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Originally Posted by larssnowpharter
(Post 12072083)
This statement is factually inaccurate . It was the UN that tasked the Coalition led by the USA. Many other nations took part. The subsequent "failure to win the peace" was also a joint effort.
Doonesbury perhaps. AI.
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Originally Posted by larssnowpharter
(Post 12072083)
This statement is factually inaccurate . It was the UN that tasked the Coalition led by the USA. Many other nations took part. The subsequent "failure to win the peace" was also a joint effort.
We can read POTUS like a book and all who support him :ugh: |
Reports coming in that the Strait is 'fully opened' now after Iran (supposedly), makes a deal - Apparently, it's linked to the Isreal/Lebanon ceasefire...
US-Iran war live updates: Strait of Hormuz declared ‘fully open’ by Iran | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site for latest headlines Iran war live: Trump hails Hormuz Strait opening as Lebanon ceasefire holds | US-Israel war on Iran News | Al Jazeera Iran says Strait of Hormuz is 'open' as Trump says US blockade will continue until deal reached - follow live - BBC News |
Bullshirt, Bonkey.
We can read POTUS like a book and all who support him You - and quite a few others who post here - demonstrate an utter failure to get what that utterer of things is doing. I've been paying attention to that approach to politics and political rhetoric since about mid-2015. Huh? What? You doubtless ask. Answer in the spoiler.
Spoiler
This matters, in the information age, because information is a weapon of war. A lot of you commenting here have shown time and again that you have not grasped that to its fullest. During the first term (where Iran got a lot of hot air directed at it, and the "deal" which they cheated on (60% enrichment, anyone?) was canceled, and their top IRGC leader was blatantly assassinated in Iraq, the rhetoric maintained a similar style. I had begun to view it - the sloppy and oftern incorrect rhetoric - as a careless case of a deception plan as far back as 2018 while the engagement with North Korea was begun (and ultimately abandoned). But remember: the explicit choice to evade, or to do an end around of the traditional media and use Twatter/SoshulMedja as a means of getting messages out, was firmly established by then: 2018. As was the carelessness with, and indifference to, facts. That was a well established pattern by the end of that four year era, both as regards international security matters and local matters. The predecessor and successor reverted to traditional styles that most of us were used to...styles perfected over the course of the previous 40 years. (1986-2016). With four years off to perfect a particular messaging method, and to establish a series of aims and goals, that idiosyncratic method of using information as a weapon - both fact and fiction - has not changed. Indeed, it has been turned up to about 11. (Credit to Spinal Tap for that one). And you are one of its billions of targets. What that means for you, for me, and for anyone interested in how the military does stuff during the information saturation age - we are now beginning the second quarter of the 21st century, and we've had about 30+ years to learn what Information Age Warfare is all about - is to understand that 1. there is no plan without a deception plan. (which is old Red Army doctrine that remains more or less true) 2. saturating the airwaves with noise is a method of aiding and abetting one's deception plan. 3. Due to the established trait of "unreliable narrator" that DJT established 11 years ago, you have to presume that anything that comes out of his mouth is a part of the deception plan until otherwise proven to align with fact. Again: fact is the exception, not the rule, in this method of using Information Age tools. There are a variety of people who have the ear of any national leader: be it the Grand Ayatollan, the Prime Minister, the Party Secretary, or the President of Country X, Y, or Z. The leaders pick (for a variety of reasons) whom to listen to on a given day, and then shape their messages -- remember, messaging and information are weapons, and the Information War is 24/7 regardless of whether bullets are flying and bombs are dropping -- in order to have an effect. 4. Massing of Effects. That's one of the principles of war, in the Information War as much as in any kinetic war. Massing effects isn't just related to artillery, small arms fire, air dropped ordnance, or missiles. It also includes the Psyops piece and the Information piece. Mass the Effects on the chosen targets. I say again, you are a target. I am a target. We are targets. Adide: albatross, welcome to the Woke, Politically Correct 21st Century. "Kinetic Effects" is a term that will continue to be used whether you like it or not, and whether I like it or not, since the Information Age war has everyone -- military professionals and Every One Else (that is most of the planet) -- as a target. Information Age Warfare, 101. 5. Whatever comes out of the mouth of a political leader in war, you are advised to do the following: a. get out your box of salt b. add a few grains. c. or add a tablespoon full. You are a target in their information campaign. You are welcome for the primer in Information Age Warfare. The leaders of Iran and the US have been slinging any number of lines of BS since about 28 February, as has the leaderr of the other party to this war, Israel. How is your Integrated (Hot)Air Defense network doing? Mine's healthy, but I suggest that you upgrade yours. In simpler terms: if you take anything that DJT says about the current conflict at face value, you've just shot yourself in the foot. |
Originally Posted by larssnowpharter
(Post 12072083)
This statement is factually inaccurate . It was the UN that tasked the Coalition led by the USA. Many other nations took part. The subsequent "failure to win the peace" was also a joint effort.
