USA Pilot Shortage
 

Airline expansion
Demand for pilots sky-high

Regional carriers fuel much of the market; some worry that companies may lower standards
By Paul Beebe
The Salt Lake Tribune

Article Last Updated: 02/07/2007 12:50:58 PM MST

Fresh on the heels of hiring 610 pilots last year, SkyWest Airlines intends to hire another 700 this year to keep even with the regional carrier's snowballing growth.

It will be a daunting task. Regionals are flourishing as they pick up less-profitable and shorter routes that national carriers no longer want to fly. The consequence is a shortage of commercial pilots, which some in the industry predict could reach a crisis level and others say has compelled some airlines to lower their hiring standards closer to government minimums in order to fill seats in their cockpits.

"We are looking nationwide. We have a full-court press throughout the system," said Necia Clark-Mantle, vice president of people for St. George-based SkyWest. "The market in general is pretty difficult."
SkyWest executives say the airline has not lowered its hiring benchmarks. Its applicants need 1,000 hours of flying time, including 100 hours piloting multi-engine airplanes in order to get a job interview, and its typical candidate has 1,800 hours of experience. The Federal Aviation Administration requires 250 hours of flight time for a commercial license.
"Anything above and beyond what is stated [in FAA rules] is a business decision on the part of the airline," FAA spokesman Les Dorr said.
Because SkyWest is unwilling to relax its requirements, it must work harder than some airlines to hire qualified pilots.

Great Lakes Airlines demands 750 hours and is not feeling a shortage of acceptable candidates, said Monica Taylor, a spokeswoman for the Cheyenne, Wyo.-based regional carrier. American Eagle, which is hiring 30 to 60 pilots a month, accepts as few as 400 hours if applicants complete pilot training at approved flight schools, spokesman Dave Jackson said. American Eagle is a subsidiary of AMR Corp., which also owns American Airlines.

SkyWest has posted help-wanted notices on its Web site, and it will conduct pilot career fairs in Salt Lake City and seven other cities this month. The airline wants to talk to pilots who fly for other regionals or who have been furloughed by bigger carriers. And it's combing through university aviation programs, looking for acceptable candidates.
There might be no time like the present to become a pilot for hire. Airlines hired about 8,500 aviators last year, and the pace should continue at that level or higher for the next 10 years, according to AIR Inc., which tracks pilot hiring. Aerospace giant Boeing Co. estimates the global appetite for new pilots at 17,000 a year through 2024.

"All I can say is it's the best time to get into the industry," said Mike Kraus, program director for the aviation studies program at Westminster College, which graduates about 110 commercial pilots a year, ready for the job market. "When you are born sometimes controls your destiny and opportunities."

The remarkable turnaround of the airline industry - whose fortunes ebbed after 9/11 - is behind much of the demand for pilots, said Kip Darby, president of Atlanta-based AIR. Much of the industry is returning to profitability after wresting huge pay and benefits concessions from employees, shedding expensive retirement programs and shifting more flying to contract carriers such as SkyWest. Rising fares and falling jet fuel prices are helping, too.

At the same time, the military - traditionally one of the best sources of commercial pilots - is retaining more of its aviators. And many pilots who leave the military are choosing other careers, underlining the instability in the airline industry that has pushed many carriers to extract big pay and benefit cuts from their employees.

"The next big crisis is a lack of qualified crews," said Ed Thiel, a Delta Air Lines captain and member of the executive council of the Delta unit of the Air Line Pilots Association. "The airlines are having difficulty finding qualified applicants. There are not as many people coming out of the military route, and it's almost prohibitively expensive to go through the civilian route, while the career has degraded to the point where it doesn't make sense to go into the business."

Aspiring pilots who enroll in aeronautical colleges can expect big tuition bills. An undergraduate degree at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Florida costs almost $100,000. Thiel said nonacademic routes to a job at a major airline can be as expensive and take 10 years to complete.
All the same, a job isn't hard to find after a pilot earns a commercial license.

Two years ago, Frank Ayers, chairman of Embry-Riddle's flight department, was able to keep graduates on as flight instructors for a couple of years before they landed a job flying for a regional airline or other employer.
"I'm lucky now if I keep someone six months," Ayers said. "Don't get me wrong; it's a good problem to have. Despite all the bankruptcies, it appears that the increased demand for air travel is solid. Airlines have finished downsizing and have figured out how to fly profitably."

Analysts are betting that most airlines will report strong earnings in 2007. Ray Neidl of Calyon Securities thinks that American Airlines could earn earn $4.06 per share, or about $889 million, with United Airlines earning $4.80, or abut $531 million. SkyWest is expected to be the most profitable regional carrier, earning $2.71 a share, or close to $173 million, this year.
"There is a relationship between airline profits and hiring," AIR's Darby said. He believes that some airlines will earn as much as $1 billion a year as their profitability builds during the rest of the decade. "If that relationship holds true, we will see a lot of hiring."

The pilot hiring that SkyWest is undertaking is part of a broader plan to expand its 10,000-employee work force by up to 4,000 workers this year. In part, turnover is pushing the airline to accelerate pilot hiring. Regionals historically have been where young pilots assemble enough flying experience to move to bigger airlines.

