Norwegain
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Moss
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Naahh!!
Your logic makes no sense! Soon NAS will have the pilots it need for the aircraft ordered. The 60+ will leave, and the avg age will come down. I did not say that I expect new NAS CP's to go to SAS. But new FP's. Eventually the upgradetime at NAS will increase to normal, and the picture for new FP's will be different. And how do you estimate upgradetime to 15, when avg pilot age now is 50. In 10, over half of the pilot group is retired.
By the way, have you all seen our new payscales!! And we have a roster bidding system at SAS! Several options on roster, incl fixed. Several types of vacation, too. Very lucrative sell of days off - you make Gesillions!
(Unforunately in my opinion.)
NAS is a very good employer, I'm sure, but as in Braathens SAFE, there will be a leak on the bottom, going to SAS.
Empati (not recruiting!)
Your logic makes no sense! Soon NAS will have the pilots it need for the aircraft ordered. The 60+ will leave, and the avg age will come down. I did not say that I expect new NAS CP's to go to SAS. But new FP's. Eventually the upgradetime at NAS will increase to normal, and the picture for new FP's will be different. And how do you estimate upgradetime to 15, when avg pilot age now is 50. In 10, over half of the pilot group is retired.By the way, have you all seen our new payscales!! And we have a roster bidding system at SAS! Several options on roster, incl fixed. Several types of vacation, too. Very lucrative sell of days off - you make Gesillions!
(Unforunately in my opinion.)NAS is a very good employer, I'm sure, but as in Braathens SAFE, there will be a leak on the bottom, going to SAS.
Empati (not recruiting!)
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Scandinavia
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First - is it the rest of the world who is wrong calling pilots CPTs and FOs and SAS doing it the correct way by calling them CPs anf FPs? Or vice versa.. 
What is FP short for?
No. I havenīt seen SAS new payscales because SAS pilots are generally very keen on not spilling the beans. But please go ahead and either post them here, with every yearly increment up to end salary, or update www.ppjn.com. NAS salaries have been discussed here before but we are in the process of negotiating at the moment, we might get a big rise as well...
With regards to 15+ years for upgrade at SAS I was refering to what is the norm right now. Is it not true that FOs (FPs) at SAS have served 14-16 years and still are far away from upgrading? Who knows what the future will bring? If I knew I would have made a furtune from lotto and gambling...
Of course it will most likely change at NAS from having DEC to become 5-8 years in the future, but that is most likely still some years away. We do have a lot of 58-64 years old pilots retiring within the next years.
I also find this discussion a bit funny. I am very pro SAS pilots being paid properly, in fact I hope you get an even better raise next year. Because if SAS is getting payrises, we are bound to get them at NAS as well. Demand and supply.
What is FP short for?No. I havenīt seen SAS new payscales because SAS pilots are generally very keen on not spilling the beans. But please go ahead and either post them here, with every yearly increment up to end salary, or update www.ppjn.com. NAS salaries have been discussed here before but we are in the process of negotiating at the moment, we might get a big rise as well...
With regards to 15+ years for upgrade at SAS I was refering to what is the norm right now. Is it not true that FOs (FPs) at SAS have served 14-16 years and still are far away from upgrading? Who knows what the future will bring? If I knew I would have made a furtune from lotto and gambling...
Of course it will most likely change at NAS from having DEC to become 5-8 years in the future, but that is most likely still some years away. We do have a lot of 58-64 years old pilots retiring within the next years.
I also find this discussion a bit funny. I am very pro SAS pilots being paid properly, in fact I hope you get an even better raise next year. Because if SAS is getting payrises, we are bound to get them at NAS as well. Demand and supply.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Scandinavia
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Donīt know where you are looking at, but from the seniority list that I have we have 23 pilots who are aged 58-64. Maybe not as many as I suspected but considering that 20 of them are CPTs that is 20 upgrades only replacing them and not considering the expansion which will require a lot more upgrading. We also have a lot of pilots born in the 1950ies.
Not everyone will stay onboard until reaching 65... but ofcourse as I said before I canīt read the future!
Not everyone will stay onboard until reaching 65... but ofcourse as I said before I canīt read the future!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Moss
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FC - captain/commander
FP - flight officer
I have been beaten with a stick until I gave up CPT and FO, and admitting to SAS inventing the wheel! SORRY!
Payraise! Another point to my list of increased cost for NAS.
