Jet University
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Fort Lauderdale, United States / Stockholm, Sweden
Age: 43
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Sure.
They are another PFT or Pay For Training scumbag operation like Gulfstream Academy. Taking the people who can fork out tens of thousands of dollars and places them ahead of hard working time builders who should be getting the break. Not to mention paying 5 times what PIC training costs for SIC.
Why would anyone pay for that regional fo garbage anyway, in todays market any pilot with a wet COM cert. and a pulse can get a fist full of job offers just by e-mailing resumes.
Gulfstream Academy has the FO paying more for his seat than any passenger!
It may look like a fast way to get into a shiny new jet, but trust me getting involved with PFT operations will bite you back some day. I personaly have worked on hiring boards at 135 jet operators and tossed out resumes from scumbag PFT operators that otherwise would have gotten an interview.
Word to the wise.
They are another PFT or Pay For Training scumbag operation like Gulfstream Academy. Taking the people who can fork out tens of thousands of dollars and places them ahead of hard working time builders who should be getting the break. Not to mention paying 5 times what PIC training costs for SIC.
Why would anyone pay for that regional fo garbage anyway, in todays market any pilot with a wet COM cert. and a pulse can get a fist full of job offers just by e-mailing resumes.
Gulfstream Academy has the FO paying more for his seat than any passenger!
It may look like a fast way to get into a shiny new jet, but trust me getting involved with PFT operations will bite you back some day. I personaly have worked on hiring boards at 135 jet operators and tossed out resumes from scumbag PFT operators that otherwise would have gotten an interview.
Word to the wise.
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Jet University
Thanks for the advice GulfstreamPilot. You seem to know what you're talking about. Then allow me to ask you this:I'm 46, and plan to begin training in January '08 after a lifetime of dreaming about being a professional pilot. Would you advise going the route of the academies(although quite expensive)and flight instructing for them to build hours? Or would you advise getting the commercial license and getting a job flying anything, anywhere for time building. And having the experience you say of being on the other side of the table, which candidate,in your opinion, would a hiring committee look more favorably upon - one with flight instructing hours, or one with part 121, PIC time?
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Pete have you looked at ALL ATPS? I really think you should check them out. http://www.atpflightschool.com/
I believe they have a school in Trenton NJ. I have friends who went there, and also I used to work as a CRJ instructor for a regional airline, and we hired a lot of graduates of the ATP program. The airline loved hiring those guys and they always did very well in CRJ training because of the course at ATPs.
And in case you are wondering, no i have nothing to gain from pointing you towards them, just a fellow airline pilot trying to help you out.
I believe they have a school in Trenton NJ. I have friends who went there, and also I used to work as a CRJ instructor for a regional airline, and we hired a lot of graduates of the ATP program. The airline loved hiring those guys and they always did very well in CRJ training because of the course at ATPs.
And in case you are wondering, no i have nothing to gain from pointing you towards them, just a fellow airline pilot trying to help you out.
Pete Smalls:
You should also be aware of another aspect.
A pilot with only about 300 total hours who makes it through a CRJ First Officer program is one excellent student. However, they must adapt to demanding city pairs during all kinds of weather, and help the Captain cope with limited fuel versus changing weather limitations etc. And malfunctions in the real world.
However, a very serious hang-up for some airlines and some students is the fact that many such students have very limited PIC hours-often too few for the ATP requirements.
There might be a new "program" which allows the student to cut a corner on the number of minimum PIC hours required for the ATP, in order to avoid staying forever in the CRJ's FO seat. I have no idea if it will be introduced or allowed. Legally, to change an FAR and allow as a substitute a ratio of SIC to PIC hours, would be a first in the US.
Reportedly a Chief Pilot (H.) quit over this concept being seriously discussed at a US regional airline.
Hang in there and good luck. As you earn your ratings, if a company's ops specs somehow allow (despite weight or liability restrictions) you to fly in the middle of the night with somebody, in whichever type of aircraft-whether recip, Caravan, ATR-42-(make sure that the return trip leg can bring you back to where your car is)- do it, so that you can observe! Even with some guy in his private airplane, do it!
You should also be aware of another aspect.
A pilot with only about 300 total hours who makes it through a CRJ First Officer program is one excellent student. However, they must adapt to demanding city pairs during all kinds of weather, and help the Captain cope with limited fuel versus changing weather limitations etc. And malfunctions in the real world.