About 10 percent of SkyWest's pilots leave the company each year. Some pack it in when they reach age 60. (Last week, the FAA said it would propose raising the compulsory retirement age to 65.) Others leave for jobs at other airlines, said Camille Ence, manager of pilot recruitment.
Most pilots who leave hope to hire on at national airlines and air cargo companies, which pay more and give better benefits, Darby said. FedEx pays an Airbus A380 captain with 10 years of experience $17,464 a month, according to WillFlyForFood.cc, a Web site that compares pilot pay. An American Airlines captain flying a Boeing 767 earns $11,008 a month. SkyWest jet captains with a decade of experience earn about $3,000 a month. First officers are paid $1,425 a month, according to WillFlyForFood.
Although some bankrupt carriers have turned their retirement programs over to the government Pension Benefit Guarantee Corp., most retirement packages at the bigger airlines are still defined-benefit programs instead of 401(k) programs. Bigger airlines also provide more rest time between flights, Darby said.

The key reason why SkyWest must hire hundreds of new pilots this year is its growing alliance with Delta. In November, Delta selected SkyWest Inc. to take over some of the regional flying business operated by its Comair subsidiary. This month, Delta will shift the flying of 12 Canadair regional jets to SkyWest, The company also is waiting to hear whether Delta will award it another 131 Comair jets. Each aircraft needs a rotation of nine pilots.
Delta also granted eight of the 70-seat jets to SkyWest when it bought Atlantic Southeast Airlines in September 2005. Those aircraft are scheduled to be delivered between now and May.


It is getting crazy in the US, Big Big pilot shortage for regional airlines FO, CFI and Part 135 operatores.

2007 has been a very good year so far and I hope it keep going:ok:

It's a wave that aviation experiences once every ten years or so.

It's really nice to see hiring, but at the same time I have difficulty with the notion of regionals complaining they can't find enough pilots when they pay them outrageously low salaries...

Aviation could have a serious problem in the future.

It's very expensive to become a pilot, and the working conditions are such that a lot of people who would make the best pilots are forced to look at other careers because the labor conditions are so bad...

Where I live a half-decent house costs $500,000.... How the heck are you supposed to provide that for your family on a regional pilot's salary?

As fun as flying is, who wants to raise a family as one of the "renting" class... That's just not responsible.

USA pilot Shortage
 

The post below is from another website that discuss the pilot shortage in USA, I thought it would be interesting what this guy have to say about 135 operatores in USA, so here it comes:


135 Operators are in serious danger. I do not give them many more years in operation. Not many 135 operators will be able to stay in business.

Really? Yes and that because of the Pilot shortage that is already a reality. Desperate pilots taking any kind of job for the hours or as a step into experience necessary for applying to the regionals are soon history.

Who will accept what the small 135 night cargo companies have to offer? flying all night in old equipment freezing like hell, loading and unloading their airplanes many times per night and being forced to fly in any kind of weather, accepting mechanical problems in the name of operational interest? and that being paid 1700 to at the most 3000 per month before tax?

The regionals are taking every trainable pilot available in the market and we have only seen the start. The Regionals needs 7000 to 10000 new pilots during 2007. The big airlines will be seriously start hiring at the end of 2007 and even more during 2008 taking most of the new pilots from the US regionals and they will need even more pilots. The international market need for US pilots mainly in Asia (China, etc) will increase dramatically.

Who will want to fly for the 135 operator? All night? for what? for nothing?

Corporate and Charter operators will also increase the demand for pilots. The 135 operators that will survive are the ones that will be able to increase the salaries seriously and will have to treat their pilots like kings to make them stay. Who will financially be able to do that? The days of the night working slaves will soon be over..............................


One thing I just want to mention to this post is that Very Light Jets are cooming to the market this year and we should expect somewhere around 1000 of them. Insurance requires two pilots for each. So, we are looking about 3-4000 pilots. Flight Schools in US this days consist of Indian and Chinese students, and the schools are crying for CFI's. A lot of students are on hold for CFI shortage.

It will be very interesting to see what really going to happen in a year or two,,,,, I'm so glad I just graduated from college with a professinal pilot degree:D.

You're lucky to be finishing now.

I finished right after 9-11... you needed a million hours just to be a lowly CFI back then.

However, until wages come up the industry has no right to complain about shortages, real or imagined.

Too many people have been deterred from aviation because the working conditions created by the industry have been extremely poor.

Who wants to go $100,000 in debt for a job that pays $17,000 per year?

Also, things look good now, but what about when the next down turn hits?

The drive to get more bums on seats..not only in the US but also in Europe..is driving down air-fares to ludicrously low levels and cost cutting across the board by the operators is taking its toll... what is the fascination with turning aircraft into Greyhound buses ?
I'll be moving to the States later this year and have been looking at the ads for pilots... a total joke... You'd need horses and chains to get me out of the house for what's being offered... in most cases it wouldn't cover even a modest mortgage... I'm going into property and will buy myself a small single to have some fun with. The employers can go whistle for my 8000 hours.

There's no shortage. Flight schools and businesses that sell employment such as Air, Inc love to spread those rumors...but there's no pilot shortage. There never was. Don't get sucked into that noise.

FAA Part 121 rules playing catch-up with ICAO standards
 

The soon to be enacted FAA Part121 age-65 rule will help to keep many well qualified airline pilots in the USA. Presently, many ALPA age-60 "retired" USA airline captains have benefited from Direct Entry positions at foreign air carriers. Curiously, since last November, these over age-60 pilots are now also operating their foreign registered birds into their home turf. :D

Sorry to butt in but I thought the US paid good wages for pilots?

Isn't the UK (EU) the same.

When you guys mention working conditions, how different is it in the US to the UK etc?

