SAS Bankrupt? Say it ain't so......
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SAS Bankrupt? Say it ain't so......
Just heard the rumour, is it true? Can anyone confirm?
Iconic symbols going make a sad day worse, or are they just the same old rumours?
Iconic symbols going make a sad day worse, or are they just the same old rumours?
Last edited by Dances With Dingoes; 30th Oct 2012 at 22:49.
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Capt Playstation, you´ve obviously been drinking a bit too much Kjos koolaid lately...
Being one of the guys that´s helping Kjos destroy the Scandinavian pilot market, I´d be careful throwing such comments around if I were you....
Being one of the guys that´s helping Kjos destroy the Scandinavian pilot market, I´d be careful throwing such comments around if I were you....
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@TVplaying pilot: Military huge contracts to DY, government still rejects EU decision that banning of Eurobonus is illegal, government say no to any capital increase in SAS....
YES - they are REALLY helping SAS...!
Are you drunk or are you actually Kjos.....???
YES - they are REALLY helping SAS...!
Are you drunk or are you actually Kjos.....???
Last edited by SK-pilot; 31st Oct 2012 at 17:12.
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Neither. . . but what will the books say when the pension deficit has to be shown in the audit ? I heard a figure a way way lot less than zero.
Or perhaps I am merely misinformed
but certainly not brainwashed. . don't worry about that
Or perhaps I am merely misinformed
but certainly not brainwashed. . don't worry about that
Last edited by captplaystation; 31st Oct 2012 at 19:27.
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SAS will not have much sympathy from the younger generation of pilots, as they have not contributed to much recruitment the last 20 years!
Furthermore I can imagine SAS for some have become an increasingly frustrating company to work for over the years, as there has been little or no chance for any upgrades in the same period of time!
These policies have steadily help ensure, that once used to be the holy grail for Scandinavian aviators became a no go area!
So any SK pilots bashing NAS/Kjos pilots for their choices, should see that SAS themselves with their low to non existent pilot demand, have helped companies like NAS to be able to dictate worse and worse terms for their pilots, as SAS is no longer an option as a career progression!
SAS will sooner or later either fold, or be sold, and if the latter there will be many jobs lost from the company!
The truth is that many of those SAS pilots, when the company folds or gets sold, will struggle to find any employment within Scandinavia, as NAS is the only option available, but I would not be to sure if those pilots would be easily recruited into NAS!
SAS lost their way long time ago, sadly!
Furthermore I can imagine SAS for some have become an increasingly frustrating company to work for over the years, as there has been little or no chance for any upgrades in the same period of time!
These policies have steadily help ensure, that once used to be the holy grail for Scandinavian aviators became a no go area!
So any SK pilots bashing NAS/Kjos pilots for their choices, should see that SAS themselves with their low to non existent pilot demand, have helped companies like NAS to be able to dictate worse and worse terms for their pilots, as SAS is no longer an option as a career progression!
SAS will sooner or later either fold, or be sold, and if the latter there will be many jobs lost from the company!
The truth is that many of those SAS pilots, when the company folds or gets sold, will struggle to find any employment within Scandinavia, as NAS is the only option available, but I would not be to sure if those pilots would be easily recruited into NAS!
SAS lost their way long time ago, sadly!
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truckflyer;
I am or should be considered what you call "younger generation" of pilots, and let me make it clear - I have plenty of sympathy for the SAS flight personnel....
I have not seen any bashing of Bjørn Kjos in this thread - and im not sure this is the correct thread for it!
Keep up the nonsense comments on Prune, you are amusing
I am or should be considered what you call "younger generation" of pilots, and let me make it clear - I have plenty of sympathy for the SAS flight personnel....
I have not seen any bashing of Bjørn Kjos in this thread - and im not sure this is the correct thread for it!
Keep up the nonsense comments on Prune, you are amusing
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Of course I also have sympathy for the SAS workers! Nobody wants to see people loose their jobs! Unfortunately SAS have failed to evolve with the times! However bigger companies than SAS have failed, poor management is probably the main blame!
Lack of vision, and planning for the future! SAS is not the only airline with this problem!