Empati
FP - flight officer
I have been beaten with a stick until I gave up CPT and FO, and admitting to SAS inventing the wheel! SORRY!
Payraise! Another point to my list of increased cost for NAS.
Empati
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: @ some hotel far away from everything
Posts: 734
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is a very funny discussion
. You simply cannot compare the two airlines since they stand on totally different hills regarding T&Cs. Mr. Empati says something about total package and benefits being better than NAS`. So true. All the benefits that come along with the employment are, as far as I understand, not existing at NAS. On the other hand, Mr Fatman argues that NAS pays better from year 1 and time to upgrade is significantly shorter than at SAS. This is also true. So it`s really all up to what you prefer.
But Fatman, I sincerely hope you guys get a nice raise, as it keeps Norway`s level on the higher end. It benefits all pilots when the grass seems to be greener on the other side, even though when you sum it all up it`s pretty much the same.
. You simply cannot compare the two airlines since they stand on totally different hills regarding T&Cs. Mr. Empati says something about total package and benefits being better than NAS`. So true. All the benefits that come along with the employment are, as far as I understand, not existing at NAS. On the other hand, Mr Fatman argues that NAS pays better from year 1 and time to upgrade is significantly shorter than at SAS. This is also true. So it`s really all up to what you prefer. But Fatman, I sincerely hope you guys get a nice raise, as it keeps Norway`s level on the higher end
. It benefits all pilots when the grass seems to be greener on the other side, even though when you sum it all up it`s pretty much the same.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Scandinavia
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@ Dovregubben - maybe you know a lot more than me but the way I look at it there are quite a few pilots who will retire the coming years. Especially considering the impact it will have since one leaving will need 2 upgrading with expansion.
@ Empati - thanks for sorting out the FP / CP thing!
Iīm curious about the roster issue though. How many days off/on per year do a SAS pilot have? We are just being told it is better than NAS, but not being told in which way it is better. Know you got a very good Loss of Lic. insurance.
@ Guttn, thanks, letīs hope we at least get the % you WF got.
TFM
@ Empati - thanks for sorting out the FP / CP thing!
Iīm curious about the roster issue though. How many days off/on per year do a SAS pilot have? We are just being told it is better than NAS, but not being told in which way it is better. Know you got a very good Loss of Lic. insurance.
@ Guttn, thanks, letīs hope we at least get the % you WF got.
TFM
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Moss
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't know at the moment. New contract, new numbers. In general we work 5 on, 4 off. We have fixed, flex and variable, each with it's adv/disadvantages. 4 week vacation. On top of this we have some extra days off, to complex to cover here. I think aprox 300 pilots are working reduced LOA.
BU pay used to be 10% below SK, except the last few years before the merger/takeover. This should be the goal of NAS pilot union too. The regional commuter pay is different from the main line pay at SAS. Well known, and common around the world. However, NAS fly the same size equipment as SAS main line, and pay should be compatible.
Empati
BU pay used to be 10% below SK, except the last few years before the merger/takeover. This should be the goal of NAS pilot union too. The regional commuter pay is different from the main line pay at SAS. Well known, and common around the world. However, NAS fly the same size equipment as SAS main line, and pay should be compatible.
Empati
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Eutopia
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
and quietly....
...Sterling watches from the Gardemoen sidelines, while SAS and DY battle it out...safe in the knowledge that the Danish base can cover the losses sustained in the outstations....gotta give it to those Danes.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: @ some hotel far away from everything
Posts: 734
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At the same time Streling has to ask the Icelandics for more cash to keep the ship from sinking up said creek? Yup, gotta give it to those Danes
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Eutopia
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yep.... Icelandic cash flow and market share in Denmark....gotta have a plan B during these hard economic times...what is the plan B for Norwegian after those spectacular (predicted) losses and no cash injection in sight. Kastrup bases perhaps...(ahhh no all those spots are taken)...Aarlan...no wait..Billund...theres gold in them thar hills boys...Rest easy kids, with the best business mind in Norway behind you its sure to be plain sailing from now on....so grab your life jackets and brush up on your wet ditching skills.....
Aviator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Norveg
Posts: 483
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Icelandic cash flow? Are you kidding me? What cash flow? That little island hasn't got that many keen investors willing to throw money at a sinking ship, and I cannot see any more injections coming Sterlings way... I suppose someone up there will have to step up their illegal fishing in Norwegian waters to fund the injections then