The reason I ask is im debating in my head whether to go for the FAA or JAA airline license, im in limbo...not good.:ugh:

:uhoh:

Com 1... as always with these things there will be a wide variety of incomes according to who / what and where you fly... pretty good are the mid and large sized business jets for large corporations... bottom end are the 135 piston and small turbo-prop pilots willing to fly for food... On the whole you'll be much better paid in Europe with a JAA licence... but the JAA is very much harder to aquire... roughly equivilent to one of the US aviation college BA degrees and hugely more expensive... also costs of living can be a lot higher in many parts of Europe...especially if you're flying out of a London airport..

The much lower cost of living in many parts of the US make it attractive and generally I find that even taking the lower salaries / medicare /federal taxes / state taxes ad nauseaum into account, people generally have a better qulaity of life in the US and more disposable income... you need a VERY LARGE income in most of ( northern ) Europe to enjoy a good quality of life...unless maybe you want to live in Scotland.

The salaries I've been looking at in the US are often quoted as $15 / $20 perhour... with 100 hours pm less tax I would be looking at around $1600 pm ... about 800 UK pounds per month... !!!!!:ugh: :yuk: :*

Wow thats pretty crappy for a salary, sorry to hear that.

Im keeping my options open anyhow. In regards to obtaining the JAA, in what instances is it harder to get?

Is it harder aswell like studying and more difficult questions etc?

Cheers

Com 1
There's no comparison at all.... I did my UK licence many years back and it was tough enough then... I think I sat about a dozen maybe thirteen exams.. minimum time for any maybe 1 to 1 1/2 hours...several were 3 hours... we had to sit ( I think ) maybe 10 at one sitting over 2 or 3 days... 7 passes got a partial and we were allowed to sit the 2 or whatever failures again... if you'missed more than 2 or 3 then everything had to be re-sat... things like Met are split into 3 seperate exams..met Practical / met Theory and Climatology... each 1 or 1 1/2 hours... Nav and Flt Planning were each 3 hrs and pretty tough.... many don't finish in that time. I believe that since the introduction of JAA it's become harder in some ways...easier in others.. not really up on that.. On the plus side, the flying exam is pretty starightforward... consists of general handling mostly and done in a single... the Instrument Rating is done seperately at some later date...neither are very demanding except that the student has very low hours. To some extent the oral exam necessary in the US makes up for the joke written test ( I sat my written at a computer...hadn't looked at a book for 14 yrs and got 87% after just 40 minutes... and I'm not too bright ! ) If the examiner senses any weakness in your knowlege he'll probe until he has you writhing in agony... I'm told some oral tests last for up to 5 hours or so.. I was lucky and got through it in about 2 hrs...
The FAA ATPL flight test was without doubt the toughest flight test I've ever endured... 2 1/2 hours of bloody hard work.. I have to say the guy ( Hank Smith..Long Beach Ca. ) was exteremly fair..( also extremely HUGE )

Hiring aircraft in the UK is about twice that of the US. Someone else will have to advise you on minimum hour requirement... I've lost touch.

If you're a US citizen or have lived there and are comfortable there then I would say go the US route.. if you have any need now or in the foreseeable future to have to fly in Europe then you will have to go for the JAA..

Hey, is it possible to get both JAA and FAA? Is it more hassle though and alot more studying?

I dont want to snow myself under until I get pain in my head lol.

here is the link, http://www.naples-air-center.com/dev/index.php?view=67

this flight school only offers FAA http://www.naiasc.com/

This offers both, http://www.flyoft.com/

Just wondering what your view would be on these places?

P.S Is it possible to go to the states and obtain a PPL then come home and go in maybe a year to do the rest?

Cheers :ok:

Sarah :)

There are certainly advantages to doing as much of your training in the US as possible... not only much cheaper..especially with the dollar now regarded as almost a third world currency...but also in places like Florida and the west Coast the weather being so much friendlier means you can get the thing done a lot quicker... the more you fly the easier the whole thing comes together.. many in the UK struggle to find the money for the hours and then struggle to find the weather to fly.. this means often that the first half hour of any lesson is trying to catch up on what's been forgotton since flying maybe 3 weeks ago... bit like ski-ing really :)

There are a number of JAA qualified schools now in the States... looking through the mags will suggest a few.. as for their reputation... try the wanabee forum on PPrune.. or any other forum you think might suit...the Mods will move the post to where they think it should be...
One rule applies to any training organisation no matter whether it's FlightSafety or Arnies Flite-Club... NEVER PAY LARGE AMOUNTS UP FRONT !

Pay them enough in advance to see you through the next week... if they're not happy with that then pay someone else.

As for getting both JAA and FAA.... do that only out of necessity... as I did... remember... the FAA is still pretty useless outside of the US and in the more remote areas of the world... That doesn't include Scotland := :O

Do you think it would be in my best interest to go for just the JAA license or have the FAA too under my belt just incase? Cost wise its about the same at NAC but probably alot more studying and commitment involved but i would have the best of both worlds i guess.

Im guessing the US isn't a very desirable country to live in anymore with the $ being so low?

Com 1.

If for some reason you have the right to live and work in the US then I would suggest you go for it, you're the right age to get into aviation and this is a very good time to do it..... But there's no way that the FAA licence should cost anything like the JAA costs in Europe so if that's what they're quoting then shop around.

Im hoping to do it in 2-3 years as i am saving for it.

I was just wondering about desirable countries to live in etc and the best license to get. Is it alot more work getting the FAA and JAA?

Also what is the Canadian license like?

Its a Canada Vs America question.

