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Asturias56 7th July 2025 08:17

"This only applies if both sides are rational actors who are not seeking the end of the world."

Well NK has one - and they have to be as irrational as it gets............... but they still don't want to lose power. Even the maddest mullah who would bomb Israel tomorrow is held back by the certainty that they and all their supporters will also die

bilby_qld 7th July 2025 09:38


Originally Posted by Asturias56 (Post 11917157)
"This only applies if both sides are rational actors who are not seeking the end of the world."

Well NK has one - and they have to be as irrational as it gets............... but they still don't want to lose power. Even the maddest mullah who would bomb Israel tomorrow is held back by the certainty that they and all their supporters will also die

That rationale was used to plan the response to aircraft hijackings, until the events of 9/11 exposed the simple flaw:

It is not always correct to assume that an adversary will wish to survive.

Asturias56 7th July 2025 11:51

Half a dozen guys in an aircraft is one thing - a nuclear armed state is another

Lonewolf_50 7th July 2025 14:58


Originally Posted by Asturias56 (Post 11917294)
Half a dozen guys in an aircraft is one thing - a nuclear armed state is another

I think bilby's point is worth taking on board, so your dismissal comes off as a bit tone deaf. :confused:

Lonewolf_50 7th July 2025 17:27

Back to news from Iran, this was in an article in Newsweek.

Originally Posted by excerpts from that article
Iran's nuclear facilities were "severely damaged" in military strikes launched by the United States last month, the country's president has said.

President Masoud Pezeshkian told conservative commentator Tucker Carlson that the U.S. strikes on Iran were "illegal," and that the nation had never intended to develop a nuclear bomb. President Donald Trump announced on June 21 that the U.S. had conducted successful airstrikes against three key Iranian nuclear facilities—Fordow, Natanz and Isfahan. Pezeshkian added that Iran was ready to resume talks on verifying its nuclear program after it suspended its cooperation with the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) following the Israeli and U.S. strikes. He also said that Israel had attempted to assassinate him.

Pezeshkian's interview offers the clearest snapshot yet into Tehran's thinking following last month's military strikes on Iranian nuclear sites which Trump says were destroyed, following Israel's Operation Rising Lion. It also raises the possibility that Iran could cooperate with the IAEA although the president's comments that Tehran never wanted to develop a nuclear bomb are likely to be widely dismissed.

In a wide-ranging interview released Monday, Pezeshkian reiterated Tehran's rhetoric, vehemently denied by Israel and the U.S, that Iran had never sought to develop a nuclear bomb. Pezeshkian said Israel's attacks had "torpedoed" negotiations Tehran was undertaking with the U.S. but added that Iran was ready to have its nuclear program supervised. However, U.S. attacks had damaged many pieces of equipment and facilities "therefore we don't have any access to them." He also said Israel tried to assassinate him by bombarding an area in which he was holding a meeting "but they failed." Trump has already said he blocked Israel from trying to assassinate Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

Iranian President Masoud Pezeshkian: "We are ready to hold talks over it... we stand ready to have these supervisions." He also said: "It was not the United States that was behind the attempt on my life. It was Israel." Speculation will remain over the state of Iran's nuclear program especially regarding the location of its enriched uranium.
Daryl G. Kimball, executive director of the Arms Control Association said in an article released Monday that the bombardment of underground portions of the Natanz and Fordow uranium enrichment plants and the Isfahan uranium conversion facility "inflicted heavy damage but did not eliminate the program."

There is some interesting messaging going on there, but 'we can start talks again' seems to be trickling out. (All of the bold text is my attempt at emphasis)

spinex 7th July 2025 18:41


Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 (Post 11917460)
Back to news from Iran, this was in an article in Newsweek.

There is some interesting messaging going on there, but 'we can start talks again' seems to be trickling out. (All of the bold text is my attempt at emphasis)

Frankly, that just comes across as Carlson delivering the latest propaganda/IW, or whatever this week's cute tag is, for BS developed in and around Moscow, and aimed at fracturing Western alliances.

Lonewolf_50 7th July 2025 21:14

Why do you think that the President of Iran agreed to being interviewed by Carlson?

I'll offer you a thought: lots of other news organs, and/or interviewers, wanted to get an interview but that's the one he agreed to. Why? Likely to be non-hostile in tone.
But I suggest that you not doubt that President Masoud Pezeshkian was using this (non hostile) interview as an opportunity to get some of his own messaging out. (There's a technique called bridging that sometimes works, and sometimes doesn't).

spinex 8th July 2025 00:02

We could theorise until the cows are back in the barn and still never know, as always the truth doubtless lies somewhere between. My comment was however, aimed more at Carlson, of whom "non hostile" is possibly the nicest thing you could say. Pezeshkian may prefer the term taqiyya to describe his utterances.

DogTailRed2 8th July 2025 16:39

Interesting listening to the London Bombing commemorations this week. It was reported that since the bombings the UK has foiled more than 20 Iranian backed attacks against it's citizens. Food for thought when people complain about how the West is treating Iran.

