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Parachute dropping

Old 4th Apr 2011, 19:31
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Pulling the cutaway is the same, don't you understand what I mean, you only have one chance, dead stick or reserve. Are you really that dumb that you don't see what I am talking about?
You're talking stupidly.

A cutaway handle is an emergency device used to separate a main canopy's risers from the container. Using the cutaway handle on a pack-closure creates a potentially very unsafe situation which could foul the reserve on deployment, and may compromise the other canopy.

Canopy transfers and intentional cutaways are done all the time; you seem to be amazed at the concept of having only a reserve in free-fall. That's what you're left with after a cutaway. With 700 jumps, have you never cut away a canopy?

Only one "chance" to land an airplane with no power? How many "chances" do you need? If landing an airplane is a matter of chance for you, you'd best not be calling others "dumb." Step back and re-think your position before you answer.

lso what DZO would like that his 206 has just been at full power to 18,000 feet (I never heard of one going that high but thats where you said you plan it from) and then it is switched off to cool rapidly. It will probably break the engine and require a rebuild or at the very least an inspection.
I have no idea. What drop zone have you flown or jumped where 206's were climbing to 18,000? You're the only one here to suggest such a thing. Why would you switch off a Cessna 206?

Perhaps you're still mumbling about the jumper who takes the key. Carry a second key. Again, not really rocket science.

A caravan at 18,000 is an every-day occurrence, which is part of the reason that a Caravan makes an excellent jump platform. It's got room, a big door,and goes right to 18,000' with no trouble at all, and beats the jumpers back down.
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Old 4th Apr 2011, 20:04
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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A deadstick landing with 18,000' to plan it out isn't exactly rocket science
Your the one that said it.

The rest of what you say is not even worth replying to. I really hope you are just trying to get a rise out of people and don't actually believe what you are saying.
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Old 4th Apr 2011, 20:51
  #23 (permalink)  
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What the hell were you doing at 18,000 feet? That is pushing it and ignoring the very real problems that can occur to both aircraft and humans. The standards you seem to be adopting are dangerous and haven't you heard of 'shock cooling?' Engines, especially Lycomings, do not like it and is not recommended.
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Old 4th Apr 2011, 21:29
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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We look for people who are experienced pilots and not hours builders. The problem with hours builders is they are always looking for an exit and it has to be remembered that it costs us around 15k to train a jump pilot so we want a long term commitment.
15k?? if you can fly to a decent standard then a decent number of lifts, the minimum is four, should suffice, that is at most about 5 hours flying time. Maybe if you paid someone's ppl fees and then hours building costs afterwards this crazy figure might be reached.
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Old 4th Apr 2011, 21:38
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Trex,

I expect he works for either either a dz near you in Nottingham or one further north where they operate turbine aircraft. I doubt 4 lifts would satisfy the owner let alone the insurance and then you have to get a type rating. I can see it getting up to 15K.
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Old 4th Apr 2011, 21:46
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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What the hell were you doing at 18,000 feet? That is pushing it and ignoring the very real problems that can occur to both aircraft and humans. The standards you seem to be adopting are dangerous and haven't you heard of 'shock cooling?' Engines, especially Lycomings, do not like it and is not recommended.
Shock cooling a PT6A in a Cessna Caravan? Say again?

Flying at 18,000 is "pushing it?" How, exactly?

What was I doing at 18,000' dropping jumpers? Have you ever jumped or flown jumpers? How can you possibly ask that question?

What was I doing at 18,000? Flying a routine drop.

Very real problems that occur to both aircraft and humans? From flying at 18,000? It's done every day, all over the world, anywhere that aircraft are available to do it. Yes, 18,000', every day of the week.

This is a subject with which you're not familiar?

How do you "shock cool" a turbine engine again?
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Old 4th Apr 2011, 21:52
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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News : Lack of oxygen caused skydivers' pilot to crash

err dk head, we were talking about a 206/210.
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Old 4th Apr 2011, 21:56
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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I'm curious, where did Guppy say anything about flying a Cessna 206 to 18,000 feet, I can only find his messages about the Cessna Caravan. .

Mutt
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Old 4th Apr 2011, 21:58
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Your point?

Dan Poynter's excellent products cover this thoroughly, as do each respective parachute organization.

You posted a link regarding someone who failed to maintain control of an aircraft, and who was killed by a jumper who failed to protect his reserve, in order to make your point. Your link was, therefore, in error.