:)

Canada is closer to the JAA licence I believe but still not as tough, better you ask someone from canada... far fewer opportunities up there and most of them cold. If you do the JAA licence and then add on the FAA the FAA will cost next to nothing as you'll already have the hours... sitting the FAA exam is maybe a couple of hundred dollars and you won't fail it... sitting the JAA exams costs well over $2000 and you may have to sit them more than once if you fail to get a partial pass, which happens often enough.. even re-sitting a couple of partials will set you back maybe $400 plus travelling... If money is a major concern and you can work in the US I suggest you go that route and once estblished in the industry with a couple of thousand hours behind you, then think about whether you want to come back to Europe...
Anyway... whatever you choose... very best of luck :D

Hey, thanks for the advice i appreciate it :ok:

Do you think i'd be better of just getting the FAA license and training over there then building hours and obtaining the JAA there too, i heard it can be done which is good :)

Commander1 be carefull coming to US, we are facing a CFI shortage at the moment and it just started, IT WILL GET WORST,, belive me it will. I'm a flight instructor with 800 tt and I will be gone soon, THANK GOD. Regionals are picking up every pilot with 500 tt and 50 multi. Some of regionals pick you up with an commercial license and multi engine ad on it. Don't want to mention any names here.

If you call the flight school they will say no, there is no problem we have plenty of instructors. I will call it Bu.....:mad: ....et. They want your money.

There are several Indian and Chinese students that are on hold at the moment, due to the shortage.

I have several friends at the regional airlines and they said the real hiring will start within few months.

I'm getting offer left, right, center to come work for flight schools as a CFI. A flight school offered me between 30K a year if I sign a one year contract with them. := Don't get me wrong, I love flying, but there are better and bigger airplanes out there. AND IT WOULD BE NICE TO FLY ONCE WITHOUT EXPLAINING OR TEACHING A STUDENT PILOT AND MAKING PEANUTS!!!!!

Few flight schools have actually started to change their policy, you are on salary instead of amount of hours you fly with students.

Make sure you do your research before you come over here to US. I spoke with a former Airline Captain few days ago and he said we are going to see the biggest pilot shortage in Aviation history ever.


Good luck, and you could PM me if you need any help! :ok:

I agree with Amin. I see a serious CFI shortage happening. I have observed more students, mainly Indian/Chinese waiting to start/continue flight training at local schools. Western students are considered easier to teach do to language issues so they seem to have an easier time finding instructors. A couple of friends who are CFI/retired airline pilots say they have more potential students than they can deal with. They used to just have one student at a time just to keep busy. Now they are continually picking up students whose CFI has left in the middle of their training for a regional job. Real issue for the non-us student to have to deal with an instructor switch mid stream. But I see them becoming burnt out and don't think they will continue to accept the workload much longer.

I think the GLOBAL pilot shortage is here to stay...the States and the EU will always cycle with ups and downs...but the global market is amazing. Plenty of folks from the regionals are going to CO, FedEx, UPS, SWA etc.

Just watched the BBC special report "Take Off" on the airline growth in India alone....wow!!!

Plenty of regional folks going to international carriers as well :ok:

not @ all an equal ballgame:=
as far as i know, all FAA or JAA lic. pilots can fly anywhere
ive been flying in quite a lot of countries now
meeting with FAA &/or JAA pilot's, in africa, asia you name the country!
but, when it comes to a ICAO lic. holder.........(like me)
your chances to get a job in USA or EU go down the drain
you need to be an EU or USA citizen as a minimum
so far Ireland is the only EU member accepting ICAO lic.
when it will be the time for an ICAO holder to go USA
apply for a job , & just fly out with the validation of his lic.
like everybody else does elsewhere
:cool:

The regionals are struggling to find people because it's a pretty ****ty job. Many of us have gone on to other parts of the industry and I'm not just talking about major airlines and foreign carriers like Cathay and Emirates. Regional pilots have discovered that flying for Net Jets or another good fractional beats the hell out of regional flying. Regionals that used to be halfway palatable to fly for now suck mightily. Case in point - SkyWest. I have friends there with 400 hours time away from base and 10 days off thanks to a computerized bidding system that is used to make up for crew shortages. These are not junior people.
Corporate flying is attracting some regional pilots as well. A good corporate job can offer a better lifestyle than most majors.
The VLJ's will offer employment opportunties soon.
The regionals are in trouble. For them there is a pilot shortage. They built a business model based on unrealistic wage assumptions and now they can't find people.

In short there is no pilot shortage in the US. The good jobs have plenty of applicants. Do you hear Southwest complaining about lack of applicants. FedEx and UPS have no trouble recruiting. The only ones with a problem are bottom feeder regionals. Anyone with reasonably decent quals can go elsewhere. Why would someone want to put up with the abuses of working for a regional if they can make more and work less elsewhere. Plus you no longer have the mainline legacy carrier job carrot dangling in front of you. Work rules and compensation at some of the legacy carriers are a joke. They won't retain people like they used to.

NoFlow sums it up admirably... there's little evidence of a genuine shortage ... perusing the major job-listing web-sites... Avianation... Climbto350 etc over a few weeks you'll find that the only employers regularly re-running their ads are the regionals, part 135ers and night-freighters flying the piston prop and small turbo-prop a/c. These guys have had it cushy for so long paying joke money they're reluctant to wake up to the new realities.

Time for the Bean Counters to get the calculators out and then try to explain to the boss that the Lake House may have to wait while.:E

As I have mentioned in my earlier posts and I say it again. The pilot shortage that we are going to face is within regional airlines (First Officers), Part 135 operatores and CFI's. The major is not hurting now, but they will in the future.