This was true in the Korean war, it was true in Kosovo, it was true in Libya. Bonkey is simply repeating the lie. BTW, kudos Lone Wolf - that is perhaps the best explanation of the current POTUS I've seen. Most politicians play fast and loose with the facts - this one has simply perfected it. |
@tdracer: suffice to say that I prefer GHW Bush's (aka Bush 41) style and approach to both natonal security and international collective security.
Sux to be me, I guess. @albatross: yeah, Japanese support to Desert Storm was quite the bonus, much discussed in our geostrategy modules at staff college. |
Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
(Post 12072176)
Bullshirt, Bonkey.
your post demonstrates that you cannot. You - and quite a few others who post here - demonstrate an utter failure to get what that utterer of things is doing. I've been paying attention to that approach to politics and political rhetoric since about mid-2015. Huh? What? You doubtless ask. Answer in the spoiler.
Spoiler
This matters, in the information age, because information is a weapon of war. A lot of you commenting here have shown time and again that you have not grasped that to its fullest. During the first term (where Iran got a lot of hot air directed at it, and the "deal" which they cheated on (60% enrichment, anyone?) was canceled, and their top IRGC leader was blatantly assassinated in Iraq, the rhetoric maintained a similar style. I had begun to view it - the sloppy and oftern incorrect rhetoric - as a careless case of a deception plan as far back as 2018 while the engagement with North Korea was begun (and ultimately abandoned). But remember: the explicit choice to evade, or to do an end around of the traditional media and use Twatter/SoshulMedja as a means of getting messages out, was firmly established by then: 2018. As was the carelessness with, and indifference to, facts. That was a well established pattern by the end of that four year era, both as regards international security matters and local matters. The predecessor and successor reverted to traditional styles that most of us were used to...styles perfected over the course of the previous 40 years. (1986-2016). With four years off to perfect a particular messaging method, and to establish a series of aims and goals, that idiosyncratic method of using information as a weapon - both fact and fiction - has not changed. Indeed, it has been turned up to about 11. (Credit to Spinal Tap for that one). And you are one of its billions of targets. What that means for you, for me, and for anyone interested in how the military does stuff during the information saturation age - we are now beginning the second quarter of the 21st century, and we've had about 30+ years to learn what Information Age Warfare is all about - is to understand that 1. there is no plan without a deception plan. (which is old Red Army doctrine that remains more or less true) 2. saturating the airwaves with noise is a method of aiding and abetting one's deception plan. 3. Due to the established trait of "unreliable narrator" that DJT established 11 years ago, you have to presume that anything that comes out of his mouth is a part of the deception plan until otherwise proven to align with fact. Again: fact is the exception, not the rule, in this method of using Information Age tools. There are a variety of people who have the ear of any national leader: be it the Grand Ayatollan, the Prime Minister, the Party Secretary, or the President of Country X, Y, or Z. The leaders pick (for a variety of reasons) whom to listen to on a given day, and then shape their messages -- remember, messaging and information are weapons, and the Information War is 24/7 regardless of whether bullets are flying and bombs are dropping -- in order to have an effect. 4. Massing of Effects. That's one of the principles of war, in the Information War as much as in any kinetic war. Massing effects isn't just related to artillery, small arms fire, air dropped ordnance, or missiles. It also includes the Psyops piece and the Information piece. Mass the Effects on the chosen targets. I say again, you are a target. I am a target. We are targets. Adide: albatross, welcome to the Woke, Politically Correct 21st Century. "Kinetic Effects" is a term that will continue to be used whether you like it or not, and whether I like it or not, since the Information Age war has everyone -- military professionals and Every One Else (that is most of the planet) -- as a target. Information Age Warfare, 101. 5. Whatever comes out of the mouth of a political leader in war, you are advised to do the following: a. get out your box of salt b. add a few grains. c. or add a tablespoon full. You are a target in their information campaign. You are welcome for the primer in Information Age Warfare. The leaders of Iran and the US have been slinging any number of lines of BS since about 28 February, as has the leaderr of the other party to this war, Israel. How is your Integrated (Hot)Air Defense network doing? Mine's healthy, but I suggest that you upgrade yours. In simpler terms: if you take anything that DJT says about the current conflict at face value, you've just shot yourself in the foot. |
Trump is saying that the strait of Hormuz is “totally open” - but the US blockade against Iran remains in place. He is also claiming the USA is to take possession of Iran’s processed uranium and take it back to the States.
