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-   -   Ukraine War Thread Part 2 (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/652441-ukraine-war-thread-part-2-a.html)

Ninthace 28th May 2023 18:12


Originally Posted by Petit-Lion (Post 11441990)
Yes, but with this kind of accounting you are bound to lose a war of attrition. Ukraine must learn to defeat cheap weapons cheaply.

I disagree. If you use a $10,000 missile to destroy a $100 drone directed at a $10.000.000 power station, then I think you are still on a winner.

NutLoose 28th May 2023 18:41

Rearming Ukraines secret weapon.. :E

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NutLoose 28th May 2023 18:42


Originally Posted by Ninthace (Post 11442030)
I disagree. If you use a $10,000 missile to destroy a $100 drone directed at a $10.000.000 power station, then I think you are still on a winner.

I agree, if a drone can bring a hit on a tank or troops then that drone needs removing no matter what it costs.

NutLoose 29th May 2023 01:12

Ok the worries of a tiny minded Propagandist..

Germany will retire the Tornado when the F35 arrive and might give them to Ukraine and they are nuclear capable and might yak yak yak…

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NutLoose 29th May 2023 01:16

Solovyov is worried Ukraine might now move into Belarus lol…


Petit-Lion 29th May 2023 03:29


Originally Posted by Ninthace (Post 11442030)
I disagree. If you use a $10,000 missile to destroy a $100 drone directed at a $10.000.000 power station, then I think you are still on a winner.

But that's how attrition works: the enemy has thousands of cheap drones, and you don't have thousands of expensive missiles. In the long run, the enemy wins.
I don't think there is anything cheaper than AAG to counter that... maybe bird nets around the power station?

ORAC 29th May 2023 06:38

More than 40 missiles and drones were shot down over Kyiv early Monday, Serhii Popko, the head of the city’s military administration, has said on Telegram. Some damage was caused by falling debris but there were no casualties in what was Russia’s 15th assault on the city this month.

Russia was trying to exhaust the country’s air defences with the increased attacks, Popko said, adding: “the enemy is trying to keep the civilian population in deep psychological tension.”

Mayor Vitaliy Klitschko added: “Another difficult night for the capital. But, thanks to the professionalism of our defenders, as a result of the air attack of the barbarians in Kyiv, there was no damage or destruction of infrastructural and other objects, [or] multi-apartment residential buildings.”

​​​​​​​The Ukrainian Air Force says 9 Russian Tu-95MS bombers launched up to 40 Kh-101/Kh-555 cruise missiles, of which 37 were shot down, and ~35 Shahed/ Geran-2 drones, of which 29 were shot down. An ISR UAV was also shot down.

ORAC 29th May 2023 07:24

Interesting thread on Shoigu’s medals - especially Crimea..

Sergei Shoigu's chestful of medals has been highlighted by @rshereme, who points out that the Russian Defence Minister has never served in the military despite his uniform and decorations. But the full story is both ridiculous and revealing. ⬇️

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https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...310827008.html

ORAC 29th May 2023 07:34

👍👍. 🇬🇧🇬🇧

"I can say that of the total number of Storm Shadow launches that have already taken place, all 100% hit the targets set by the General Staff, absolutely effective," the Minister of Defense Oleksii Reznikov said during a live tv show.

fdr 29th May 2023 07:36


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11442225)
Russia was trying to exhaust the country’s air defences with the increased attacks, Popko said, adding: “the enemy is trying to keep the civilian population in deep psychological tension.”

By conducting more war crimes.

Well done Vlad,

Ukraine gets my support against Russia any day, and we can put every Tu-95 crew involved onto the Interpol list as well. Along the with the sub crews that fire Kaliber missiles at civilian targets, that is every sailor and officer, and those that aid and abet their war crimes. When they have no competency in warfare they go with their usual war crime spree. Vlad gets his place in history as a war criminal, as does everyone in the chain of command from the top to the trigger puller.

ORAC 29th May 2023 07:43

Link to original article (in Ukrainian) is in the thread.

Fascinating interview with Ukrainian Air Force Brigader General, Serhii Golubtsov.

Covers F-16s, JDAMS, Storm Shadows and everything in between. Worth a full read but some highlights below;

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...468056065.html
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henra 29th May 2023 08:12


Originally Posted by Petit-Lion (Post 11441990)
Yes, but with this kind of accounting you are bound to lose a war of attrition. Ukraine must learn to defeat cheap weapons cheaply.

Fortunately there are another 15 Gepards going to be sent to Ukraine. That is about as cost effective as it gets against cheap drones like the Iranian ones.
Sadly it seems a good number of the former 430 Gepards of the German Army have been scrapped in the infite wisdom of the peace drunk politicians of the time 10 years ago.
New systems (Skyranger, Skynex) are expensive and only in the testing phase, i.e. not deliverable off the shelf. The carelessness for a Plan B of the European Politicians of the last two or three decades is mind boggling.