When I started flying for 4 years ago we were about 140 students in my private pilot ground class and 18 instructors at the college. Last semester we only had 34 guys in the private pilot ground class and 8 instructor total. As you can see the number has been dercreasing. This is not only my school that had decreaesed numbers, several other schools in US I have been in touch with had the same problem.

The point I'm trying to make here is that not many youngsters In US want to be pilots anymore, due to the lack of moeny they are making and the money they have to spend to be a pilot. AND SUDDENLY WE HAVE THIS BOOOOM IN AVIATION IN US!!!!! THE DEMAND IS INCREASING AND NOT MANY PILOTS!!! If you walk in to a flight school this days the only students you see are Chineese or Indians!!! where are the US guys??:(


I'm aware that the pilot shortage has not reached the major airlines yet,,,but it will!!! Give it few years and you will see!!! Many major airline captains are at the age of 60 so you do the math!!!:)


good luck to you all :ok:

Amin

Lot's of people are getting calls from, CAL, JetBlue, SWA, FedEx and UPS... Not a pilot shortage? I got hired to fly heavy freighters ON THE SPOT this past winter because of expansion and people were moving on to better paying companies.

Every market is expanding...
Fractionals
ACMI Freight
Regionals
LCC's

Not to mention Delta, CAL FedEx and UPS are still hiring...

And...for once...I'm trying to be positive!!!

Can anyone really afford to join the regionals???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RayMaswju1A

ThornyCactus,

It is not that the schools/CFI thinks that you are a terrorists because you are not an US citizen. The bigger problem is the limitation of H1B seats and the the eligibility requirements for the same.

1) There are only 65,000 H1Bs every year. And that includes all the IT, Medical, Education folks as well. Every year hundreds of thousands of people apply for work authorisation visa. This year, they are anticipating to reach 65000 application by April 2nd (the visas are awarded in October). So this year USCIS has decided to go with the lottery system. So everyone has an equal chance.

2) The USCIS does not recognise the CFI job as requiring H1b. Remember the school will have to advertise for an American before they can sponsor for visa.

3) All applicants for H1B must be at least undergraduates or hold an equivalent undergraduate doploma.

4) To do all the paper work, schools will have to hire lawyer, advertise in the local news papers and then go through the motions. All this takes about 6 months of preparation and anywhere between 4-10 thousand US$.

Now you tell me, why would a school go through all the hassle and spend all this cash when they can wait for a few months and hope to hire a local CFI!!!!!

To DesiPilot,

Thank you for enlightening me! You have your points right! :D

Since the schools are facing FI shortage, I am just suggesting a way whereby foreign FI can be extremely helpful. There are many advantages for securing foreign FI.

I suppose you knew countries like India’s, China’s and Taiwan’s aviation market are ‘booming’. Within 10 years down the road, there are lots of foreign students seeking aviation jobs. Perhaps, you should understand why the economic of certain countries are so good, the reasons are, they are opening to all money-making ideas, accepting foreign talents into their countries and making their nation more prosperous!

Let’s do a simple mathematical model of how to capture a big market:
100 wealthy Taiwanese students, 100 filthy rich Chinese Mainlanders students (not proficiency in English) as well as 100 rich Indian students are seeking flight training in US, probably the Indians will stay in US for their flight training.

Whereas for the 200 potential Taiwanese and Mainlander Chinese students might seek training elsewhere (out of US) due to language barrier. The bad thing for US is, these students are going to generate handsome revenue to another country!

If the schools really want to make money, the foreign FI (Mandarin speaking) will be a main attraction to these Mandarin speaking students. I am not joking! I met lots of Taiwanese students in US, and they were having a hard time during flying lesson. In fact, I recommended them to other countries where they can get appropriate lesson conducted in both English and Mandarin concurrently.

Yes, I do agree the process of HIB VISA application is troublesome and costly. Now, if the flying schools are willing to sort out the foreign flying instructor issue (right in the beginning) and employ foreign instructors, there is no doubt to get/attract these wealthy rich Chinese speaking students to the flying school!:)

Please note: Students are paying thousands and thousands of money to the school and comparing to a school forking out a few thousands on a H1B VSIA for a foreign instructor and bonding him for 3 to 6 years. The sum of money invested on a foreign FI is just only a tip of the ice-berg!!!

Please do not forget that H1B VISA (just only a few thousands) for foreign FI is a long term investment for the school and these foreign FI will going to attract and taking care of these “super” rich students. If these rich foreign students are happy and well taken care-of in the school, they might even consider investing in the flying school too! Please do not underestimate the financial capabilities of these Chinese, Taiwanese or Indians students!

This is a business tactic which Mr. Bill Clinton presented this idea on his speech years ago! This idea works!

Real Story 1
There was a real life account that I have experienced with a Indian friend. Whose dad was impressed by the teaching of an Indian CFI. So, his dad bought a few Diamond-twins planes for the flying school!

Real Story 2
I have a Thai-Chinese friend working in Australia as a flying instructor. You guess, that particular flying school in Australia is almost filled with rich Thais!

I have lots more stories to share but that’s enough to share with you the above two stories.

Do not blame it on USCIS. It is a lame excuse.:= The final decision is still lies on the school’s management whether will they sponsor H1B VISA or not. They can definitely do it if they want to!

Before I end here, my philosophy for you today is: “small money rolls out, whilst big money coming on your way!”. That is one main philosophy for successful Chinese millionaire today!

Foreign language speaking FIs are not as valuable as they once used to be.

Due to the new ICAO English Language Proficiency Regulations, all ICAO countries are required to have aircrew, ATC and Aviation Operatives that can speak English to a minimum of 'ICAO Level 4 - Operational'.