However, a very serious hang-up for some airlines and some students is the fact that many such students have very limited PIC hours-often too few for the ATP requirements.
There might be a new "program" which allows the student to cut a corner on the number of minimum PIC hours required for the ATP, in order to avoid staying forever in the CRJ's FO seat. I have no idea if it will be introduced or allowed. Legally, to change an FAR and allow as a substitute a ratio of SIC to PIC hours, would be a first in the US.
Reportedly a Chief Pilot (H.) quit over this concept being seriously discussed at a US regional airline.
Hang in there and good luck. As you earn your ratings, if a company's ops specs somehow allow (despite weight or liability restrictions) you to fly in the middle of the night with somebody, in whichever type of aircraft-whether recip, Caravan, ATR-42-(make sure that the return trip leg can bring you back to where your car is)- do it, so that you can observe! Even with some guy in his private airplane, do it!
SkyGod
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Then allow me to ask you this:I'm 46, and plan to begin training in January '08 after a lifetime of dreaming about being a professional pilot
You may be the execption, but other pilots I have seen starting their training in their 40s have been pretty lousy. If flying was your passion you would have started in your 20s.
Again, you may be the exeption and you may shine, but learning to fly is like learning a new language: Better start early so it gets in your blood.
If not, you will have an uphill battle.
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Pete,
I wouldn’t put too much stock in either of the two above posts. The notion that it is too late in life for you to become a professional pilot is absolutely absurd! Do not get any of that nonsense in your head. If you got on the ball and lived in aviation tunnel vision you could get 15+ years of airlines or more if you opt private.
That being said… you aren’t twenty years old so we should get ya moving! If you’ve done you’re homework, you should have already researched what you can expect to spend both financially and time wise to get minimally qualified. Also you should know initial pay rates, and should try to familiarize yourself with the VERY direct relationship to cyclical need for pilots and the extreme hardship of finding a job should the need for pilots be relatively little. The good news is that the need for pilots now and for the foreseeable future (5 years+?) looks unprecedently positive.
So the job should be there when you get done training, which is a great thing to think about ahead of time. Next, you better have or be able to borrow a pile of money. I’ve been out of the training loop for better than six or more years so I’m not too sure what its going to take today. I’m guessing its going to take you all of 40-50,000 of pure training costs. Like I said, I could be wrong. Be careful when getting quotes from flight schools, they almost always give a lighter number than it really takes. Personally I went to FlightSafety Academy and the numbers were just about spot on. However keep in mind that’s training costs and not cost of living included. Do yourself a favor and find a way to do it all in one foul swoop, don’t try to work while you train, it will inevitably cost more money and certainly take longer. So that’s the money side of the deal. Time line wise, I’d say if you have zero experience now, once you start you could effectively be a multi engine, instrument rated commercial pilot in 10 months to one year. It may be possible to do it in the 4 month or similar programs but trust me; you are only short changing yourself. After the entire goal is to learn the art of flying an airplane, to become an aviator and that takes some time. Don’t forget to enjoy yourself while your going through, I look back and find that training in a great training environment was a very special time in my life and I look back with the fondest of memories and experiences.
Ok we’ve covered money, and time. Next, what does that money and time get you in the real world. Well, that is hard to say. Years ago those certificates and ratings wouldn’t get you a discount on a sandwich. They would however get you a good hardy laugh from any jet operator. Today is a much different story. By the time you get out of school if you went to an academy style school you’ll have between 200-250 hours, if you went to a general airport rental/school you’ll have at least 250 hours. In today’s market a pilot with 250-400 hours are either getting a commuter jobs or are damn near it. I think the highest hour requirement by ‘the best’ regional airline has got to be in the 800 hour range. Do the math, honestly if a guy’s got the mental/financial/drive wherewithal to achieve the certifications a paying airline job is really just around the corner. I’m jealous, let’s just say it wasn’t that way when I was looking at the regional level. When I was looking, a guy had to have 3000 hours just for an interview at the regional level! Like I said, cyclical.
Ok, that’s money/time/job. Questions?
