Pilot shortage in the US?

[Likeitis]

I do and nearly every person I know who works in such an environment gets bent over by their coworkers and managers because they refuse to play the game. It would be nice to work in an utopia of actually getting promotion and pay by the body of your work but that's as rare as the passenger pigeon.

[A Squared]

Originally Posted by Likeitis

It would be nice to work in an utopia of actually getting promotion and pay by the body of your work but that's as rare as the passenger pigeon.

I'm guessing that you have never actually worked at a career outside of aviation. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I can't think of another explanation why you're view of the rest of the non-aviation world is so badly flawed.

Are there dysfunctional organizations with managers who place favoritism above competence? sure, they exist, but they're in the minority. The key is, if you find yourself in one, recognizing that, and getting a better job at an organization which values and rewards competence. Your ranting notwithstanding, the latter outnumber the former.

[Likeitis]

Actually I have held many positions outside of aviation. In high school I worked on a dairy farm and in retail. While in college I worked as a mechanic and in a hotel. After college I work in the medical field and learned to fly while doing that work. Moved on to law enforcement for a few years and worked part time as a CFI and charter pilot. Last 17 years I've worked in the airlines both foreign and domestic and both union and non-union.

My wife has worked her entire career in a merit based system and she has went from the bottom to the V.P. level of every company without playing the games but she has seen time and again the douchebaggery of the system and she would much rather a more defined system instead of relying on the typical MBA immoral management types who time and again disappoint even the lowest of expectations. At every stop along the way she should have been promoted much sooner but they always had to start with the men, then some connected persons kid and after all the unqualified people had their shot she was promoted and surprise surprise, each fricken company took off under her direction. Three separate companies she decreased expenses by at least 20% and increased revenue by over 30% within a year. Guess what? She lost her job at the first two companies because she wouldn't hire someone who wasn't the most qualified but they had connections.. I'm guessing the current company owner will try to make her hire his Tommy Boy like son into her department if/when he graduates. So my fingers are crossed that he is on the 9-10 year plan. I think he is still a sophomore after 4.5 years. The kid couldn't find his ass with both hands.

I think its the exception, not the rule to have a honest merit system the really goes off your qualifications and not who you know, who you do or who you screw over.

If you found a place that works, congrats.

[lifeafteraviation]

What are these other ways to protect from favoritism, brown nosing, back stabbing, nepotism, etc because in the history of the world it hasn't been accomplished.

Really? Never?

From my experience the only people who want merit based system are people who excel at brown nosing, back stabbing and general douchebaggery.

Forgive my quote but that's kind of a "douchebaggy" thing to say. In my experience those who don't do well in a merit based workplace are slackers, incompetents, and self centered people with a strong sense of entitlement.

Likeitis... It sounds like your wife has got one hell of a raw deal in her career. That sucks. In any case, you just posted your resume and life story...probably should delete that for the sake of anonymity.

I just don't understand why people are so passionate about protecting a system that causes lower starting pay for everyone and locks them into a job. It's much better to have a free market where you build your qualifications and if your present company doesn't appreciate the professional services you provide in exchange for a fee you take your skills elsewhere.

It's interesting to note that in China where labor unions are illegal, management has found other ways to retain pilots. They hire them out of college and spend massive amounts of time and money on their advanced education and training and in return make them sign a lifetime contract that requires a huge fee to break (understandable considering the investment). Of course other airlines frequently purchase pilots from one another along with their contracts and certificate rights so pilots can actually petition for new jobs, it's just a totally different process.

Foreign pilots work under much shorter typically three year contracts which are much easier to cancel but it's still difficult to switch jobs within China because of that control your company has over your certificates.

Fortunately we don't have such a system in the US where we are slaves to the company....or do we? Chinese pilots tend to make higher salaries on average than pilots in other countries so they are hardly slaves. Relative to their overall economy and other professions in China they are far above the rest of the world. We certainly have other problems but I firmly believe free market is the way to go. Seniority lists are counter intuitive to free job markets.

I also hear the argument about needing seniority list for enhanced safety but with such sophisticated regulations and company SOPs designed to curb abuse and management pressure (as well as stop pilot unprofessionalism) it's not really a problem anymore. Many highly professional and ethical airlines and flight departments operate safely without unions or seniority lists. On the other hand, I've worked for highly unethical airlines with unions and seniority.

Also...unions can still exist and function without seniority lists.

The lowest paying and least professionally fulfilling jobs I've every had were were working for airlines with seniority lists....that's my experience. I suppose if I had got lucky and picked a better airline early on and stuck with it for ten or more years I might feel differently but I think I could still objectively understand the detrimental effects it would have had on my career.

[A Squared]

Originally Posted by Likeitis

Three separate companies she decreased expenses by at least 20% and increased revenue by over 30% within a year. Guess what? She lost her job at the first two companies because she wouldn't hire someone who wasn't the most qualified but they had connections.

Those are some pretty outstanding numbers. To realize that sort of performance with someone's company, than have them can you over a buddy hire, seems, well, extraordinary. To have it happen twice in a row seems even more extraordinary. I'm skeptical that we're getting the whole story here, but no matter. Even if it happened exactly as you say, here's what you're missing:

If she went to work for a company run on a seniority system, she wouldn't have made it to VP the second time, she would have been hired as a junior file clerk (despite previous management experience) and she wouldn't have made it to the VP's office until everyone hired earlier than her had left the company or been promoted above here. That's what seniority does. I'm pretty sure that didn't happen. I'm pretty sure that in her successive jobs she was hired, and advanced within the company, based more on her abilities and previous experience than purely her date of hire. Perhaps not as rapidly as she'd like, but faster than other employees with earlier hire dates I'd wager.