If you want to have a UK RT licence, you will need to reach 'Level 6 - Expert'. This is the level that China is aiming for at this time and they are making great progress thanks to them taking the initiative and hiring in Aviation English experts for training purposes.

I have been in a position to advise Asian and Indian flight students about this requirement and it is changing how they make their choices for training.

Sponsored cadets are now being tested for this requirement by numerous airlines in Asia and my advice to any of you planning to take either route is to invest three to six months of your time in improving your language skills, otherwise you may find yourself with a shiny new airline transport pilot's licence and not enough English language radiotelephony skills to be employed by anyone.

Also remember that there is an English Language Level requirement for a flight training visa in the US.....check your I-20 form and you will see it. It says something like "Does the student fulfil the English language requirements for this course?".

Your school may put "yes" on the form, but if the Border Patrol guy has any doubts, he'll refer your visa application. Remember, even though you have an M1 in your passport and arrive at the US port of entry - you can still be turned away or reffered to the Immigration Officials at Passport Control if there are any doubts as to your ability to communicate.

My advice - do it correctly. Get proficient in English, you will be better at understanding the 'big picture' at airports and you'll be adding to the safety of yourself and others - and as a pilot who has shared the skies of Florida with groups of sponsored students with deplorable levels of Aviation English, you'll be making life easier for us all.

It's at the critical points where it really counts. For example, an aborted takeoff of a G5 in Florida; foreign student pilot on final is told "Go around" by the tower.

The response. "Ground, go ahead"

Please read this
 

Please ladies and gentelman take your time and read this!!! This is from an article I saw today.

PASSENGER PLANES SIT IDLE BECAUSE NO PILOTS WANT TO FLY THEM.


PILOT SHORTAGE is a CAUSE for change.

What is happening in the Airline Industry? There are no pilots to fly those multi-million dollar airplanes. Pilots, including wannabe pilots, are changing careers. They are not choosing a professional flying career because economically it is not feasible.

Airline Transport Pilot Certificates issued from 1996 – 2005 have steadily declined from about 7,500 a year to 4,750 in 2005 an almost 40% decrease in qualified Captains. This is creating a Qualified Airline Pilot shortage, and a few things can happen.

WHAT AIRLINES WILL NOT DO

Pay higher salaries.

As a passenger, I was a little discouraged to know that my Captain, First Officer and Flight attendants (Who are responsible for my life from Point A to Point B) are worth only a few sheckles of the ticket price I paid. That’s right, they are paid $18.00-$20.00/hr. And to make matters worse, they are restricted by the FAA to a maximum of 1,000 of work a year. Many can legally apply for food stamps.

Imagine if air commerce stopped in the US for a week or even two. It did with the unfortunate surroundings of 9/11. However, the demand for air flight also dropped dramatically surrounding that incident. Demand actually dropped lower than supply, putting carriers out of business. Now imagine if Demand remained the same and the supply (meaning there were no pilots to fly those planes) ended for two weeks. Eventually, airlines would pay higher salaries, benefits, etc. in order to take advantage of the increasing demand.

WHAT AIRLINES WILL TRY TO DO

1) The airlines will continue to reduce costs anyway possible. They will spend money on lobbyist groups in Washington D.C. to relax rule making against them. The current Jet Blue debacle begs a “Passenger Bill of Rights.” This has the airlines up in arms. They DO NOT want to be restricted on how to operate. They also do not want to be held accountable for their failures.

In addition, the airlines are currently lobbying for the General Aviation user fee policy. The airlines want to charge the GA pilot thousands of dollars a year to use weather service, fly in the airspace system, land at airports, etc. The airlines are paying the majority now, but that may soon pass to the GA enthusiast.

What does that mean in the future? Fewer pilots for the airlines due to less pilot starts because of prohibitively high costs to entry. This decision by the airlines will only compound their “pilot shortage” problems, cost problems, efficiency problems, management problems, etc.

2) Airlines will reduce minimums. Pilot minimums will become lower and lower until the new SIC will sit right seat in a 250 person passenger jet with only 250 hours of experience. This individual will have been trained to so-called airline standards; however, he/she will have never soloed in ANY plane. It’s being proposed abroad because of the lack of numbers of qualified pilots to fill vacancies.

The Airlines will do this to increase supply of (LOW HOURLY WAGE) accepting pilots. There are a lot more pilots who have under 1,000 hours willing to work for $18-$20/hour vs. 3,000+ hour pilots willing to work for those type of minimum wages.

The airlines are forced to do this, because they do not want to increase wages for their frontline employees, those responsible for the safety of millions of air travelers yearly. They are trying to entice pilots with anything except respectable salaries. Here are just some examples.

American Eagle (American Airline feeder) : Reduced minimums to 850 hours of Total Time (TT) and is now allowing the pilot candidate to choose their domicile. (no cost to Eagle)

SkyWest (United Express, Delta Connection and Midwest feeder): Just lowered their minimums to 850 TT, now pay for training, lodging and supply uniforms

Mesa (United Express, Delta Connection, and US Airways/America West feeder): Lowered their minimums to 500 TT and are offering $5,000 bonus to those pilots with United Express experience.

Republic Airlines (Frontier, American Connection, Continental Express, Delta Connection, United Express and US Airways Express): Offering a $2,500 bonus to new hires after passing Initial Operating Experience (IOE) if one has regional jet experience. They need over 1,000 pilots this year.