I have lived abroad for over 20 years, never once have I booked a flight with SAS! And this does not mean that I only travel Lo Co! But if they can't compete with the likes of BA, what chance do they than have?
Also the public perception of pilots T'C's today, is not helped by SAS image, as of course SAS pilots have pay deals most could only dream of, the public image of a pilot complaining over his "contract" today, is that pilots are overpaid and based on false assumptions that pilots are paid like SAS pilots are!
You can see any thread in Norwegian papers online, the discussions are always heavily against the pilots, they get very little sympathy by the general public, public opinion is mostly based on wrong assumptions!
Lack of vision, and planning for the future! SAS is not the only airline with this problem!
I have lived abroad for over 20 years, never once have I booked a flight with SAS! And this does not mean that I only travel Lo Co! But if they can't compete with the likes of BA, what chance do they than have?
Also the public perception of pilots T'C's today, is not helped by SAS image, as of course SAS pilots have pay deals most could only dream of, the public image of a pilot complaining over his "contract" today, is that pilots are overpaid and based on false assumptions that pilots are paid like SAS pilots are!
You can see any thread in Norwegian papers online, the discussions are always heavily against the pilots, they get very little sympathy by the general public, public opinion is mostly based on wrong assumptions!
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C.PS; Did I say ANYTHING about that there is no pension fund problem in SAS...??? Of course there is - everyone that have opened a scandinavian newspaper the last few days knows that!
I replied to your comments about governments "helping" SAS, and your answer is pension funds.... I give up - have a nice weekend!
I replied to your comments about governments "helping" SAS, and your answer is pension funds.... I give up - have a nice weekend!
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I didn't accuse the Govts of helping SAS, although all my Scandinavian colleagues are always telling me how they resent that their taxes have been spent propping up SAS for decades.
When you have spent all of the family "Silver" (SAS Flight Academy/ Radisson Hotels etc) & there is a very large bill hanging in the air (pension fund) & when you can no longer borrow funds to replace gas guzzling dinosaurs (MD's) let alone retro-fit winglets to your Boeings, that sounds awfully like "bankrupt" by any normal fiscal definition of the word. No capital/lots of debt/no collatoral to borrow more.
As a "non Nordic" outsider, I rely heavily on what my Scandinavian colleagues have led me to believe, and that appears to be that the only thing preventing SAS being declared bankrupt is the unpalatable social/political consequences resulting from a "reality check" on the part of the 3 Govts, and their unwillingness to undertake this "check".
Whilst this continues you stagger along @ 1.3Vs, the day it all becomes "too much" the stick pusher will activate.
I don't gloat over this fact, far from it, as we are all in varying depths of cr@p in this industry, but I believe we should not deny that it is indeed a (harsh) fact. Don't shoot the messenger.
When you have spent all of the family "Silver" (SAS Flight Academy/ Radisson Hotels etc) & there is a very large bill hanging in the air (pension fund) & when you can no longer borrow funds to replace gas guzzling dinosaurs (MD's) let alone retro-fit winglets to your Boeings, that sounds awfully like "bankrupt" by any normal fiscal definition of the word. No capital/lots of debt/no collatoral to borrow more.
As a "non Nordic" outsider, I rely heavily on what my Scandinavian colleagues have led me to believe, and that appears to be that the only thing preventing SAS being declared bankrupt is the unpalatable social/political consequences resulting from a "reality check" on the part of the 3 Govts, and their unwillingness to undertake this "check".
Whilst this continues you stagger along @ 1.3Vs, the day it all becomes "too much" the stick pusher will activate.
I don't gloat over this fact, far from it, as we are all in varying depths of cr@p in this industry, but I believe we should not deny that it is indeed a (harsh) fact. Don't shoot the messenger.
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A matter of time
I dont think SAS will be going on for long with its current state.
The company will have problems convincing unions about its cost saving. There are many different union departments inside SAS which each can go on strike to defend their members against any cost cutting measures.
Question in the end is likely will they go outright bankrupt or being bought by another company. In any case it will mean total restructure of the company and loss of jobs and employment contracts which very likely would have to be negotiated from scratch as no other company would accept the current conditions....SAS is simply to expensive.
