A separate discussion that does not belong here.

Yellow Sun, that is a fantastic article, thanks.

Insightful quotes: "don't expect to counter the firehose of falsehood with the squirtgun of truth"....and when discussing ways to counter the attack - "Compete!", otherwise you're always on the defensive.

Nuke option?
 

Just a quick note a leader must have willingness to demonstrate the capability and resolve to use a nuke in response to escalation.

BUFF mission in the 80s if needed, not likely the doctrine has changed except maybe the platform or weapon.

Ukraine MoD has made a half an hour video called "Absolute evil" of Russian war crimes in Ukraine to be shown to the Russian POW's.
It is graphic, as can be imagined. An in English narrated version of the video can be found from this site:

https://www.documentingreality.com/f...kraine-244175/

Short, sweet and nails it.

​​​​​​​

They appear to be crapping themselves In Belgorod


​​​​​​​

Unconfirmed Reports that an Su-35 Multirole Fighter Aircraft of the Russian Air Force which was conducting Combat Operations against the Kherson Region, was Shot Down by Ukrainian Air Defenses over the Black Sea.

The Su-35 was reportedly Armed with KAB-500S Guided-Aerial Bombs which were being utilized against Air Defense Sites in the Kherson Region.

Footage of what is claimed to be the Su-35 launching its Guided-Aerial Bombs and Flares off the Coast of the Mykolaiv Region at Targets in Kherson right before it was Shot Down by a Surface-to-Air Missile.

​​​​​​​Ukrainian Sources are reporting that the Russian Pilot of the Su-35 was Killed in the Crash.

Well said report on the Bakhmut offensive and the futility of Russia supposed victory.

​​​​​​​

And to make the futility of it even more striking Ukraine is close to encircling it.

​​​​​​​

Trust.
 

Just what Putin would want: armed prospective turncoats.

Exactly, It takes me back to the 70's where a machine shop had been ticking along quite nicely for 20 years or so. When the first guy retired, despite trying a number of replacement operators no-one could make the machine work with any degree of precision, the machine had to be scrapped. Five years on the entire machine shop was scrapped. Russia has this problem, their infrastructure is old and that guy who had been looking after it for years is gone. After the mobilization a number of fires and failures were being reported and yes some of them may well be sabotage, but many would be old infrastructure syndrome too. This story was the very first thing that sprang to mind when I started hearing about those failures. You don't need to lose too many of them before it all rolls up in a ball. "But Ivan used to look after that, no-one else knows what he used to do back there".

Good shot lol.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....3fc972ec6.jpeg
​​​​​​​

They hit a Russian airfield last night, no reports of the damage, that’s an old picture.

"The winter-spring joint campaign of the RF Armed Forces and Wagner to exterminate our infantry on the Donetsk sector of the front ended successfully."History will show whether the Ukraine action in accepting the opportunity to deplete the invaders forces in such a location was brilliant or wasteful. Suspect that it will be seen to have been effective if still costly in the lives of the defenders. The same history will not be kind on the invaders stupidity.
To describe Prighozin's "Victory" in Bakhmut as "phyrric" does a disservice to Phyrrus. At the Battle of Asculum, Phyrrus lost 3500 troops to the Roman's 6000, and made the comment when the outcome was called a victory that they would not be able to survive more victories like that. Phyrrus recognised the situation to the extent he disengaged from his actions up the calf of Italy, and instead went and spent 3 years dukin' it out in western Sicily against the Carthaginians.
Smart dude.
Hannibal rated Phyrrus as one of the top generals in history (#2's after Alexander the Great)
After the "If we are victorious in one more battle with the Romans, we shall be utterly ruined." comment at Asculum (todays Ascoli Satriano, SW of Foggia, Apulia), 279BC, and going and beating up on the Carthaginians, and getting on the bad side of the cities he was there to help, he ended up back in SE Italy in 285BC and got defeated by the home team from Rome, making his comment of 279BC prophetic as well as memorable (thanks, Pliny).
The difference between Phyrrus and Prigozin and Prigozin's master, Lord Farquard, is that Phyrrus was a great general, and his losses in what he considered as a disaster, but which was otherwise recorded as a victory were 1:5 overall, whereas the invaders of Bakhmut are 7:1 or thereabouts, about 35 times worse loss rate to gain illegal occupancy as fertiliser of a city that has no particular strategic relevance, suggesting that the slug fest was worthy of Westmoreland's tactical moniker, "attrite 'em all", just done wrong.
Prigozin could get a mention in dispatches for attriting the stuffing out of the invaders forces and achieving a rubble strewn waste land fertilised with his own dead.