Trans States Airlines (American Connection, US Airways and United Express): They have begun finally paying for lodging while at training and have offered a small salary based on 60 hours a month, though training is over 120 hours per month.

Express Jet (Continental feeder): Hiring at 600 TT and rapid upgrades.

3). Airlines will be forced to hire and retain “SUBPAR” Employees. Those that lack the skill, quality, efficiency and know-how of what it takes to be in the airline business. They will force themselves to not “Fire” or “Terminate” employment of those in violation of rules or policies. They can’t afford to eliminate workers, because they are so short staffed, and cannot fill vacancies with current employee policies, wage contracts, etc. This leads to settling for marginal performance which will begin the complete degradation of the airline industry and experience in the United States.

4) Airlines will try to consolidate and/or split. They will do this to
a) Ensure favorable long term contracts. (SkyWest merger with ASA) and to reduce air transport supply in the market place (thus pseudo increasing the number of pilots available to fly the fewer planes). Airlines will then be able to charge higher fees for the increased demand that is present. However, if they are too aggressive too much consolidation could create transportation substitution alternatives. (Bus, train, private planes, etc.)
b) Cut costs. They will try starting new companies in order to bypass labor union strangleholds against a company lowering wages (Go Jets/Trans States and Mesaba/NWA/Compass Airlines to name a few).


OVERSEES COMPETITION

Many oversees airlines are hiring US pilots at far greater wages, they include free housing, no taxes, allowance for a car, etc. It's happening already. And U.S Airlines are NOT reacting; they are not going on the offensive to retain pilots with better wages, QOL, benefits, etc. They are trying to trim fat where fat doesn't exist, change regulations, merge, and do all sorts of other things instead paying an acceptable wage and focus on GROWING the business.

Right now US airlines are trying to keep the business that they have vs. concentrating on setting themselves apart from the others. These oversees airlines are smart. They see this and are taking advantage of an industry that is broken. This could lead to economic disruption in the US.

It’s ironic. US companies have been outsourcing cheap labor in foreign markets for decades; now these foreign markets are employing our skilled labor at far greater compensation than can be obtained in the United States.


WHAT PILOTS MAY, WILL or SHOULD DO

Leave the Industry or Country. Massive pilot fleeing helps to reduce supply of those able to operate planes. Captains, both Junior and Senior will flee to where their time invested will provide them with a greater dollar reward and better QOL. As Captains flee, FO’s will welcome the short term increase in salary until they feel compelled to leave as well. It’s happening already in the industry. If the economies of scale are greater and the opportunity cost is lower for NOT being a pilot, an outflow will happen causing massive dollars to be lost by airlines not being able to provide enough supply for demand. The Pilot’s unwillingness to settle for poverty wage will eventually force airlines to 1) Pay more or 2) Reduce qualifications or 3) Go out of business.

Imagine if airlines paid $55/hr to a 1st year FO, $70 for his/her 2nd year, etc. You would get more qualified, skilled and seasoned pilots. Pilots might consider holding out to work for a certain airline, and may even choose to stay with a company long term, thus reducing continuous training costs for the airlines and maximizing employee profitability.


WHAT THE PUBLIC WILL DO

The public will continue to fly. The public stops flying when cost becomes to probative or when SAFETY is compromised (like 9/11). Should any of these two scenarios happen, the public will choose to fly less, consider alternative transportation methods or not fly at all. When this happens the U.S.A will take a severe hit to economic growth. The U.S relies on the transportation industry to move goods and services that create jobs which in turn keeps the economy rolling along. If and when that stops, something has to start it rolling again. (Pilots Wanted signs will appear)

WHAT THE U.S GOVT. WILL DO
If the airlines fail to entice pilots to work through higher salaries, QOL, benefits, pensions etc., you can bet that the govt. will mandate to airlines to provide MINIMUM salaries for pilots OR they will provide supplemental assistance (subsidies) to companies or pilot groups in order restore transportation and promote the “economic need, welfare and desire” for the pilot/individual to choose a career in aviation.

1) The government has already guaranteed airline pensions. They bailed out the airlines because the airlines are incapable to bail themselves out.

2) The airline lobby group is so strong that they just relaxed the pilot age requirement from 60 to 65. Here is a very current real time example of how Govt. is getting involved today. This will offset the pilot shortage by about 3,800 over the next 5 years. Just a small amount, but enough to cause a slight worry for all on how strong the airline lobby is.

3) In addition, the FAA needs to hire over 15,000 controllers during the next 8-10 years. The starting salary for new controllers is greater than those of airline pilots and the benefits package is far superior to any airline. For many, a choice in controlling may outweigh what the choice of being a pilot. http://www.thetracon.com/atcjobs.htm


WHAT THE NEWS MEDIA COULD DO
The news media might do well spending more time talking about potential outcomes of a “Pilot shortage” and “Low Wages” as well as the “Severe Safety Concerns” of these Low Time pilots with extremely new decision making skills.

Many don't know that their "newbie" First Officer might be an 850 hr Total Time 50 hr Multi-engine pilot, who only first saw the technologically advanced Jet Cockpit Glass display only 3 weeks prior and whose longest x-ctry trip was 250 nm in a Cessna 172. Imagine, if they knew this and demanded that qualifications were higher for airline pilots.

In addition, the public assumes pilots are well paid. They don't know that many pilots NEED to have part-time jobs to supplement their income. The public doesn’t know that many pilots are too tired to fly because they have to work extra jobs. The public doesn’t know they are at risk.


