Pilot shortage in the US?
So what you guys telling me
Is people get their license and then
Wait at home and hope for a phone call
From somebody with a job offer
With 6 figure salary
Is people get their license and then
Wait at home and hope for a phone call
From somebody with a job offer
With 6 figure salary
And it's not going to be a six figure salary.
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I'm totally agree with you guys about
The low salary in the regionals.
My point is American eagle offer 5k
Bonus for pilots to go fly for them and they offer
This bonus because there are not pilots.simple as that.
Like a said early work for the regionals is a starting point
No one offer a job a fresh commercial pilot or fresh ATP pilot
A job on a 747 or on a GV.
You guys keep talking about low salary
But no one suggest a different route for a better pay job with a little experience
Pilot.the majors want a 1000hrs pic in jet
And the only way to make those hours are in the regionals
The low salary in the regionals.
My point is American eagle offer 5k
Bonus for pilots to go fly for them and they offer
This bonus because there are not pilots.simple as that.
Like a said early work for the regionals is a starting point
No one offer a job a fresh commercial pilot or fresh ATP pilot
A job on a 747 or on a GV.
You guys keep talking about low salary
But no one suggest a different route for a better pay job with a little experience
Pilot.the majors want a 1000hrs pic in jet
And the only way to make those hours are in the regionals
The 5k signing bonus is next to meaningless. The company can up the number of pilots applying and have a larger pool to choose from because pilots will think they're getting extra money. And they are, but not much. Say the airline figures they'll keep the pilot four years. And say there guarantee is 75 hours a month. that's 3600 hours they know they'll have to pay the pilot. That works out to a $1.39 an hour raise. And if you fly over guarantee or stay longer the "raise" becomes even less.
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It's just a way to lure people in without making long-term, contractual changes that would significantly improve terms and conditions over the long run, like, say over a career.
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I wish they made the requirement of 1500 hours in europe
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RA4000,
I know lots of guys who left the regional airlines because pay and conditions were not great. Some went back to instruct and become career instructors (some making up to $5000 per month), some went to corporate aviation, and some quit aviation all together to become school teachers, real estate agents, policemen, stock brokers, and bankers. Nobody in the USA is really sitting at home waiting for a call.
There is definitely not a shortage in the USA, but there is a lot more movement than Europe, so maybe to you it appears to be a shortage.
I know lots of guys who left the regional airlines because pay and conditions were not great. Some went back to instruct and become career instructors (some making up to $5000 per month), some went to corporate aviation, and some quit aviation all together to become school teachers, real estate agents, policemen, stock brokers, and bankers. Nobody in the USA is really sitting at home waiting for a call.
There is definitely not a shortage in the USA, but there is a lot more movement than Europe, so maybe to you it appears to be a shortage.
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Zondaracer
Your comment doesn't make any sense
I have 3 friends that worked in the regional
1 in Skywest and now is at the ethiad
The second was a transtate and now works
For the Cathay and the last one is still at American
Eagle 90k in Dallas,own a house and love is lifestyle.
Maybe your friend don't love aviation that much.
And just looking the numbers if the airlines
Don't get people is still shortage doesn't matter if
Salary or where are based or any other reason.
I'm done with my opinion
Your comment doesn't make any sense
I have 3 friends that worked in the regional
1 in Skywest and now is at the ethiad
The second was a transtate and now works
For the Cathay and the last one is still at American
Eagle 90k in Dallas,own a house and love is lifestyle.
Maybe your friend don't love aviation that much.
And just looking the numbers if the airlines
Don't get people is still shortage doesn't matter if
Salary or where are based or any other reason.
I'm done with my opinion
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RA4000,
My post does make sense... Apparently your friends were lucky enough to not be furloughed from a regional, only to go to another regional which got dissolved, and start for a third time at the bottom of a regional in a decade before deciding to pursue an office job with a higher starting salary to be able to feed the family or take care of a sick family member, or lucky enough to not be flying for a small corporate department that gt closed down at the height of the recession with no other flying jobs in sight. Believe me, most of my friends who left flying miss it and talk about going back, but sometimes it is not so easy when you have other obligations in life. Not everybody has the same luck as your friends.
