First Officer Flight Training
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Queens, NY
Age: 62
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First Officer Flight Training
Is there anyone who can shed some light on Gulfstream Training Academy run by Gulfstream International Airlines? This program claims to offer guaranteed first officer position in Beech 1900D to candidates successfully completing the training.
Pete Smalls.
Pete Smalls.
Better to build flight the necessary time and flight experience some other way, and not to even consider outfits like this. For one, paying someone to "allow" you to work for them is just a ripoff. You'd be selling yourself short. You can do much better for yourself if you're willing to put in the work. Also, "graduates" of this kind of scheme are viewed with scorn throughout the industry. Right or wrong, that's the way it is.
Additionally, at a time when regionals are lowering their minimum qualifications to well less than a thousand hours, (in some cases less than 500) the advantages of buying a job at an outfit like this simply don't add up, or make any make sense in the present market. "Pay to work" outfits simply seek to bilk aviation neophytes out of their money, using slick salesmanship (or con-artistry) to "hook" their victims. Don't waste your time or money trying to take a shortcut like this, you'll always regret it.
Instead, take one of the many other legitimate paths to your career goals. Entry level possibilities include banner towing, airborne patrol work, hauling jumpers, glider tow, traffic watch or aerial photography. Some pilots find flight instruction to be a viable option in building their career credentials, but it's not for everyone since you must be fully dedicated to the welfare of your students in order to perform this function effectively. Once a few hundred hours of flight experience is gained performing one or more of these functions, the next step is within reach.
By the time you've done one of the above for a year or two, building some experience flying twins and/or turbines is in order. The experience of being a PIC, and living with the consequences of your aeronautical judgments and decision-making will serve you well in all your subsequent flying activities. Don't miss the opportunity to be a PIC before becoming a first officer. Armed with your hard-won experiences to date, You can now look to fly night freight, pax charter, or in the present market, even apply directly to the regionals. Choose the path that best aligns you with your ultimate career goals, but don't be in too much of a hurry. Be prepared to prove yourself all over again at each new job and in each new duty assignment. This is the process by which your persona as a professional aviator is developed and honed to a fine edge over time. The quickest path to the right seat of a BE-1900 may not be the best path in the longer term.
I realize that this may be more advice than you were asking for, and that everyone has their own unique perspective. The above is just a small part of my perspective, and I offer it for your consideration. Consider it in the spirit offered, and do what you think is right.
Best wishes in your future endeavors,
Westhawk
Additionally, at a time when regionals are lowering their minimum qualifications to well less than a thousand hours, (in some cases less than 500) the advantages of buying a job at an outfit like this simply don't add up, or make any make sense in the present market. "Pay to work" outfits simply seek to bilk aviation neophytes out of their money, using slick salesmanship (or con-artistry) to "hook" their victims. Don't waste your time or money trying to take a shortcut like this, you'll always regret it.
Instead, take one of the many other legitimate paths to your career goals. Entry level possibilities include banner towing, airborne patrol work, hauling jumpers, glider tow, traffic watch or aerial photography. Some pilots find flight instruction to be a viable option in building their career credentials, but it's not for everyone since you must be fully dedicated to the welfare of your students in order to perform this function effectively. Once a few hundred hours of flight experience is gained performing one or more of these functions, the next step is within reach.
By the time you've done one of the above for a year or two, building some experience flying twins and/or turbines is in order. The experience of being a PIC, and living with the consequences of your aeronautical judgments and decision-making will serve you well in all your subsequent flying activities. Don't miss the opportunity to be a PIC before becoming a first officer. Armed with your hard-won experiences to date, You can now look to fly night freight, pax charter, or in the present market, even apply directly to the regionals. Choose the path that best aligns you with your ultimate career goals, but don't be in too much of a hurry. Be prepared to prove yourself all over again at each new job and in each new duty assignment. This is the process by which your persona as a professional aviator is developed and honed to a fine edge over time. The quickest path to the right seat of a BE-1900 may not be the best path in the longer term.
I realize that this may be more advice than you were asking for, and that everyone has their own unique perspective. The above is just a small part of my perspective, and I offer it for your consideration. Consider it in the spirit offered, and do what you think is right.
Best wishes in your future endeavors,
Westhawk
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 802
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is nothing guaranteed about it. There are many gulfstream grads throughout the industry and they all the say the same thing, not many people actually get "hired" to fly for GIA. Most just spend a lot of money there, get some right seat time in the B1900 and move on to bigger and better things. It certainly is a nice shortcut around more traditional career paths, but it is looked down on by many people in the Industry and I wouldn't recommend it. I have seen GIA grads working for all of the airlines I have worked for over the years, they get hired, but they also get a lot of grief from their peers. So that's a decision you have to make. Generally pilots look down on others trying to shortcut the normal progression, they feel you have to "Pay your dues" like they did. This means a different thing in this day and age though, airlines are currently hiring with as little as 250hrs and a cmel rating right into a Jet. You could have the same kind of fast progression these days by just going to a school like ALL ATPS (their grads are usually hired very quickly). Get some good training, get some multi engine time and move on.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Queens, NY
Age: 62
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First Officer Flight Training
Thank you Westhawk, I sense wisdom in your words. But at 45 years old time ain't on my side, and the traditional routes before the regionals seem so out of reach. I'm looking for the quickest route.