You've now posted a link about a pilot who failed to use or provide oxygen, contrary to the USPA BSR's. Again, your point?

err dk head, we were talking about a 206/210.
Are you able to post without name-calling? So far, you don't appear to be able to do that.

The thread is about an individual who would like to build experience while flying jumpers, and who inquired about a way to become involved. In thread #13, you address another poster who referred to a Cessna 206. You're clearly confusing that individual with me, as I've said nothing on the subject of the Cessna 206 or 210 at all.

182 and 206 jumps are normally 14,000 to 16,000 MSL, such as density altitude and load may allow on any given day. Most of my jump flying as been at higher density-altitude mountain drop zones, with a field elevation of 5,000; the ability to reach a reasonable jump altitude varies with the time of year and the number of jumpers aboard.

Where have you seen Cessna 210's used for skydiving? Have you ever jumped one?

I provided a useful link and information specific to the original poster's request. You've spent a lot of time finding fault and name-calling, to say nothing of voicing your opinion of the violence you might do to passengers and clients. Do you think you can make a response that doesn't involve violence or name-calling?

Your the one that said it.
It's "you're," and yes, I know that I said it. I wrote it, after all, and I'll say it again: a dead stick landing with 18,000 to plan it out isn't exactly rocket science.
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Old 4th Apr 2011, 22:06
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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post #18
You mentioned a dead stick landing with 18,000ft to plan it. This was about taking a key out of a plane, caravans don't have keys other than for the doors.

All I am is amazed that you think it is ok to stall a plane intentionally when there is someone outside it.

I have never seen or jumped a 210 jump plane. If you re read this thread you will understand what I am talking about.

I stand by my dk head remark as you think it is ok to risk the lives of jumpers by showing off and stalling a plane with them on the outside, they may not know any better but as a commercial pilot you should.

I did not take long to find fault with your attitude and I am only calling you what you deserve to be called.

Thanks for correcting my grammar, you must be a very smart guy.
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Old 4th Apr 2011, 22:13
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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He mentioned a dead stick landing with 18,000ft to plan it. This was about taking a key out of a plane, caravans don't have keys other than for the doors.
You are confused. Post 18 specifically references a Caravan, actually. Read!

That particular thread was a response to your statement that you intend to "beat the shit" out of clients at the drop zone. It was also a response to your name-calling (something contrary to the rules of this site, incidentally).

I said nothing about a Cessna 206.

Cessna 182's and 206's don't go to 18,000 with jumpers. They go to 16,000'.

A dead stick landing from 16,000 directly over the runway isn't exactly rocket science, any more than one from 18,000.'

I have never seen or jumped a 210 jump plane.
I know that.

All I am is amazed that you think it is ok to stall a plane intentionally when there is someone outside it.
How about with people inside? Is there really much of a difference?

It's not uncommon during jumps to stop the propeller, too. You've obviously never seen that, either.

You seem amazed by a lot of things that are routinely done at drop zones around the globe. A little too amazed to have any experience with jumping or flying jumpers.

I stand by my dk head remark as you think it is ok to risk the lives of jumpers by showing off and stalling a plane with them on the outside, they may not know any better but as a commercial pilot you should.
If you say you made a "dk head remark," then I won't argue with you; you know best. You really can't make a post without name-calling or referencing violence, can you? Even if it's calling yourself a name. Why is that?

No one said anything about showing off.

Quite a few of the jumpers I've flown, incidentally, are commercial pilots.
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Old 4th Apr 2011, 22:16
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Trex,

I expect he works for either either a dz near you in Nottingham or one further north where they operate turbine aircraft. I doubt 4 lifts would satisfy the owner let alone the insurance and then you have to get a type rating. I can see it getting up to 15K.
It takes 10 hours minimum to get the type rating onto the licence as per the training approval. Then we have to teach them to drop. We are not permitted to do drop training during the type rating training. If you work on a rough costs of 800 per hour all in you get an idea of where the costs come from.

So when we train a pilot we want a return on the investment and that generally precludes someone who is going to jump ship at the first sight of a shiny people tube.
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Old 4th Apr 2011, 22:21
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Who is talking about clients? If a pilot intentionally stalled a plane with a friend on the outside I would beat the shit out of him, the pilot, for risking my friends life. Who is the client?