My post does make sense... Apparently your friends were lucky enough to not be furloughed from a regional, only to go to another regional which got dissolved, and start for a third time at the bottom of a regional in a decade before deciding to pursue an office job with a higher starting salary to be able to feed the family or take care of a sick family member, or lucky enough to not be flying for a small corporate department that gt closed down at the height of the recession with no other flying jobs in sight. Believe me, most of my friends who left flying miss it and talk about going back, but sometimes it is not so easy when you have other obligations in life. Not everybody has the same luck as your friends.
Last edited by zondaracer; 24th Sep 2013 at 23:06.
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From 1995 to the present I worked for 8 different regionals and charter outfits. During that 18 year span I had 4 good years where I made more than $30, 000 per year. Half the places I worked went out of business. The rest downsized and furloughed. My timing wasn't the best, but this isn't atypical in the US. I'd say about 1 out of 5 pilots I know made it to a legacy carrier. The majority have been stuck at regional carriers and the lucky one at least hit the bubble right and have ok QOL now making 50-80K per year. But even those guys know they could be downsized/displaced at any time. And guys like me are sick of starting over for 25K per year.
What do we do? Lots of stuff... In my case it makes more sense financially to be a stay at home dad. I stay current though and do side flying jobs from time to time. I certainly don't wait at the phone for a major airline to call though!
Anyway, I assure you that there is no shortage of qualified ATPs in the US. Only a shortage of fools that will bust their hump for 25K per year. The ATP requirements weeds out most of the starry eyed fools. To attract more seasoned pilots who have been around the block more pay and quality of life will have to be offered. Once it is pilots will take jobs again.
What do we do? Lots of stuff... In my case it makes more sense financially to be a stay at home dad. I stay current though and do side flying jobs from time to time. I certainly don't wait at the phone for a major airline to call though!
Anyway, I assure you that there is no shortage of qualified ATPs in the US. Only a shortage of fools that will bust their hump for 25K per year. The ATP requirements weeds out most of the starry eyed fools. To attract more seasoned pilots who have been around the block more pay and quality of life will have to be offered. Once it is pilots will take jobs again.
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Pilot shortage
I am hoping that this pilot shortage actually has some basis, I believe it does, lots of retirements, means openings in the major carriers, which means openings down the line , to include corporate positions. There are many different reasons for wanting to find that job, that particular job that gives you what you need. We all had to pay our dues somehow , be it flight instruction, right seat in a small commuter somewhere in the middle of nowhere, working to find what would work for us. I agree that there are many jobs out there that pay some really low wages, and sometimes, based on each individual's circumstances, there is that guy/gal who is willing to sit in the front, and put up with all the stuff that goes with the job, knowing that they have the chance of moving on to what, they believe to be, that "Job" they will be happy with. And what of the highly experienced crew members, who do to circumstances beyond their control, find them selves looking at those same jobs, for the sake of currency, or location, who know that the job is low wages, and perhaps a semi nightmare, but they also see the opportunity to get in and get out, or even the last chance to do that thing that they know and love, because the clock is ticking all the time. The world is NOT like it use to be, and we all would like to see the wages increase for the professionals we consider ourselves to be, especially considering the bull**** meter has ramped itself up so much. I think it is a wait and see game, if the regionals cannot find the quality of crew they need, and they main theme is low wages, then maybe it will change. Here is hoping for all of that.
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Need Honest Opinion
Hello Folks, my apologize in advance if this has been asked before. I graduated with Bachelors in business and landed my first job in sales recently. I took introductory flight and so in love with flying. My plan is to become airline pilot and after reading this post in this forum it seems to me that there are not that many jobs for low hour pilots once they get ATP etc is that correct?
I was "hooked" on flying 10 minutes into my introductory flying lesson too!
A bit of advice: Don't make any rash financial commitments. Pay for your lessons one at a time, as you go. DoNOT go in the hole with credit or loans until you've at least attained a private certificate. Think of flying as an exploratory or recreational venture until you've had enough exposure to aviation to make a somewhat more informed decision regarding your future plans in aviation.
Do NOT fall prey to the training industry sales dogma related to any present or future "pilot shortage". There are and will continue to be an excess of pilots in the USA with the requisite qualifications and experience to fill domestic airliner seats. But perhaps there is and will continue to be a shortage of qualified pilots willing or able to accept those positions under the salary and schedule conditions currently on offer throughout the lower tiers of the US airline industry.