Pete Smalls
Pete Smalls
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Fort Lauderdale, United States / Stockholm, Sweden
Age: 43
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pay For Training Programs are for back stabing punks who don't know how to wait in line.
They are the some people who will work for scumbag places like Virgin America and Skybus. Those people don't care how they drag the pay rates of others down, but boy they get to fly that brand new shiny jet! And chicks dig the uniform right?
I have personaly trashed resumes just becuase a person was/had been a paying pilot at Gulfstream Airlines. Hey, anyone wonder why the FO is paying more to sit in the airplane than a passenger? Not to mention he is stealing anothers job.
They are the some people who will work for scumbag places like Virgin America and Skybus. Those people don't care how they drag the pay rates of others down, but boy they get to fly that brand new shiny jet! And chicks dig the uniform right?
I have personaly trashed resumes just becuase a person was/had been a paying pilot at Gulfstream Airlines. Hey, anyone wonder why the FO is paying more to sit in the airplane than a passenger? Not to mention he is stealing anothers job.
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Miami
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cfi Is A Waste Of Time!!!!!!!!
Lets not forget to mention that ex-gulfstream pilots who PFT are flying today for major carriers in the world. With the high demand there is now wasting time as a loser CFI is not necessary, it will take for ever to build up the ME time. I am starting GFT in August and I know that I will make at least 800K more in salary because of the 4 years in advantage that I will have ahead of the CFI who makes it into the CRJ 4 years after me when I am in a FDX MD11
I personally know plenty of pilots at QTR, FDX, UPS, NKS and AAL that went to GFT and they dont regret it 1 bit. If there is such a demand for PRO PILOTS, you think CFI is the way to go?HELL NO youll never finish not to mention that youll be at the bottom of the barrel in seniority and you have no clue as to what 121 is.
Just look at the europeans................Lufthansa has kids flying A320's with barely any time.......have any crashed?have you heard of any issues?
NO
because they received airline training and didnt spend 12 hours a day doing faggoty chandels and stalls.
Guys avoid CFI at all costs.......................
Just my 2 cents.......
I personally know plenty of pilots at QTR, FDX, UPS, NKS and AAL that went to GFT and they dont regret it 1 bit. If there is such a demand for PRO PILOTS, you think CFI is the way to go?HELL NO youll never finish not to mention that youll be at the bottom of the barrel in seniority and you have no clue as to what 121 is.
Just look at the europeans................Lufthansa has kids flying A320's with barely any time.......have any crashed?have you heard of any issues?
NO
because they received airline training and didnt spend 12 hours a day doing faggoty chandels and stalls.
Guys avoid CFI at all costs.......................
Just my 2 cents.......
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Japan / Thailand
Posts: 196
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The fact that you say you "know" you will do anything in this industry shows that you have a lot to learn. When I was an FO, I found the captains that had never been CFIs were the most difficult to fly with generally. They tended to micromanage much more than those who instructed. I only instructed for about 500 hours but I found that it made me a better and more patient captain after I upgraded.
There are young 20 something cadets in training here with ANA but I guarentee you that Gulfstream will not give you anywhere near the quality of instruction that any major airline cadet program gives. And you do realize that other 1900 operators actually employ and pay people money to fly in the right seat right?
There is much more to 121 flying that just seniority. Right now with your attitude, it appears that you are going to be "that guy" that everyone dreads flying with. Hopefully that will change when you get some experience. Good luck getting to FDX....There are 1000's of others that have been trying for a looooooooooooong time. It is hardly guarenteed.
There are young 20 something cadets in training here with ANA but I guarentee you that Gulfstream will not give you anywhere near the quality of instruction that any major airline cadet program gives. And you do realize that other 1900 operators actually employ and pay people money to fly in the right seat right?
There is much more to 121 flying that just seniority. Right now with your attitude, it appears that you are going to be "that guy" that everyone dreads flying with. Hopefully that will change when you get some experience. Good luck getting to FDX....There are 1000's of others that have been trying for a looooooooooooong time. It is hardly guarenteed.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: sandpit
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Try Alpine Air (www.alpine-air.com), single pilot operation, so you don't steal another FO's job.
It's a night cargo operation, Beech99 and Beech 1900. Nice bunch of people..
It's a night cargo operation, Beech99 and Beech 1900. Nice bunch of people..
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Miami
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you say so................
CRJ I guess thats youre attitude. My attitude is getting the job that I went to school for and not become a teacher.
Everyone has a different point of view........................
Also like you say "know" I know nothing is known but what is known is that
yea 1000's have tried FedEx and yes its hard....but the possibility is out there
I just see CFI as time being lost when there are other possibilities.
I personally have met CFI's who have 1000 hours of slave work and still dont know what an EFIS looks like............we will see who makes a better airline pilot, the 1000 hour CFI that knows Part 91 in and out or the guy who "back stabs"(thats what pprune people call PFT pro guys)and gets all the airline related exp. first.
