To form a mental picture of where the traffic is and where it will be in relation to our own aircraft we need to know where to look. Simple.
AS
Exactly. Alerted see and avoid ensures that we don’t conflict with other aircraft and increases the probability of seeing other aircraft by knowing where they are, where they are going, where they are going to be and where they are coming from and it relies totally on our ability to communicate on the radio. I would much rather hear a simple call from someone than not – who you are, where you are and what you are intending to do.
To form a mental picture of where the traffic is and where it will be in relation to our own aircraft we need to know where to look. Simple.
AS
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Firstly, the reason for so many calls is usually a lack of training.
Secondly, "radio arranged separation" works if you've all got radio. However, for those above like 'Atlas Shrugged', don't lull yourselves into a false sense of security that just because you've been talking, that you know where everybody is. Oddly enough, an MBZ may be the worst place for this because the only true records of participation rates in MBZ/CTAF showed a lesser rate in MBZ.
Make the calls you need to, resolve conflict if there is to be one, and keep a sharp lookout!
G'day
[Edited for syntax.]
Secondly, "radio arranged separation" works if you've all got radio. However, for those above like 'Atlas Shrugged', don't lull yourselves into a false sense of security that just because you've been talking, that you know where everybody is. Oddly enough, an MBZ may be the worst place for this because the only true records of participation rates in MBZ/CTAF showed a lesser rate in MBZ.
Make the calls you need to, resolve conflict if there is to be one, and keep a sharp lookout!
G'day
[Edited for syntax.]
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JSM
I agree with you 100%.
Many is the time I couldn't get a regulation broadcast out because some twit is blabbing on to some other twit who is actually heading away from them. They then come to the the conclusion "Should be well clear then" (another ridiculous radio statement, as every pilot needs to be the judge of that themselves).
Many is the time I couldn't get a regulation broadcast out because some twit is blabbing on to some other twit who is actually heading away from them. They then come to the the conclusion "Should be well clear then" (another ridiculous radio statement, as every pilot needs to be the judge of that themselves).
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Victor Two
I would have thought all that time spent down at BEB, you would have welcomed the conversational R/T from other pilots.
And by the way, I have heard those flying the mechanical palm trees give non standard radio calls before.... or maybe you were refering to the AA pilots, not fixed wing pilots in general??
And by the way, I have heard those flying the mechanical palm trees give non standard radio calls before.... or maybe you were refering to the AA pilots, not fixed wing pilots in general??
JSM
I understand where you are coming from and agree 100%.
Talking alone does not assure seperation. How about the other guys up there that don't get heard because of
1 no free radio time.
2 over transmitted by some one who thinks we like the sound of their voice.
If more people thought about what they where going to say before they started flapping their gums they could half the amount of chatter on the radio.
I understand where you are coming from and agree 100%.
Talking alone does not assure seperation. How about the other guys up there that don't get heard because of
1 no free radio time.
2 over transmitted by some one who thinks we like the sound of their voice.
If more people thought about what they where going to say before they started flapping their gums they could half the amount of chatter on the radio.
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I always find it interesting that training always gets the blame for issues like this...
Quote (currawong):
"Why do weekend pilots make a million radio calls?
"Perhaps weekend instructors are teaching them to."
Quote (DirtyPierre):
"Might these weekend pilots be chattering so much because;
"- they don't know any better,"
"- their licence training didn't cover this sort of airmanship."
Quote (Feather #3):
"Firstly, the reason for so many calls is usually a lack of training."
What a load of %$#@!
This is like saying the reason YOU are dumb is because YOU had bad teachers when you were at school...give us a break...
Training does cover radio calls (how many, what type, what is mandatory etc.) - it has to. A good majority of flying instructors engender excellent radio habits in thier students.
Some people, after they get their commercial licence or private licence, like to think that they are God's gift to the air and like to be seen as sharp, witty, clever people who have something important to say.
As Victor Two said- it's not just your weekend warrior PPLs who have this problem...
Victor Two:
"Student pilots tend to be nervous and be a bit excessive on the radio sometimes but without doubt, the worst example of utter blabber on a radio that I have ever heard was in the Bungles in WA where so called professional pilots just crap on with each other at will. "
My 2 cents...
Quote (currawong):
"Why do weekend pilots make a million radio calls?
"Perhaps weekend instructors are teaching them to."
Quote (DirtyPierre):
"Might these weekend pilots be chattering so much because;
"- they don't know any better,"
"- their licence training didn't cover this sort of airmanship."
Quote (Feather #3):
"Firstly, the reason for so many calls is usually a lack of training."
What a load of %$#@!
This is like saying the reason YOU are dumb is because YOU had bad teachers when you were at school...give us a break...
Training does cover radio calls (how many, what type, what is mandatory etc.) - it has to. A good majority of flying instructors engender excellent radio habits in thier students.
Some people, after they get their commercial licence or private licence, like to think that they are God's gift to the air and like to be seen as sharp, witty, clever people who have something important to say.
As Victor Two said- it's not just your weekend warrior PPLs who have this problem...
Victor Two:
"Student pilots tend to be nervous and be a bit excessive on the radio sometimes but without doubt, the worst example of utter blabber on a radio that I have ever heard was in the Bungles in WA where so called professional pilots just crap on with each other at will. "
My 2 cents...
Feather #3,
That's not what I said.
I said that knowing where to look increases the probability of seeing other aircraft. It doesn't guarantee it.
A
don't lull yourselves into a false sense of security that just because you've been talking, that you know where everybody is.
I said that knowing where to look increases the probability of seeing other aircraft. It doesn't guarantee it.
A