The company will have problems convincing unions about its cost saving. There are many different union departments inside SAS which each can go on strike to defend their members against any cost cutting measures.
Question in the end is likely will they go outright bankrupt or being bought by another company. In any case it will mean total restructure of the company and loss of jobs and employment contracts which very likely would have to be negotiated from scratch as no other company would accept the current conditions....SAS is simply to expensive.
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With all due respect; I think you might benefit from either reading some financial statements, or by losing the chip on your shoulder.
Last edited by Goldenbawls; 3rd Nov 2012 at 00:17.
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Time will tell. . . but, much better to be with the "enlightened" SAS aircrew that now (recently) smile at NAS guys, rather than the "old school" who look at them as if they stood on a dog turd on the way to work methinks (well, unless the pension is that GOOD, and guaranteed 
)
Never know who you might meet next while in an interview board Eh ?
) Never know who you might meet next while in an interview board Eh ?
Last edited by captplaystation; 3rd Nov 2012 at 02:05.
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You know there is another nail in the coffin for this profession when employees at airlines with no pension plan chide those that do have pensions. In this race to the bottom there seems to be an ever increasing number of colleagues who are proud to be in the lead.
He who dies with the worst contract wins.
He who dies with the worst contract wins.
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I've always considered my colleagues to be other fellow pilots regardless of the company. Simply can't understand pilots looking down on other pilots because of a better pay deal, contract etc... 
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"Simply can't understand pilots looking down on other pilots because of a better pay deal, contract etc..."
Yes well, ironically SAS pilots have historically been quick to look down their noses at all other scandinavian pilots. They have been told, and duly bought, the notion that they are a divine gift to the industry and ever since pranced around on pink fluffy clouds now and then peering down through the wisps to regard their Morlock brethren. You'd have been lucky to get a simple "hi" passing them in the terminal and that, incredibly, is still quite common. My solution is to provide them with the broadest smile I can manage, especially the bitter FO-for-life 50-year olds who seem to stare straight ahead in a very constipated fashion when they notice four stripes on my young person.
This from a company that has used their absolute monopoly and influence for decades to push out upstarts and try-hard competitors all over scandinavia. As soon as anyone started nibbling at their business they would roll over them mercilessly undercutting prices and waiting for bankruptcy or buying them outright. It's a well fed, self-rightous outfit with business models circa 1975 impregnating the office walls still pretending that the rest of the world is to blame for their downfall.
Riddle me this, finally. What has the SAS pilots and the SAS company ever done for fellow colleagues when times were tough? Sweet F all.
Yes well, ironically SAS pilots have historically been quick to look down their noses at all other scandinavian pilots. They have been told, and duly bought, the notion that they are a divine gift to the industry and ever since pranced around on pink fluffy clouds now and then peering down through the wisps to regard their Morlock brethren. You'd have been lucky to get a simple "hi" passing them in the terminal and that, incredibly, is still quite common. My solution is to provide them with the broadest smile I can manage, especially the bitter FO-for-life 50-year olds who seem to stare straight ahead in a very constipated fashion when they notice four stripes on my young person.
This from a company that has used their absolute monopoly and influence for decades to push out upstarts and try-hard competitors all over scandinavia. As soon as anyone started nibbling at their business they would roll over them mercilessly undercutting prices and waiting for bankruptcy or buying them outright. It's a well fed, self-rightous outfit with business models circa 1975 impregnating the office walls still pretending that the rest of the world is to blame for their downfall.
Riddle me this, finally. What has the SAS pilots and the SAS company ever done for fellow colleagues when times were tough? Sweet F all.
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Sk: that's not how I read PS. It's old vs. new school.
And I must admit that some of the Sk guys think they can walk on water.
As an ex girlfriend once asked me, 20 or so years ago, when I was full of myself.
Do you know the difference between a pilot and God? Eh no.....
God doesn't think he can fly...
And I must admit that some of the Sk guys think they can walk on water.
As an ex girlfriend once asked me, 20 or so years ago, when I was full of myself.
Do you know the difference between a pilot and God? Eh no.....
God doesn't think he can fly...