But anyhow CRJ its great to see youre in Japan with ANA and you earned youre way there.
Right now the demand for pilots is too great to become a CFI like I said. I want an airline job before anything else happens.
Everyone has a different point of view........................
Also like you say "know" I know nothing is known but what is known is that
yea 1000's have tried FedEx and yes its hard....but the possibility is out there
I just see CFI as time being lost when there are other possibilities.
I personally have met CFI's who have 1000 hours of slave work and still dont know what an EFIS looks like............we will see who makes a better airline pilot, the 1000 hour CFI that knows Part 91 in and out or the guy who "back stabs"(thats what pprune people call PFT pro guys)and gets all the airline related exp. first.
But anyhow CRJ its great to see youre in Japan with ANA and you earned youre way there.
Right now the demand for pilots is too great to become a CFI like I said. I want an airline job before anything else happens.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Japan / Thailand
Posts: 196
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I will not be critical of your choice, but I am critical of your view on CFIs and the value that it can bring to make you a better and more professional pilot. While it is not a wonderful job by any means, you do learn more there that will help you in the 121 world than just paying to sit in the right seat. 121 operations are not hard at all. When in your flying experience have you had to make decisions? Should the first place to make real decisions be your first time in a 121 cockpit? While you are assisting in decision making as an FO you never have the final call. You do get some of that experience instructing.
Why even bother with gulfstream in the first place? How much money would it cost to get your commercial multi engine rating? My old company is hiring guys with 300 hour in the right seat of an RJ and you will get paid as an FO. There are better ways to go about getting into professional aviation that the route you are looking at.
It probably will not cost you a job, but there are a lot of ill feelings toward guys who pay to sit in the right seat of a 1900. That is a job that someone should be paid to do. Not only are you doing it for free, but you are paying someone to do it. There is something very wrong with that. Would you pay to sit in the right seat of an RJ? What about a 737?
There is much more to being a professional than time and flying. You will be at a regional for a few years and get to experience the crappy contracts and lifestyles that are a result of people just trying to get their time to make it to that next step faster. But you need to always remember that you might never make that next step.
Why even bother with gulfstream in the first place? How much money would it cost to get your commercial multi engine rating? My old company is hiring guys with 300 hour in the right seat of an RJ and you will get paid as an FO. There are better ways to go about getting into professional aviation that the route you are looking at.
It probably will not cost you a job, but there are a lot of ill feelings toward guys who pay to sit in the right seat of a 1900. That is a job that someone should be paid to do. Not only are you doing it for free, but you are paying someone to do it. There is something very wrong with that. Would you pay to sit in the right seat of an RJ? What about a 737?
There is much more to being a professional than time and flying. You will be at a regional for a few years and get to experience the crappy contracts and lifestyles that are a result of people just trying to get their time to make it to that next step faster. But you need to always remember that you might never make that next step.
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 802
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pete,
This last exchange should give you an insight into the world of gulfstream and similar programs.
Like I said earlier, it is a shortcut and would probably work out for you, just be prepared to deal with the kind of stigma that goes along with paying for a job at an airline. You've already seen some of the responses on this board. I was in ground school when I worked for ExpressJet and they were doing the introductions. There were two pilots in class from Gulfstream, and when they introduced themselves and said where they were from the instructor goes "oh, so you're one of those huh!" and moved on to the next guy. I guarantee you those two got absolutely no extra help from the other members of the class or from the teachers, but they did make it through training, and actually did make friends along the way.
In fact my sim partner the first time I trained on the CRJ was a gulfstream guy, who was in his forties and making a career change. The program worked out really well for him, he got his ratings quickly and moved onto a regional airline easily because of the multi engine 121 training he already had he did quite well in the sim.
This last exchange should give you an insight into the world of gulfstream and similar programs.
Like I said earlier, it is a shortcut and would probably work out for you, just be prepared to deal with the kind of stigma that goes along with paying for a job at an airline. You've already seen some of the responses on this board. I was in ground school when I worked for ExpressJet and they were doing the introductions. There were two pilots in class from Gulfstream, and when they introduced themselves and said where they were from the instructor goes "oh, so you're one of those huh!" and moved on to the next guy. I guarantee you those two got absolutely no extra help from the other members of the class or from the teachers, but they did make it through training, and actually did make friends along the way.
In fact my sim partner the first time I trained on the CRJ was a gulfstream guy, who was in his forties and making a career change. The program worked out really well for him, he got his ratings quickly and moved onto a regional airline easily because of the multi engine 121 training he already had he did quite well in the sim.
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Miami
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
.......
Well I guess we all have different points of view. I totally agree with CFI being alot of help but like we all know the demand for airline pilots is high and there is no time to waste as a CFI while others take youre number and spot.
I used to be pro-cfi until this demand for pilots rose and I said (edited for language) it, gotta get there now before some other dude does.
just my 2 cents
dont bash me for being pro PFT because I do agree CFI is good......just not in florida
I used to be pro-cfi until this demand for pilots rose and I said (edited for language) it, gotta get there now before some other dude does.
just my 2 cents
dont bash me for being pro PFT because I do agree CFI is good......just not in florida