Pilots and the Airlines know what conditions are currently like, and how those conditions affect each. However, the public and government don’t know or care at this point, because everything is moving along smoothly. That is because it isn’t an issue for them now. It is only an issue when it affects them OR when they know it MIGHT affect them. We now have the recent Jet Blue debacle showcased by the media. The public (consumer) is now demanding change.

Am I being overly simplistic in suggesting a relatively straightforward solution to this dilema... at least in part ?

Put the bl**dy fares up !

Why should people expect to go coast to coast or trans-atlantic for a few hundred dollars... ? raise the cost of a ticket... fewer people will fly, fewer costs to the airlines (inc fewer pilots) ... better standards of service and comfort to those who do fly... less hassle at check-in and security gates, better salaries for airline staff ( inc pilots ) better standards of safety...

Let the public pay for what it wants.. who knows... flying as a passenger might even become pleasurable again. In the terminal I might feel less like I've become lost in a trailer park and on the aircraft I might not feel as though I've mistakenly boarded a greyhound bus.

Trend In Aviation
 

To Farrell,

My previous message was implying that foreign students are comfortable and looking forward to train with instructors that have the same naïve language as theirs.

I have a Mainlander Chinese friend who scored ‘A1’ for his General Paper in GCE ‘A’ Level. He is so used to Mandarin and he even chosen a flying school in Australia that has a Mandarin speaking instructor! Lots of his Mainlander Chinese cohorts were there too! Simply because the selling point of the school is using a Mandarin speaking instructor to help them in their flying lesson.

Yes, I agree with you that English proficiency is a must in aviation especially flying. But…who cares!

There are many aviators flying in India are using Hindi, flying in Indonesia using Bahasa Indonesian, flying in China using Mandarin! Who really cares! If you can demonstrate the safety of flying, the authority doesn’t going to jump on you! In fact, if you speak perfect English and showing-off your power in your English language during communication in the air, you will be most unwelcomed and you are causing a big stir in the control tower and flyers in these countries!

I met a few Taiwanese guys who speak ‘lousy’ English and could have some problems in understanding. You know what? The airlines in Taiwan absorbed them! Not because of their inproficiency in English!

Let me gives you a case-study
Put yourself in the shoe as a basic flyer learning to fly. Supposedly, a Russian and an American flying instructor (both are equally good in teaching, except the Russian’s English is not on par with you) for you to choose, which one will you take?

If the Mainlander Chinese and Taiwanese are able to get their professional licence, and airlines are accepting them, then who cares?! These rich chaps have their right to choose their own flying instructor, afterall they are paying lots of money!

Pilot Shortage?
 

No problem. They are working on bringing them in from South of the border.

"My previous message was implying that foreign students are comfortable and looking forward to train with instructors that have the same naïve language as theirs."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If there are so many of the foreign students that need flight training, and it can best be done by foreigners as well, WHY DON'T THEY SET UP FLIGHT TRAINING SCHOOLS IN THEIR OWN COUNTRIES???????

There's nothing magical about US airspace. Your reasons are just excuses to get the foot into the door of the US.

If anyone wants to get here easily, they can spit at our laws and run across the virtually unguarded southern border millions of Mexicans do every year.

Roadtrip,

Let me see if I can inform a Boeing 747-200 :suspect: Captain why we have so many foreign student in US. The first questin you should ask yourself is why the US government Issue them student visas to come here to US???

First of all countries such as India, China, Malysia, etc.. have not the resources that US have for flight training such as airplanes, instructors and other things you need to get your license. The cost of flight training is MUCH cheaper and MUCH MUCH easyer compared to other counties. You can pretty much get your commercial+IR+ME in 9-10 months in US with a cost about 30 to 40ks, maybe even chaeper. Once they are done these students go home and convert their license and get picked up by airlines flying Airbus 320, ATR, or Boeing 737.

So, have you figured out why your government issue them a student visa?? If not, let me tell you it is all about money. These students come to US and spend 30 to 40k to US flight schools, they also pay US government significant amount of money for their visa process, and once they are here in US they have to pay TSA (transpotation Security Administration) 130 US dollar before starting their training. So you do the math how much money your government is making to send these guys over here. And don't forgett the schools have to pay TAX too :D.

AND MOST OF THEM USUALLY GO BACK HOME TO FLY AIRBUS OR BOEING,,NO NO THEY DON'T WANT TO STAY HERE. A shiny airbus is waiting for them.

I hope this info change your thoughts about us international students that seeks training in USA.

Good Luck :ok:

One aspect of this thread was talking about allowing foreign flight instructors work permits in the US. There's nothing complicated or special about setting up a flight school. Maybe governmental regulations in the home countries make it extra hard, but that's a local issue. If the need is so great in these countries, why don't their governments keep the training money in their own country and encourage flight schools to open up there.
Getting light airplanes and maintaining them isn't hard. Setting up a classroom and syllabus isn't expensive or difficult. For primary training, you don't need expensive or difficult-to-maintain simulators.
It seems to me that an Indian or Malaysian, or even Aussie company could set up a great flight school with not much investment and make a good profit by attracting south Asian students and teach in their native language, and be able to charge less than the relatively high cost of living and learning in the US.
I know a lot of Brit students like to train in Florida, but I think that's because flight training in the UK is pretty darn expensive, the weather is less likely to cause delays in training, and Florida is a plane ride away. Also with the extreme weakness of the dollar, the US is cheap for Europeans.

Post Age 60 pilots
 

The FAA Age 65 rule will take at least two years to enact, in the mean time experienced Captains go overseas or to WalMart. The ones who are forced overseas are bound to lower the bar on wages once more. After all what jobs are there in the USA for a sixty year old?