Why do weekend Pilots persist in making a million radio calls
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: messemate way to bondi icebergs
Posts: 411
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Victor2 formation flying over the bungles hahaha as if that ever has happened. Its much better formating down the lake. Wake up the chopper guys were just as bad when I was up there. There are a few extra things said over the area East Kimberley CTAF freq but anything that lasts more than one or two words will be taken to an appropriate chat frequency.
Dave Incognito as per program you are on the cash and someone has not understood you ahh. Possibly a lack of education
haha. I think that all those groups (172, Comanche club) that fly up there are all up there in good spirits and its great to see large groups of people united in doing something we all love that is flying. BUT Jesus memories come flooding back from the Comanche clubs antics last year, memories...DaveIncog ask DH, we where flying down the lake together northbound at the time chatting on a separate freq not in formation cause he was in a caravan and I was in "the peoples champion" and obviously he couldn’t keep up. Now we were about 30nm out of ku and a whole armada of Comanche’s were roaring in on calls like "yeah mate I’m inbound 1/2mile from you Dave" etc "yeah mate IM 3 nm now" (not a call sign was mentioned) but the best of all about 10 of these calls we could hear on EK CTAF and they were supposed to be on KU MBZ, potential carnage. The rubbish continued with more shenanigans I won’t go into but nothing, nothing short of a shambles
Someone mentioned Saab operators making too much R/T. In my fairly limited career I have been operating in CTAF/MBZs with Regional airlines such as Impulse/Airnorth/REX and their R/T has been nothing short of exemplary. IMHO. If I was flying inbound and there were lots of aircraft and a few farmer Joe/weekend warrior types then if I was in a Saab per say than I would be making as many calls as is req to get a picture of where these others are before i flew my expensive aircraft and all those lives any closer. (maybe that’s why I'm still a piston/GA scum driver still, hahaha)
Dave Incognito as per program you are on the cash and someone has not understood you ahh. Possibly a lack of education
haha. I think that all those groups (172, Comanche club) that fly up there are all up there in good spirits and its great to see large groups of people united in doing something we all love that is flying. BUT Jesus memories come flooding back from the Comanche clubs antics last year, memories...DaveIncog ask DH, we where flying down the lake together northbound at the time chatting on a separate freq not in formation cause he was in a caravan and I was in "the peoples champion" and obviously he couldn’t keep up. Now we were about 30nm out of ku and a whole armada of Comanche’s were roaring in on calls like "yeah mate I’m inbound 1/2mile from you Dave" etc "yeah mate IM 3 nm now" (not a call sign was mentioned) but the best of all about 10 of these calls we could hear on EK CTAF and they were supposed to be on KU MBZ, potential carnage. The rubbish continued with more shenanigans I won’t go into but nothing, nothing short of a shamblesSomeone mentioned Saab operators making too much R/T. In my fairly limited career I have been operating in CTAF/MBZs with Regional airlines such as Impulse/Airnorth/REX and their R/T has been nothing short of exemplary. IMHO. If I was flying inbound and there were lots of aircraft and a few farmer Joe/weekend warrior types then if I was in a Saab per say than I would be making as many calls as is req to get a picture of where these others are before i flew my expensive aircraft and all those lives any closer. (maybe that’s why I'm still a piston/GA scum driver still, hahaha)
Radio Chatter
Actually as a newbie who has yet to solo I have a beginners comment to make. Its obvious that communications should be short, sharp and to the point.
Convoys on ground are just as bad with radio chatter. Maybe formation flyers should work on their voice procedure a little.
However, on another matter I think you need to know who the intended recipient of your message is to maximise the chance you will be understood and minimise the risk that your message will fail to register on another pilot.
Its all right for the experienced pilot to say
"MoorabbinTowercessna310academytwothousandinbound received quebec" as one blurted short word, but the faster and more "professional" the guy sounds the less chance that some of us weekend warriors are going to be able to decode it quickly. Moorrabbin Tower obviously can, but what about the rest of us?
I'd rather make too many calls and get it wrong and slow, and risk the ire of the "professionals" then shutup to avoid making a fool of myself and thereby make a fatal mistake.
Convoys on ground are just as bad with radio chatter. Maybe formation flyers should work on their voice procedure a little.
However, on another matter I think you need to know who the intended recipient of your message is to maximise the chance you will be understood and minimise the risk that your message will fail to register on another pilot.
Its all right for the experienced pilot to say
"MoorabbinTowercessna310academytwothousandinbound received quebec" as one blurted short word, but the faster and more "professional" the guy sounds the less chance that some of us weekend warriors are going to be able to decode it quickly. Moorrabbin Tower obviously can, but what about the rest of us?