"The fight for Bakhmut will change the trajectory of our war for independence and for freedom." - Zelensky before Congress


David Sacks via Twitter (@DavidSacks):

What is the significance of Bakhmut? Here’s what the MSM should be telling you:

1) Regional transport & logistics hub: Bakhmut gives Russia access to key roads and rail. It places larger cities of Kramatorsk and Sloviansk within easy range of Russian artillery. Hence Zelensky’s earlier comment that the loss of Bakhmut would give the Russians an “open road” to rest of Donetsk.

2) Unique defensive fortifications: Bakhmut’s network of subterranean salt mines and tunnels (100+ miles) contributed to its defensibility. It also provides an underground complex to stockpile weapons, munitions and equipment. Ukraine has other lines of defense but Bakhmut may have been unique.

3) “Fortress Bakhmut”: Bakhmut became a rallying cry for Ukrainian resistance. Zelensky called it “the fortress of our morale” and gave a Bakhmut flag to the US Congress. “The fight for Bakhmut will change the trajectory of our war for independence and for freedom,” he said.

4) “Operation Meat Grinder”: Russia may have used Bakhmut as a trap to lure in Ukrainian troops and generals, causing them massive casualties and imperiling the Ukrainian counteroffensive. Prigozhin videos claiming the Russians were running out of ammo (which were eagerly reported by MSM) may have been part of the trap.

Sources:
1) reuters(dot)com/world/europe/bakhmut-why-russia-ukraine-are-battling-so-hard-one-small-city-2023-03-14/
2) reuters(dot)com/world/europe/russian-mercenary-boss-says-wants-ukraines-bakhmut-its-underground-cities-2023-01-07/
3) bbc(dot)com/news/world-europe-64877991.amp
4) twitter(dot)com/kathleen_tyson

Re above. Ah, yes, the Russian view. Yes I have read that before, probably several times in this thread, certainly in the first half of it. Even in the MSM. Nothing new there then.

So you don't see any signs of a "sour grapes" attitude regarding Bakhmut? It wasn't deemed strategically critical earlier, but poo poo'd as no big deal now that it's fallen? Very well. It's really none of my business. Just something I noticed.

There is Ukrainian propaganda, and Russian propaganda, and the truth is probably somewhere in between. I try not to get emotionally dragged too deep in either direction, just reading and noting and biding my time! :ok: I am sure there is some truth in what you have posted, but Ukraine has the most at stake in this fight so I would like to cut them some slack. Perhaps now that Russia has bombed and phosphorus-fired Bakhmut completely flat, (congratulations Russia by the way, on another job well done) it is time for Ukraine to concentrate firepower on it and squash Bakhmut even flatter than it is already, down into the champagne cellars if necessary.

They won't be able to reach Kramatorsk and Sloviansk with 152s. Kramatorsk and Sloviansk are 20 and 24 miles from Bakhmut . It's not really a logistics hub, there's a rail line from the south, but it doesn't connect to anything useful for the Russians and the Bakhmut area sits in a bowel with Ukrainian held high ground to the north and west, that's not a good situation for the Russians.
If they load up those mines with munitions, they might lose all those munitions quickly. Their depots need to be many miles behind the lines.
And that 'fortress' completely stalled the Russian winter offensive.
The meat grinder worked the other way. Defense has a large advantage, especially in a case like this where giving up ground was part of the defensive plan.

I'll have to take your word for it as I don't know such details for myself. All I know with certainty is the narrative has shifted again. Should I wonder if I'm being lied to?