OK I am done with this, you obviously are winding me up as you have no clue. Saying a 206 drops at 16,000 feet shows you are just some sad guy who has never flown and never will fly jumpers or anything else.

Sorry to the guy who asked the first question but I could not read the stuff this guy was saying, like it is ok to stall with someone on the outside, without replying.
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Old 4th Apr 2011, 22:28
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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I did not take long to find fault with your attitude and I am only calling you what you deserve to be called.
Name calling is contrary to the rules of this forum.

Finding fault with my attitude? The attitude that one should wisely carry an extra set of keys when flying piston airplanes at a drop zone? Very dangerous that common sense stuff.

The attitude that it's okay to legally and properly fly jumpers at 18,000? I'd be thrilled to find the basis of your argument to that. Whereas it's an approved activity in an approved aircraft and conducted in accordance with the regulation, you've really no leg to stand on there, do you? You don't. I've dropped jumpers from that altitude, and jumped from that altitude many times.

The attitude that one had better have enough confidence in one's flying ability to be able to make a landing on a runway 18,000 below, on a clear, VFR day in a light airplane? You find this to be some superhuman event, then? A student pilot should be able to do that; I've never soloed a student that couldn't do a power off landing from the traffic pattern routinely and safely, and I can't imagine anyone being so incompetent or so unsure of their ability that they can't land on a runway 16,000 or 18,000 below them, while flying a light airplane on a nice, clear day. You find this a difficult concept?

The attitude that one had better be able to fly the airplane at altitude as jumpers climb out (and in some cases, stay out), or as jumpers shift the center of gravity beyond the aft limits as sometimes happens on a tailgate exit or a rear exit? You find it incredible that one should be expected to maintain control of one's aircraft at all times? I find it rather incredible that one could find such a basic concept incredible.

You find name-calling justified, then? Would the editing moderator who is concerned about shock-cooling a turbine engine kindly review the rules regarding name-calling on this web site?

Thanks for correcting my grammar, you must be a very smart guy.
You're welcome. I'm told that I am, but of course, if you say so.

Who is talking about clients? If a pilot intentionally stalled a plane with a friend on the outside I would beat the shit out of him, the pilot, for risking my friends life. Who is the client?
We've got one poster talking about breaking a jumper's teeth out, and you talking about "beating the shit" out of the pilot. Quite the professional ensemble there. In the professional world, everyone is your client. Your passengers, your dispatchers, the people who work on the aircraft, the fuelers, everyone. This may not be the case in your world, but it certainly is among professionals.

OK I am done with this, you obviously are winding me up as you have no clue. Saying a 206 drops at 16,000 feet shows you are just some sad guy who has never flown and never will fly jumpers or anything else.
You're certainly wound up, with the name-calling and physical threats. I'll give you that. It's not me doing it, however; it's something you've managed by yourself.

Of course a Cessna 206 can drop jumpers at 16,000. I've done it many times. Never been sad about it, either. As for flying jumpers "or anything else," there are lots of other "else's" but that's not really relevant to the thread now, is it?
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Old 5th Apr 2011, 03:24
  #35 (permalink)  
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I'm now way out of touch with jump flying. Guess we were just lucky years ago in Oz. Lightie jump training consisted of a discussion brief over coffee, usually one observation ride - two if the newchum was a bit slow .. and then, away you went on your own.

Subsequently the jumpers were very good at training the new pilot over the course of a couple of sorties by briefing afterwards - and none too gently if the new chap was a bit slow on the uptake. By the time one had half a dozen jumps the basics were well and truly under the belt.

Mind you, jump flying in the DC3 was much more interesting when the occasional jumper would climb out on the tailplane and then refuse to jump but that's another story.
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Old 5th Apr 2011, 08:28
  #36 (permalink)  
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This thread has lost its way unfortunately. It is full of bad advice and bad practices. I am very familiar with para dropping and operating turbines at DZ's - NOT above 13,000' but more usually 12,000'. To ignore the possibilities that lack of oxygen can bring is sheer madness and incrediby bad airmanship. Remember it is NOT allowed in the UK.

As for anyone removing the keys as a prank - the offender should be grounded never to jump again. Taking "spares keys" is NOT an argument and such an incident could easily lead to a crash.

Feel free to start another thread but Guppy will not be joining you.

Read the link above about hypoxia - its dynamite.

And by the way - swearing is not allowed PPRuNe. If you cannot debate without it don't post.

PPP
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