ORAC 9th July 2025 12:38

Iran has reportedly received Chinese-made HQ-9B long-range air defense systems.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....507843bfef.png

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/ar...r-defence-hq9b

https://defencesecurityasia.com/en/i...rategic-shift/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulidd...-market-share/



Lonewolf_50 9th July 2025 13:23

The Israelis need to run another raid to see how well that system works. :p

ORAC 10th July 2025 21:09

BREAKING: Iranian media reports that Iran’s Army Chief of Staff, General Abdulrahim Mousavi, has been assassinated in Tehran—less than a month after his appointment on June 13.

An explosion rocked a high-rise apartment building near Chitgar Lake directly to the west of the Iranian capital of Tehran earlier today, destroying an apartment in Judiciary Tower, a housing complex reportedly linked to the Iranian Armed Forces.

Media outlets in Iran have since attributed the explosion to a “gas leak” in the building, with rumors circulating that Maj. Gen. Abdolrahim Mousavi, who had been serving as Chief of General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Islamic Republic of Iran since the elimination of Maj. Gen. Mohammad Bagheri on June 13, was killed in the explosion, though this has yet to be confirmed by officials in Iran.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....81ce347a6.jpeg
​​​​​​​

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....b911bbf96.jpeg
​​​​​​​

Lonewolf_50 30th July 2025 17:53

Are the hard liners going to regain some of the support that they have lost over the years, as a result of the raids?
The Analysis in the spoilered article says "probably" but it may be too early to tell.
Spoiler
 


artee 30th July 2025 21:30


Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 (Post 11930870)
Are the hard liners going to regain some of the support that they have lost over the years, as a result of the raids?
The Analysis in the spoilered article says "probably" but it may be too early to tell.
Spoiler
 


The law of unintended consequences at work? I think that the West supporting Iraq in the Iran/Iraq war was a strategic and moral mistake.

Lonewolf_50 31st July 2025 13:49

artee: in politics, the result is never final
(That's a variation on Clausewitz's "In War, the outcome is never final.")

Iran's Foreign Minister Abbas Araghchi said the country still has the experts, technology and equipment to restart uranium enrichment despite damage to its facilities.

He confirmed in an interview with the Financial Times newspaper that Tehran had been preparing to activate a site near Isfahan when it was hit in U.S. strikes toward the end of the 12-day war with Israel.
This might be interpreted as "up yours, you can't keep us down!"
or "kick me / bomb me"
depending on where you sit.

SWBKCB 31st July 2025 15:01


Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 (Post 11930870)
Are the hard liners going to regain some of the support that they have lost over the years, as a result of the raids?
The Analysis in the spoilered article says "probably" but it may be too early to tell.



Hardly a surprise, surely?

Lonewolf_50 31st July 2025 16:02

Another side effect of the raids, it appears, is a stepped up rate of deporting Afghan refugees living in Iran.


Iran’s Mass Deportations Are Fueling Regional Instability


By Jagoda Grondecka, an independent journalist specializing in Middle Eastern and Central Asian affairs, with a focus on conflict and human rights.
July 31, 2025, 11:44 AM
The full article, from FP magazine, is in the spoiler. Here are a couple of tidbits.

“I’m afraid they’ll arrest me as a spy. I can’t leave the house,” he told Foreign Policy at the time. Abdullatif was referring to the common claim that Afghans collaborate with the Mossad, Israel’s intelligence agency. In the 12 days following Israel’s large-scale attack on Iranian nuclear and military facilities on June 13, more than 700 people were extracted from Afghans among them, creating fertile ground to accelerate what has become one of the biggest mass deportation campaigns in modern history.

The estimated number of refugees currently residing in Iran ranges from around 4 million to 6 million, according to Iranian officials—the vast majority of them from Afghanistan. On June 24, Abdullatif became one of more than half a million Afghans deported since the war’s start. Many were brutally taken—seized by security forces at home, sometimes while asleep, at workplaces, or at mosques, with families torn apart in the process.
Spoiler
 

Asturias56 1st August 2025 08:34

Always useful to have a few refugees you can blame when things go badly.............

Lonewolf_50 1st August 2025 19:18

As reported in Newsweek

The United States has sharply rejected Iran's call for financial compensation following recent American strikes on Iranian nuclear facilities, calling the request "ridiculous" and urging Tehran to end its destabilizing activities if it hopes for economic relief or sanctions relief.

Iranian Foreign Minister Abbas Araghchi told the Financial Times that Washington must accept responsibility for the attacks and provide financial redress before nuclear negotiations could resume. U.S. State Department Principal Deputy Spokesperson Tommy Pigott dismissed that position in a press briefing, saying the U.S. remained open to diplomacy but insisted the burden of progress now lay with Iran.
While I suppose that it never hurts to ask, this landed in my "ya gotta be kiddin' me" basket.

GlobalNav 2nd August 2025 17:14


Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 (Post 11932033)
As reported in Newsweek
While I suppose that it never hurts to ask, this landed in my "ya gotta be kiddin' me" basket.

Well, Iran forced us to spend goodness knows how many tax dollars to "hammer" them so we should insist they reimburse our treasury!


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