On a side note, depending on your financial situation you may want to consider buying your own airplane. You could get into your own airplane for ball park of 80-100,000. for something decent that you’d actually want to fly in. The upside is that you’d get to really know the airplane, and if you were able to buy it right you could sell it for the same or profit after you’ve done your training and saved a TON of cash. Only paying for the fuel, instructors time, minor upkeep and insurance, a good friend did it and actually after all expenses was able to turn a 2000 profit after costs for his own licenses. That would be the single engine and instrument, along with time building. You’d still need to rent out that pricy multi engine, some things just suck.
Hope this has been a help, I wanted to try and give you some solid advice instead of you going away thinking this was out of the question for any age related reasons. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions, you will.
B
I wouldn’t put too much stock in either of the two above posts. The notion that it is too late in life for you to become a professional pilot is absolutely absurd! Do not get any of that nonsense in your head. If you got on the ball and lived in aviation tunnel vision you could get 15+ years of airlines or more if you opt private.
That being said… you aren’t twenty years old so we should get ya moving! If you’ve done you’re homework, you should have already researched what you can expect to spend both financially and time wise to get minimally qualified. Also you should know initial pay rates, and should try to familiarize yourself with the VERY direct relationship to cyclical need for pilots and the extreme hardship of finding a job should the need for pilots be relatively little. The good news is that the need for pilots now and for the foreseeable future (5 years+?) looks unprecedently positive.
So the job should be there when you get done training, which is a great thing to think about ahead of time. Next, you better have or be able to borrow a pile of money. I’ve been out of the training loop for better than six or more years so I’m not too sure what its going to take today. I’m guessing its going to take you all of 40-50,000 of pure training costs. Like I said, I could be wrong. Be careful when getting quotes from flight schools, they almost always give a lighter number than it really takes. Personally I went to FlightSafety Academy and the numbers were just about spot on. However keep in mind that’s training costs and not cost of living included. Do yourself a favor and find a way to do it all in one foul swoop, don’t try to work while you train, it will inevitably cost more money and certainly take longer. So that’s the money side of the deal. Time line wise, I’d say if you have zero experience now, once you start you could effectively be a multi engine, instrument rated commercial pilot in 10 months to one year. It may be possible to do it in the 4 month or similar programs but trust me; you are only short changing yourself. After the entire goal is to learn the art of flying an airplane, to become an aviator and that takes some time. Don’t forget to enjoy yourself while your going through, I look back and find that training in a great training environment was a very special time in my life and I look back with the fondest of memories and experiences.
Ok we’ve covered money, and time. Next, what does that money and time get you in the real world. Well, that is hard to say. Years ago those certificates and ratings wouldn’t get you a discount on a sandwich. They would however get you a good hardy laugh from any jet operator. Today is a much different story. By the time you get out of school if you went to an academy style school you’ll have between 200-250 hours, if you went to a general airport rental/school you’ll have at least 250 hours. In today’s market a pilot with 250-400 hours are either getting a commuter jobs or are damn near it. I think the highest hour requirement by ‘the best’ regional airline has got to be in the 800 hour range. Do the math, honestly if a guy’s got the mental/financial/drive wherewithal to achieve the certifications a paying airline job is really just around the corner. I’m jealous, let’s just say it wasn’t that way when I was looking at the regional level. When I was looking, a guy had to have 3000 hours just for an interview at the regional level! Like I said, cyclical.
Ok, that’s money/time/job. Questions?
On a side note, depending on your financial situation you may want to consider buying your own airplane. You could get into your own airplane for ball park of 80-100,000. for something decent that you’d actually want to fly in. The upside is that you’d get to really know the airplane, and if you were able to buy it right you could sell it for the same or profit after you’ve done your training and saved a TON of cash. Only paying for the fuel, instructors time, minor upkeep and insurance, a good friend did it and actually after all expenses was able to turn a 2000 profit after costs for his own licenses. That would be the single engine and instrument, along with time building. You’d still need to rent out that pricy multi engine, some things just suck.
Hope this has been a help, I wanted to try and give you some solid advice instead of you going away thinking this was out of the question for any age related reasons. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions, you will.
B
Join Date: Jun 2005
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............
Excuse my language but.....(edited for language) Jet University.......this place is a scam....I personally know the guys you pay and dont get a single hour of flight time just some crappy FTD and learn profiles and CRJ just to get into pinnacle and have to do this all over again.
these guys are snakes stay away!
these guys are snakes stay away!