I'd rather make too many calls and get it wrong and slow, and risk the ire of the "professionals" then shutup to avoid making a fool of myself and thereby make a fatal mistake.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: australia
Posts: 221
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That is an excellent point sunfish. Lots of commercial GA guys also blurt out their calls so fast that it makes no sense at all and their haste to get out the message in the shortest possible time just means that nobody understsands it. A total waste of time..... in an unrequired bid to save a extra second of airwave congestion. That makes bugger all sense in Australia where the airwave congestion is almost non existant compared to parts of Europe and the USA. You will hear lots of that as you get out and about too. Take your time, be clear, try and use the correct terms and format and all will be fine. Nobody is sitting there with a stopwatch timing you anyway so why the stupid need to rush calls.
Enjoy your flying!
Vic.
Enjoy your flying!
Vic.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Southern Western Australia
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What pisses me off
is the lack of understanding of short precise radio calls. How many time have you heard people answer a simple question from Tower, such as: "AAA, have you copied traffic?" To which the answer from so-called professionals is almost invariably, "Yes, that is affirmative I have copied ZZZ, AAA". Why don't the fools just say "affirm"/
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nice point sunfish, yeah guys who talk a mile a minute like they're Heathrow approach in the faux deep voice don't benefit too many people out there other than themselves. slow and steady wins the race.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just a quick point of something that you get on Multicom 126.7 that really p*sses me of:
You are in an area where you can receive 4 or 5 aerodromes on 126.7 and you hear:
"ABC, turning base for a full stop"
Nice work d*ckhead. What runway and which aerodrome?
You are in an area where you can receive 4 or 5 aerodromes on 126.7 and you hear:
"ABC, turning base for a full stop"
Nice work d*ckhead. What runway and which aerodrome?
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: between 800HP
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
radios
This is unbelievable,
I was at a meeting the other day in relation to the proposed chages to the proposed chages to the the old new airspace,and there was some representitive from the glider pilots association and he got up and made it very clear to all concerned that he thought it was his and his merry mens rights to fly around in controlled airspace with no radio or transponder,now correct me if im wrong but is that not a requirment for all aircraf or what.......
Why the hell doesn't CASA make it harder for these , as you say weekend warriers.They need to get serious and put the people that are out there everyday putting steaks in freezers....First.
RWS888
I was at a meeting the other day in relation to the proposed chages to the proposed chages to the the old new airspace,and there was some representitive from the glider pilots association and he got up and made it very clear to all concerned that he thought it was his and his merry mens rights to fly around in controlled airspace with no radio or transponder,now correct me if im wrong but is that not a requirment for all aircraf or what.......
Why the hell doesn't CASA make it harder for these , as you say weekend warriers.They need to get serious and put the people that are out there everyday putting steaks in freezers....First.
RWS888
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why the hell doesn't CASA make it harder for these , as you say weekend warriers.They need to get serious and put the people that are out there everyday putting steaks in freezers....First.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: A suburb near you...
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ding...
You seem to be a knight who's lost his shining armour, horse and maybe his sword! If you don't have anything constructive to say, don't!!!
Nice can-o-worms this one... nnnggguuusss!!!
rN
You seem to be a knight who's lost his shining armour, horse and maybe his sword! If you don't have anything constructive to say, don't!!!
Nice can-o-worms this one... nnnggguuusss!!!
rN
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unnecessary calls?
Try certain charter ops in Victor1 - everything from a chat frequency to an official company frequency apparently... and dont dare suggest they might like to think of keeping calls to CTAF business or you'll get some abuse as well.
Try Camden mbz - (or maybe even the tower) "Ahh g'day mate? what colour socks have you got on today?' etc etc
It aint the weekend warriors doing that! Just leave 'em alone, they are generally not the culprits.
Try certain charter ops in Victor1 - everything from a chat frequency to an official company frequency apparently... and dont dare suggest they might like to think of keeping calls to CTAF business or you'll get some abuse as well.
Try Camden mbz - (or maybe even the tower) "Ahh g'day mate? what colour socks have you got on today?' etc etc
It aint the weekend warriors doing that! Just leave 'em alone, they are generally not the culprits.
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Oz
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RabidNuts
I don't have a knighthood, I don't have any armour, I can't ride a horse and I haven't carried a sword since 1969.
This is a rumour network so who says you have to be constructive.
Perhaps if you lot didn't take yourselves so seriously and got down of your own high horses, you might actually gain some sort of benefit from pprune. After all, it is NOT a recognised authoritative source of pertinant safety of flight operational information.
I suppose none of you have ever fluffed a radio call in your apparent short aviation careers either.
ding
I don't have a knighthood, I don't have any armour, I can't ride a horse and I haven't carried a sword since 1969.
This is a rumour network so who says you have to be constructive.
Perhaps if you lot didn't take yourselves so seriously and got down of your own high horses, you might actually gain some sort of benefit from pprune. After all, it is NOT a recognised authoritative source of pertinant safety of flight operational information.