Video Mixdown 29th May 2023 08:19


Originally Posted by fdr (Post 11442253)
By conducting more war crimes.
Well done Vlad,
Ukraine gets my support against Russia any day, and we can put every Tu-95 crew involved onto the Interpol list as well.

If only we could give Ukraine a weapon that would put them on the 'shot down' list.

ORAC 29th May 2023 10:09

​​​​​​​Poland has announced it will close the border for freight vehicles registered in Russia and Belarus indefinitely.

ORAC 29th May 2023 10:43

We discuss republics/regions in Russia and examine their potential to break up from Russia.

Tuva

Tartarstan

Dagestan


ORAC 29th May 2023 11:01

Includes video of attack.
BREAKING

Ukraine air force says new Russia's attack on Kyiv involved ballistic missiles as well as S-300 or S-400 missiles.

A total of 11 missiles (Iskander-M and Iskander-K) were launched towards Kyiv and its region from the northern direction.

​​​​​​​ All targets were destroyed by air defense forces and means, Commander-in-Chief Zaluzhnyi reports.

fdr 29th May 2023 11:01


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11442353)
We discuss republics/regions in Russia and examine their potential to break up from Russia.
Tuva
Tartarstan
Dagestan

ORAC, would like to be giving a like for your post, however, the background issue is that the breakdown of the RF will be a disaster for Russia, (on the good side of the ledger, richly deserved, however, it is going to give far wider instability and uncertainty to the food supplies from the Former Russian Federation, FRF (AKA CIS, AKA former USSR) Anyone who has a need for food from the FRF is going to be needing a new supplier for a period, the only sure thing is that as the whole bog of Moscow's party goes down the drain, output other than to the sewers will decline. With China already facing a potential of famine conditions in the next year, the breakup is going to make some weird stuff happen. Makes it hard to "like" when there is a lot of suffering that is going to come down the sewer pipe that is the current RF as it becomes the FRF.

And that is without having to deal with another 20 odd nuke states that know with certainty they cannot rely on Moscow to keep its word, and they sure can't rely on the West to protect them if the disarm their own nuke arsenals. Not after the west reneged on the security commitment it made with Ukraine that was dishonoured in 2014.

sealo0 29th May 2023 12:05


Originally Posted by fdr (Post 11442363)
ORAC, would like to be giving a like for your post, however, the background issue is that the breakdown of the RF will be a disaster for Russia, (on the good side of the ledger, richly deserved, however, it is going to give far wider instability and uncertainty to the food supplies from the Former Russian Federation, (AKA CIS, AKA former USSF) Anyone who has a need for food from the FRF is going to be needing a new supplier for a period, the only sure thing is that as the whole bog of Moscow's party goes down the drain, output other than to the sewers will decline. With China already facing a potential of famine conditions in the next year, the breakup is going to make some weird stuff happen. Makes it hard to "like" when there is a lot of suffering that is going to come down the sewer pipe that is the current RF as it becomes the FRF.

And that is without having to deal with another 20 odd nuke states that know with certainty they cannot rely on Moscow to keep its word, and they sure can't rely on the West to protect them if the disarm their own nuke arsenals. Not after the west reneged on the security commitment it made with Ukraine that was dishonoured in 2014.

I have said for some time now that we ( the world ) should be planting wheat or rice not trees or come to think of it solar panels

mike

Beamr 29th May 2023 12:48

Russia (and Belarus) are being left alone more and more.
Kazakhstan has differentiated itself even more clearly from Russia, both economically and militarily.
Very important, both for current war and future.



Rockie_Rapier 29th May 2023 16:05


Originally Posted by fdr (Post 11442363)
ORAC, would like to be giving a like for your post, however, the background issue is that the breakdown of the RF will be a disaster for Russia, (on the good side of the ledger, richly deserved, however, it is going to give far wider instability and uncertainty to the food supplies from the Former Russian Federation, FRF (AKA CIS, AKA former USSR) Anyone who has a need for food from the FRF is going to be needing a new supplier for a period, the only sure thing is that as the whole bog of Moscow's party goes down the drain, output other than to the sewers will decline. With China already facing a potential of famine conditions in the next year, the breakup is going to make some weird stuff happen. Makes it hard to "like" when there is a lot of suffering that is going to come down the sewer pipe that is the current RF as it becomes the FRF.

But the eventual breakup of the Russian Federation seems inevitable and isn't this the fate of former empires? Maybe best to get it over with and provide support to the population and try and get them started on a new, democratic system which is not intrinsically corrupt.

And at the risk of repeating points made on the JetBlast thread, before it became the StayCalm thread. The west may well have to go in and take charge of those nukes as well.


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