Iran obviously disagrees. Numerous ships making the break for the Strait of Hormuz this evening have made abrupt U-turns and are heading back towards the Persian Gulf. Over a dozen ships have already turned back. Ships have aborted their passage through the Strait, probably due to warninga from Iran and the IRGC. There is a large congregation of ships forming off Khasba, very near the southern portion of the Strait. Definitely something to watch. Iran rejected two of President Trump's central claims from the day's talks: Tehran denied ever agreeing to transfer its enriched uranium out of the country, and said it would continue restricting ship traffic through the Strait of Hormuz. Iran Calls Enriched Uranium “Sacred” and Rejects Any Deal to Ship It Abroad Iran has come out strongly against reports saying it would send its highly enriched uranium to other countries. The foreign ministry spokesman, Esmail Baghaei, said these claims are not true. He made it clear that Iran has no plans to move the material out of the country. Baghaei used strong words to explain Iran’s position. He said enriched uranium is “sacred” to Iran, just as important as Iranian soil itself. This shows how much the country values its nuclear program and sees it as a key part of its national pride and security. The spokesman also denied any direct talks between Iranian officials and US President Donald Trump. He said those reports were also false. This denial comes as tensions over Iran’s nuclear work continue to make headlines around the world. Many people watch closely what Iran says about its uranium because it affects global talks on nuclear safety and peace in the Middle East. By calling the material sacred, Iran is sending a clear message: it will keep full control of its enriched uranium and is not open to deals that would take it abroad. https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....9f0774ee8.jpeg |
Must you naysayers not appreciate what the United States (alone) has accomplished against Iran? Would you prefer a ready and cheap supply of petrol or a ready and cheap supply of gamma radiation?
In time you might thank us. - Ed |
Originally Posted by cavuman1
(Post 12072264)
Must you naysayers not appreciate what the United States (alone) has accomplished against Iran? Would you prefer a ready and cheap supply of petrol or a ready and cheap supply of gamma radiation?
In time you might thank us. - Ed |
Originally Posted by cavuman1
(Post 12072264)
Must you naysayers not appreciate what the United States (alone) has accomplished against Iran? Would you prefer a ready and cheap supply of petrol or a ready and cheap supply of gamma radiation?
In time you might thank us. - Ed |
Originally Posted by Bug
(Post 12072274)
Are you sure what the US and Israel have done has reduced the risk of nuclear Iran, or just reinforced their determination, as well as made other nations see the value in having nuclear weapons?
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
(Post 12072176)
.................. This matters, in the information age, because information is a weapon of war. A lot of you commenting here have shown time and again that you have not grasped that to its fullest.
........................................ 3. Due to the established trait of "unreliable narrator" that DJT established 11 years ago, you have to presume that anything that comes out of his mouth is a part of the deception plan until otherwise proven to align with fact. ........ The real problem I have is I simply don't think the bloke in the WH welding his "Information Weapons" has the remotest clue what he's doing with them and that even his grasp on his Aims is tenuous! |
On the 11th January, Trump told the Iranians to "keep protesting, help is on the way...". To me, this indicates that regime change was the primary aim of the attack.
Only after this failed and the protesters were slaughtered, was the WMD justification dusted off again (where have we seen that before...) |
Originally Posted by Low average
(Post 12072376)
On the 11th January, Trump told the Iranians to "keep protesting, help is on the way...". To me, this indicates that regime change was the primary aim of the attack.
Only after this failed and the protesters were slaughtered, was the WMD justification dusted off again (where have we seen that before...) So was the delay in "Op Epic Chaos" caused by the time it takes, at short notice, to cobble together another go at Iran for a bit more "regime change" post-Venezuela? And could the WMD "aim" being dusted off again be more of an admission that the June 2025 missions had not achieved what was needed so another crack at that could be tacked on to "rescuing the Iranian people" bit without people really noticing? And, of course, Netanyahu jumped at the chance to join in the melee! So there are links but quite how coherent and pre-meditated such links are is debateable. They give more of a feel of "convenient happenstance" rather than lazer-like long-term strategic focus. And, again, the "Law of Unintended Consequences" comes in to play as outlined in this summary of the Venezuelan adventure which talks about some of those consequences, some of which will worry the US and, as we now know, most won't. Meanwhile, from an article today, in the Straits of Hormuz, Tankers and container ships u-turn. Seems people are being very cautious. Now that seems to be an excellent plan if you are bobbing about in the Oggin! :ok: |
Originally Posted by larssnowpharter
(Post 12072083)
This statement is factually inaccurate . It was the UN that tasked the Coalition led by the USA. Many other nations took part. The subsequent "failure to win the peace" was also a joint effort.
Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
(Post 12072176)
Bullshirt, Bonkey.
your post demonstrates that you cannot. You - and quite a few others who post here - demonstrate an utter failure to get what that utterer of things is doing. I've been paying attention to that approach to politics and political rhetoric since about mid-2015. Huh? What? You doubtless ask. Answer in the spoiler.
