training duration comparison

[Arpan_G]

Hello everyone,

I've seen lots of colleges for flight training all over the world. Europe, Asia, Middle East, South Africa and much more.

When I was researching the USA flight schools, I saw that they finish the course in approx 6-8 months whereas in most other countries around the world the duration is averagely 12-18 months.

I want to know why there is such a big difference in the duration. I've searched a lot on the internet but didn't get any solid answers. What's the reason for USA colleges for finishing in much shorter time than other places?

So all you people who have trained in USA as well as in any other country who has faced this diff please let me know why is it so.

PS: Not criticising the USA, just posting a query.

Thank You
Arpan Ganguly

[James331]

They get the job done, just be careful not to end up in a puppy mill like ATP Inc.

University of North Dakota has a nice program, also includes a college degree, but it's over 18mo I think.

IFTA in California I hear good things about.

If you want some real stick and rudder skills and CFIs with thousands and thousands of hours, you can get your CPL and AG training in all tail wheels at AG-Flight in Georgia.

It's also much easier to fly in the US, far less BS compared to the rest of the world, that might be a factor in the time difference. We also are more into teaching the things you really need to know, vs getting overly deep in theory, beyond what a pilot really needs.

Many if these programs have less classroom time and rely on self study.

[Arpan_G]

Thanks for replying.

I've seen some flight schools in USA. For example, American aviation academy in El Cajon, Century Air in NY etc. How good are these schools I mentioned? If you have any feedback about them please let me know.

I'm kind of interested in Century air...they seem to have a good program and the price is also decent.

Let me know about these schools or if you have some thing much better in mind please do let me know. And thanks again for replying

Cheers
Arpan_G

[cyrilroy21]

@Arpan G

I hope you are aware of the situation back in India is really bad for fresh pilots with 6000 unemployed and increasing by the day....

Moreover you will need to give DGCA papers ( which I highly recommending clearing first before you head anywhere )
Conversion to Indian DGCA license is small nightmare to face upon return and no Indian carrier will look at you without an Indian DGCA license in hand

Dont forget that airlines in India expect you to bear the cost of the type rating
This cost is over and above the money you pay for obtaining the basic CPL
In IndiGo this about 34,500 USD
In Jet Airways its 20 lakhs plus 10 lakh bank guarantee
In Air Costa its 35 lakhs

Lots pilots dont take these costs into consideration when deciding upon the pilot career

[kycfi85]

There's nothing wrong with ATP. They provide the resources necessary for you to become a pilot. With most flight schools, it's what you make of it. I have seen good pilots and bad pilots from 61/141/military. It's just the way it is... At the end of the day, we all have to fly to the same FAA standards and get through training programs at whatever job we work.

[Arpan_G]

thanks for replying guys...

and I still am not sure whether i want to return to india after the training is done cause i know that employment as a pilot in india is as tough as rocket science.

I'm thinking of doing a CFI rating then work as an instructor till i have enough hours to apply to any US airline company....then if all goes well I'll start thinking about major carriers like emirates, etihad, BA etc.

Till then, hope it all goes well....


Cheers
Arpan_G

[TheBigD]

I went through ATP and I turned out OK. The guys that entered ATP who already had 4 year university degrees; for the most part had a better go at it. The reason; ATP doesn't hold your hand in training; so the guys with the degrees knew what we had to do and studied on our own without being prompted.
Arpan, honestly in your case, I would choose the most inexpensive flight school you can find. You will not get a job in the States without a green card. No airline will sponsor you. With that being said, you need to convert your FAA certificates to Indian certificates. Thousands of unemployed CPL holders in India. So my advice is that if your heart is set on an aviation career, find the most inexpensive place to fly that has a good reputation. Forget about flying TAA aircraft; steam gauges in a well maintened C152, PA28 will do the trick. Seriously, I'd look in places in Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana with cheaper costs of living and cheaper flight schools. No need to spend more money on the training because when you get back home the probability is that you will be in the same spot as the thousands of unemployed Indian CPL holders.
Good luck and remember NO regional will hire you without a green card. And in the States to fly for a regional you need a ATP certificate. A real ATP not a eurocentric "frozen" ATP aka. CPL with ATP written exams passed.

[cyrilroy21]

@Arpan_G

I am guessing nobody has told you that your pilot license is not an automatic permission for the rights to work in that country

If things were that easy for an Indian Citizen to just randomly work in the U.S after graduating from flight school then the number of unemployed pilots in India would have been much less than it is now

A country is not going to let a foreigner to come and work there unless they have a shortage in that profession among its locals
Eg : Doctors , Engineers going to the U.S
Experienced Foreign Captains flying with the airlines in India

There is no shortage of pilots in the U.S .