I suppose none of you have ever fluffed a radio call in your apparent short aviation careers either.
ding
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
After all, it is NOT a recognised authoritative source of pertinant safety of flight operational information.
Maybe so, but there are plenty of newbies who read it and take it as Gospel, so maybe we should take RABID NUTS advice and...
If you don't have anything constructive to say, don't!!!
JSM
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Oz
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Taking anything one reads on pprune as gospel would have to be the most stupid thing one could do.
So called 'newbies' would be better advised to consult their Chief Flying Instructors rather than give any credence to anything written here.
If you want to use the 'constructive' test then the majority of this thread fails miserably. Most of it is just whinging and whining about everybody else is wrong and the particular poster is the only one who is right/ correct/ smarter/ got the biggest richard thingy etc etc........................
ding
So called 'newbies' would be better advised to consult their Chief Flying Instructors rather than give any credence to anything written here.
If you want to use the 'constructive' test then the majority of this thread fails miserably. Most of it is just whinging and whining about everybody else is wrong and the particular poster is the only one who is right/ correct/ smarter/ got the biggest richard thingy etc etc........................
ding
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Strya
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I spend a fair amount of time doing transcripts of radio calls in MBZs and CTAFs. Like about two to three hours a day, so think I can comment with some accuracy.....
The organisation that has the most radio calls per arrival and/or departure and the most words per call are, way ahead of the others, the RFDS. Despite a bit of overkill their R/T is impeccable and they are always courteous to all. In fact they often call so high and far out that the same call is recorded by several places!
Then come the charter guys in the C210s etc, not many radio calls relating to position relative to the aerodrome but hours on end of the weather and various other every day things that are incredibly boring or unintelligable cr@p. Such a relief when they finally decide to "go company" to continue their conversation having clogged the freq for the last five minutes. By far the worst to transcribe. You find yourself longing for them to just SHUT UP so others can get a word in!
Helicopters say very little and are almost impossible to understand anyway...
The RPT guys. Impeccable R/T but rather slow in delivery. (Easier to type.)
Least words, most hesitiant but most relevant radio calls are made by the private flights.
Perhaps if pilots realised that everything they say on the radio is recorded and someone has to listen to it all they might "go company" more often! PLEASE!!!!!!
The organisation that has the most radio calls per arrival and/or departure and the most words per call are, way ahead of the others, the RFDS. Despite a bit of overkill their R/T is impeccable and they are always courteous to all. In fact they often call so high and far out that the same call is recorded by several places!
Then come the charter guys in the C210s etc, not many radio calls relating to position relative to the aerodrome but hours on end of the weather and various other every day things that are incredibly boring or unintelligable cr@p. Such a relief when they finally decide to "go company" to continue their conversation having clogged the freq for the last five minutes. By far the worst to transcribe. You find yourself longing for them to just SHUT UP so others can get a word in!
Helicopters say very little and are almost impossible to understand anyway...
The RPT guys. Impeccable R/T but rather slow in delivery. (Easier to type.)
Least words, most hesitiant but most relevant radio calls are made by the private flights.
Perhaps if pilots realised that everything they say on the radio is recorded and someone has to listen to it all they might "go company" more often! PLEASE!!!!!!
Misuse of the radio is not confined to weekend warriors.
I haven't forgotten the time I flew into Bathurst and couldn't get a word in at all, because the Hazelton guys were using the CTAF as their own company frequency....
I haven't forgotten the time I flew into Bathurst and couldn't get a word in at all, because the Hazelton guys were using the CTAF as their own company frequency....
Perhaps if pilots realised that everything they say on the radio is recorded and someone has to listen to it all they might "go company" more often! PLEASE!!!!!!
I'd love to be proven wrong....
Bevan..
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Strya
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Go right ahead, "listeners" are paid by the hour, talk as much as you like.
Of course the more you talk, the more the listener costs are per landing heard, so less of your landing fees are available for running costs of the aerodrome, the more of the burden falls onto the ratepayers and the greater the chance of fees being increased. Unless of course there are those with a divine right to use the infrastructure for free
there's always some who think they are!
One aerodrome is mostly RPT, and it's possible to "capture" about 20 landings in half an hour of listening. Another has mostly VFR charter and it can take an hour of listening to sort out the drivel and "capture" 10 landings. The landing fees are the same for both and the infrastructure similar. Which one would you want to be doing the budgets for?
Of course the more you talk, the more the listener costs are per landing heard, so less of your landing fees are available for running costs of the aerodrome, the more of the burden falls onto the ratepayers and the greater the chance of fees being increased. Unless of course there are those with a divine right to use the infrastructure for free
there's always some who think they are!One aerodrome is mostly RPT, and it's possible to "capture" about 20 landings in half an hour of listening. Another has mostly VFR charter and it can take an hour of listening to sort out the drivel and "capture" 10 landings. The landing fees are the same for both and the infrastructure similar. Which one would you want to be doing the budgets for?