Spoiler
This matters, in the information age, because information is a weapon of war. A lot of you commenting here have shown time and again that you have not grasped that to its fullest. During the first term (where Iran got a lot of hot air directed at it, and the "deal" which they cheated on (60% enrichment, anyone?) was canceled, and their top IRGC leader was blatantly assassinated in Iraq, the rhetoric maintained a similar style. I had begun to view it - the sloppy and oftern incorrect rhetoric - as a careless case of a deception plan as far back as 2018 while the engagement with North Korea was begun (and ultimately abandoned). But remember: the explicit choice to evade, or to do an end around of the traditional media and use Twatter/SoshulMedja as a means of getting messages out, was firmly established by then: 2018. As was the carelessness with, and indifference to, facts. That was a well established pattern by the end of that four year era, both as regards international security matters and local matters. The predecessor and successor reverted to traditional styles that most of us were used to...styles perfected over the course of the previous 40 years. (1986-2016). With four years off to perfect a particular messaging method, and to establish a series of aims and goals, that idiosyncratic method of using information as a weapon - both fact and fiction - has not changed. Indeed, it has been turned up to about 11. (Credit to Spinal Tap for that one). And you are one of its billions of targets. What that means for you, for me, and for anyone interested in how the military does stuff during the information saturation age - we are now beginning the second quarter of the 21st century, and we've had about 30+ years to learn what Information Age Warfare is all about - is to understand that 1. there is no plan without a deception plan. (which is old Red Army doctrine that remains more or less true) 2. saturating the airwaves with noise is a method of aiding and abetting one's deception plan. 3. Due to the established trait of "unreliable narrator" that DJT established 11 years ago, you have to presume that anything that comes out of his mouth is a part of the deception plan until otherwise proven to align with fact. Again: fact is the exception, not the rule, in this method of using Information Age tools. There are a variety of people who have the ear of any national leader: be it the Grand Ayatollan, the Prime Minister, the Party Secretary, or the President of Country X, Y, or Z. The leaders pick (for a variety of reasons) whom to listen to on a given day, and then shape their messages -- remember, messaging and information are weapons, and the Information War is 24/7 regardless of whether bullets are flying and bombs are dropping -- in order to have an effect. 4. Massing of Effects. That's one of the principles of war, in the Information War as much as in any kinetic war. Massing effects isn't just related to artillery, small arms fire, air dropped ordnance, or missiles. It also includes the Psyops piece and the Information piece. Mass the Effects on the chosen targets. I say again, you are a target. I am a target. We are targets. Adide: albatross, welcome to the Woke, Politically Correct 21st Century. "Kinetic Effects" is a term that will continue to be used whether you like it or not, and whether I like it or not, since the Information Age war has everyone -- military professionals and Every One Else (that is most of the planet) -- as a target. Information Age Warfare, 101. 5. Whatever comes out of the mouth of a political leader in war, you are advised to do the following: a. get out your box of salt b. add a few grains. c. or add a tablespoon full. You are a target in their information campaign. You are welcome for the primer in Information Age Warfare. The leaders of Iran and the US have been slinging any number of lines of BS since about 28 February, as has the leaderr of the other party to this war, Israel. How is your Integrated (Hot)Air Defense network doing? Mine's healthy, but I suggest that you upgrade yours. In simpler terms: if you take anything that DJT says about the current conflict at face value, you've just shot yourself in the foot. |
Originally Posted by West Coast
(Post 12072334)
The hell that’s rained down upon Iran is a resultant of attempts to become a nuclear state. I think that’s the lesson most nations will take away.
It’s all well and good for the USA to be the biggest bully in the playground but it doesn’t seem to know how to behave when the little kid who USA has just battered keeps getting back up and continues doing what he has always been doing. I have no desire to see Iran get nuclear weapons and I am full of professional admiration for all the US military - I will let others ruminate on what I have not said. |
...............
According to two Channel 16 audio recordings captured today, two Indian vessels were forced back west out of the Strait of Hormuz by Iran's Sepah (IRGC) Navy. Firing was involved. One of the vessels is an Indian-flagged VLCC supertanker carrying 2 million barrels of Iraqi oil. Meanwhile, India is still importing Iranian oil. With friends like these..... Sepah Navy! Motor Tanker Sanmar Herald! Sanmar Herald! Sepah Navy! You gave me clearance! You gave me clearance to go! Sepah Navy! Sepah Navy! This is motor tanker Sanmar Herald! You gave me clearance to go! My name second on your list! You gave me clearance to go! You are firing now! Let me turn back!” From a 31 second long recording sent to us from within the maritime community. We receive these regularly. |
Pakistan Navy has joined the Chinese, Indian and US navies in the Gulf. Not sure who else is where by now....
The Pakistan Navy continues its deployments in the Gulf of Oman, likely securing its energy-linked interests, as multiple Pakistan-flagged tankers carrying oil products transit the region en route to Karachi. https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....07a5203e33.png |
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