To put that that into perspective the DGCA CPL license issued since the beginning of Indian Aviation is running at around 13,200 right now i.e approximately 13,200 CPL's have been issued since the 1st license went to JRD TATA in 1930's
As you can imagine the number of active pilots + unemployed is less than 10,000

The U.S Majors and low cost carriers combined employ about 60,000 pilots . And i havent included the thousands that fly at the regional level or in non scheduled ops or air cargo

As you can see there is no reason for the U.S Govt to grant a working visa to a foreigner to come and fly there

Hence the all the employers in the U.S will require you to already hold permanent residency ( aka green card ) or hold U.S Citizenship in order to work there

You are going to find similar requirements in countries with a well developed Aviation industry .
So airlines in Europe like BA , lufthansa , KLM , Airfrance etc require you to have permanent residency in Europe or hold an EU citizenship ( in addition to local language requirements )

The airlines in the Middle East like EK , QR , Etihad etc are the few that accept all nationalities due to lack of applicants from its local citizens .
But they usually require an ATPL and 2500 hours on Jet in order to apply

You can take a look at the careers section of various major airlines around the globe and you will realise its not that easy for a pilot to jump wherever you feel like


Here is my advice

Got and get a regular college degree ( non aviation ) so that you will have something to fall back upon should the aviation career not work out or should you become permanently unfit
While studying in college you can apply and obtain DGCA Computer number , study and pass the DGCA CPL exams and RT exam by the WPC

Once you graduate look at the market once again and then decide if its worth it
A CPL will take at the most 1-2 years of your life . A college degree and the experiences and lessons you learn along the way sticks with you for life

Choose wisely....

[James331]

First off ATP is crap, the "they don't hold your hand" translates to their instructors don't instruct worth crap.

I did my initial ATP at ATP, I held around 3,000tt at that time, ranging from CFIing to turboprops, been through a few schools and a few CFIs, ATP gave me the worst instruction I have ever received, basically the "CFI" is just a glorified seat warmer / safety pilot.

I've also heard if you're in their zero to hero CPL program, you don't get much, if any, solo time in their twins, it's all two student with one under the hood and the other acting as safety pilot, however you both pay full pop for the crappy trainer twin.

Like I said, I'd stay away from there.



Now onto you working in the US after you earn your CPL, it ain't going to happen, shy of you gaining US citizenship through marriage or something.


You might want to look into working in indo or Africa to build some hours after your CPL, there are some good threads on that subject on this site.

Blue skies

[TheBigD]

They dont hold your hand, as in they dont spoon feed you. I had a good time at ATP and had some pretty good instructors. Like I said your mileage may vary. I guess having a mechanical engineering degree from on of the top universities in the world (located in the Bay Area ) didnt't hurt as I didn't need anyone to spoon feed me. Like I said most of the college guys did ok at atp.
We can agree to disagree. I can see why some people hate ATP and why some love it. Like i said peoples mileage may vary.
The only thing I question sometimes is my sanity in choosing this profession.
P.s. when doing the two pilot cross county time building, you pay half the cost of the plane.....

[kycfi85]

BigD, I agree. I have taught at and worked with different flight schools. Those being 61 and 141 college programs. Good and bad experiences everywhere you go.

Also, MOST places will not allow you to solo a multi. That's pretty standard due to insurance reasons.

[Arpan_G]

@James331

Speaking about Africa.....I'm sure South Africa accepts an FAA commercial license?

Also then i would'nt have to convert it into a SACA license

[James331]

Well they will convert, but I doubt you're going to be flying in South Africa (RSA), Namibia and Botswanna is where the low timers go.

[Arpan_G]

hmm

how long does it normally take though for the trained students to gather up around 1000-1500 hours to meet airline requirements?

Approximately speaking....


Arpan_G

[gear up job]

Arpan_G

I think you need to do some homework. Some of the questions you are asking only you can find those answers and if you want to become an airline pilot, then you need to start working hard even by doing your own research!

[Transsonic2000]

Arpan_G:

I understand your desire to become a pilot and that you are highly motivated no matter what other people tell you! This is on one hand good, but on the other hand it could end in a great and quite expensive disappointment! And you wouldn't be the first and only one ending up in a dead-end-road.

Don't get me wrong on this, but "gear up job" is absolutely right! It's quite obvious that you're a novice to aviation and that you need to do your homework, because some of your questions have been asked many times before here on the forum. I somehow have the impression that the answers you've received so far don't meet your expectations and you simply keep on asking until you get the answer you wish to hear.

You already received some really good advice from peolpe with a lot of experience in aviation, from which you can benefit and find the best possible approach to your endeavor. For instance "cyrilroy21" provided some excellent advice and it's obvious that he knows the Indian system and Job market situation very well, it would be irresponsible to disregard his information. But there are also other people here who know the aviation business very well and they also gave you some pretty good advice!

Regarding your above post, 1500 hr have absolutely nothing to do with airline requirements, this refers to the hour requirements for the ATP license.

Take a look at the following link: Airline Transport Pilot Licence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Basically all you need to fly commercially or for an Airline is a CPL/IR and usually a multi-engine rating (AMEL).

[TheBigD]

Just a small correction.
In the States, to fly for an airline, you need an ATP; it is the law now.
And yes in other parts of the world the previous poster is correct in that you need a CPL to work for an airline; but that is just a minimum and competitive minimums are higher (i.e. ATP certificate etc).
In any case Arpan, in addition to having the appropriate pilots certificate, you need the RIGHT to WORK for that country. Good luck, choose wisely as to what you do; don't believe the hype from the flight schools; and DO NOT get into an obscene amount of debt to get into this profession.

[James331]

I'd wager the average new hire has well beyond ATP mins too.

There is much more to aviation than airlines, don't narrow your career down before it even starts.

Start training, get your first job, second etc and ENJOY THE RIDE

[gear up job]

James331

You are right on the money! Couldn't agree more with you lad.

Alot of these youngster's are always in a rush for that shinny jet. They tend to forget that in the aviation world, you are there for a good time and not for a long time!