So by all means go and get your private pilot certificate and revel in every moment of this gratifying and rewarding personal experience. Then decide if you want to take the next step along the path to professional qualification. There's no great hurry and meanwhile you might succeed in business and be able to experience flight as an owner instead of an indentured servant!
Just my opinion mind you, but give it some consideration...
westhawk
A bit of advice: Don't make any rash financial commitments. Pay for your lessons one at a time, as you go. DoNOT go in the hole with credit or loans until you've at least attained a private certificate. Think of flying as an exploratory or recreational venture until you've had enough exposure to aviation to make a somewhat more informed decision regarding your future plans in aviation.
Do NOT fall prey to the training industry sales dogma related to any present or future "pilot shortage". There are and will continue to be an excess of pilots in the USA with the requisite qualifications and experience to fill domestic airliner seats. But perhaps there is and will continue to be a shortage of qualified pilots willing or able to accept those positions under the salary and schedule conditions currently on offer throughout the lower tiers of the US airline industry.
So by all means go and get your private pilot certificate and revel in every moment of this gratifying and rewarding personal experience. Then decide if you want to take the next step along the path to professional qualification. There's no great hurry and meanwhile you might succeed in business and be able to experience flight as an owner instead of an indentured servant!
Just my opinion mind you, but give it some consideration...
westhawk
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Pilot Shortage
Greetings...
I am approaching mandatory retirement, currently on a layover in Hong Kong for a US major airline. Not only are all us geezers hitting age 65 but the new FAR 117 rules and licensing provisions are kicking in. In my 35 years of military and airline flying, the biggest factors were aircraft purchases and pilot retirements. Many factors DO indicate a boom in hiring is imminent - as in the late '70's, mid '80's, and mid 90's.
I just flew my Cessna around the US for the better part of two months - meandering from the Midwest out to LA up to Seattle, then to Key West, back home then Virginia and back. Just like the last long trip four years ago, rarely was a general aviation aircraft in sight. Where are all these pilots - "flying" on their PC software or hang gliding?
The expense of flight training, elimination or reduction of many flight training institutions, and the contraction in the military pilot population is shrinking the pool of potential candidates. Licensed pilots are getting older and rustier.
The military "hires" zero time pilots and trains them. Many of my mentors at the airline were low or zero time pilots when the airlines had to train them. That is an expensive endeavor for budget focused management to agree to. The next decade of candidates searching for jobs and chasing even better opportunities will look like a King Kong movie, with folks crisis crossing paths from every direction.
In the aggregate, I would guess there a fewer candidates under age 30, and, fewer older pilots on another career path of equivalent income, less willing to restart their dream career, time late. After a 30+ year career of furloughs, a strike, a couple of mergers, and other disruptions, it isn't all gravy and I was one of the "lucky" ones. Good luck.
I am approaching mandatory retirement, currently on a layover in Hong Kong for a US major airline. Not only are all us geezers hitting age 65 but the new FAR 117 rules and licensing provisions are kicking in. In my 35 years of military and airline flying, the biggest factors were aircraft purchases and pilot retirements. Many factors DO indicate a boom in hiring is imminent - as in the late '70's, mid '80's, and mid 90's.
I just flew my Cessna around the US for the better part of two months - meandering from the Midwest out to LA up to Seattle, then to Key West, back home then Virginia and back. Just like the last long trip four years ago, rarely was a general aviation aircraft in sight. Where are all these pilots - "flying" on their PC software or hang gliding?
The expense of flight training, elimination or reduction of many flight training institutions, and the contraction in the military pilot population is shrinking the pool of potential candidates. Licensed pilots are getting older and rustier.
The military "hires" zero time pilots and trains them. Many of my mentors at the airline were low or zero time pilots when the airlines had to train them. That is an expensive endeavor for budget focused management to agree to. The next decade of candidates searching for jobs and chasing even better opportunities will look like a King Kong movie, with folks crisis crossing paths from every direction.
In the aggregate, I would guess there a fewer candidates under age 30, and, fewer older pilots on another career path of equivalent income, less willing to restart their dream career, time late. After a 30+ year career of furloughs, a strike, a couple of mergers, and other disruptions, it isn't all gravy and I was one of the "lucky" ones. Good luck.
With the alleged pilot shortage what would be a rough estimate on upgrade times with a regional like Skywest?