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-   -   Is Ukraine about to have a war? (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/639666-ukraine-about-have-war.html)

effortless 16th Oct 2022 10:29


Originally Posted by Timmy Tomkins (Post 11314177)
Adolf Hitler's playbook. Didn't help him ether.

A bit different I am afraid. In that case, the aggressor faced overwhelming odds. Including massed attacks on 2 major fronts and carpet bombing. Ukraine is the underdog here.

NutLoose 16th Oct 2022 10:46

Request to go dark over Kherson.


rattman 16th Oct 2022 10:52


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11314173)
"An intelligence assessment shared in recent days with Ukrainian and U.S. officials contends that Iran’s armaments industry is preparing a first shipment of Fateh-110 and Zolfaghar missiles, two well-known Iranian short-range ballistic missiles" to Russia.

dunno what significance the "Israel's Minister of Diaspora Affairs" has in the grand scheme of things but he said

This morning it was reported that Iran is transferring ballistic missiles to Russia. The sufficiency of where Israel should stand in this bloody conflict will end. There is no room for self-righteousness anymore. The time has come for Ukraine to receive military aid as the USA and NATO countries do.

fdr 16th Oct 2022 11:10


Originally Posted by rattman (Post 11314222)
dunno what significance the "Israel's Minister of Diaspora Affairs" has in the grand scheme of things but he said

This morning it was reported that Iran is transferring ballistic missiles to Russia. The sufficiency of where Israel should stand in this bloody conflict will end. There is no room for self-righteousness anymore. The time has come for Ukraine to receive military aid as the USA and NATO countries do.

I would suggest that is a watershed moment in Russian-Israeli relationship. Israel has maintained an odd mutually beneficial relationship with Russia, in part due to the diaspora. Family relationships and migration has continued since WW2, even during the Cold War. Migration started back in 1880, and 1908 where Russia was hostile to jews. Given Vlad's racist tendencies, I would expect Israel to be concerned about targeting of jews for conscription by Russia in retaliation to Israeli support on what sounds like moral objections to the actions of Russia. Israel may be a small country, but the ability for Israel to defend it's interests, are well above their weight bracket.

That sounds like good news for Ukraine and a diplomatic wet fish slap from Israel to Vlad. :ok:

NutLoose 16th Oct 2022 11:17

More on Iran to supply ballistic missiles to Russia.


NutLoose 16th Oct 2022 11:34

Egypt urging all citizens to leave Ukraine

Kazakhstan has decided to evacuate all employees from its embassy in Kyiv.

China calls on its citizens to leave Ukraine immediately.

somethings up…



https://twitter.com/visegrad24



ORAC 16th Oct 2022 11:59

“If someone runs back, we will kill them”……

This intercepted call reveals how defensive lines operate for the Russians: first in the line are convicts guarded by mobiks in the second line, who are in turn guarded by regular forces.

ORAC 16th Oct 2022 12:05

Ukrainian telegram channels heating up with reports of lots of Russian hardware in the air, aimed across Ukraine.

UAVs heading to western Ukraine, reports of several MIG31 from Belarus over Ukraine, numerous missiles all over Ukraine. CM heading towards Kyiv. AFU asking to post neither videos nor pictures of air defence.

NutLoose 16th Oct 2022 12:12


Lonewolf_50 16th Oct 2022 13:27

Iran Giving Missiles to Russia
 
Report from the Washington Post, October 16, 2022 at 2:30 a.m. EDT

... according toU.S. and allied security officials, secretly agreeing to send not only attack drones but also what some officials described as the first Iranian-made surface-to-surface missiles intended for use against Ukrainian cities and troop positions.
So they denied shooting down the Ukranian air liner (they eventually came clean) and now they deny supplying drones for use against Ukraine.

While Iranian weapons designers have struggled with reliability problems, the newest versions of the Fateh-110 and Zolfaghar are considered by experts to be both potent and reasonably accurate at relatively short distances, Nadimi said. Some models come with electrooptic guidance systems that allow missile operators to guide them in their final approach to the target. Iran previously provided the same missiles to proxy militia groups in the Middle East, most notably Houthi fighters in Yemen...{who} used them in attacks against oil refineries and other civilian targets in neighboring Gulf countries.
Field testing at its finest. :p

Independent news outlets in recent days published photos of the remains of what appear to be Iranian-made drones used in strikes against Ukrainian targets, calling into question Iran’s repeated denials that it has supplied such weapons to its ally Russia. Pentagon officials also publicly confirmed the use of Iranian drones in Russian airstrikes, as well as Ukraine’s success in shooting some of the drones down.
Iran and Iraq traded hundreds of Theater Ballistic Missiles against each other back in the 1980's. Iran seems to have made home grown ones. They know what they are doing, so I wonder what Ukraine did to piss them off? Make them look bad about that air liner shoot down?

...Tehran dispatched officials to Russia on Sept. 18 to finalize terms for additional weapons shipments, including two types of Iranian surface-to-surface missiles, according to officials from a U.S.-allied country that closely monitors Iran’s weapons activity.
I wonder who that could be? ;)

Fateh-110 and Zolfaghar missiles ... capable of striking targets at distances of 300 and 700 kilometers...it would be the first delivery of such missiles to Russia since the start of the war.
So what is Russia paying to Iran, or providing to them, in return for this non-trivial shipment of modern weapons?

I am not sure what the TBMD posture of Ukraine is, but I doubt that it is very robust.
Some decades ago, the USAF was going a bit nuts about 'boost phase intercept' (large airliner sized aircraft zapping missiles with lasers as they took off) as the approach to defending against North Korean ballistic missiles of a similar class to the ones being provided by Iran. (I was very skeptical of that program, at the time). Have heard little to nothing about it since.
I wonder if it's been kept under wraps, or, if my skepticism was well founded.
That would be a very handy capability to employ at a time like this, if it works.
It may be like nuclear fusion as an energy source: "we are about 15 years away from solving this" as a decades long state of play. :p

The reports of a serious new front opening up from Belarus is disturbing: some months ago I asked "what if we are already in WW III and just don't know it yet?" The 'evacuate the embassy, all citizens leave Ukraine" signals from various countries doesn't make me feel any better.

Wokkafans 16th Oct 2022 15:08

Aviation content:

"Ukrainian pilot on his mission. Two rockets at 1:18 and flew home above the road"

The music will not appeal to all.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhpg...ый

uxb99 16th Oct 2022 15:18


Originally Posted by Wokkafans (Post 11314325)
Aviation content:

"Ukrainian pilot on his mission. Two rockets at 1:18 and flew home above the road"

The music will not appeal to all.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhpg...ый

So is he targeting something or is this just a fire and forget mission?

ORAC 16th Oct 2022 16:39

HARM? Could be being fired in Pre-Briefed mode. Just reach the programmed launch point and pull the trigger.

The HARM has four basic operating modes. The Pre-Brief, Pre-Emptive or Position-Known (PB/PE/POS) mode is a Lock On After Launch (LOAL) mode, and is used for standoff maximum range attacks on emitters of a known type and location, within several degrees of the missile boresight. This is the basic mode used by dedicated defence suppression (SEAD) aircraft such as the F-4G and Tornado ECR, or F-16CJ/HTS.

In PB/PE/POS mode, as used by the Tornado ECR or F-4G, the aircraft's Emitter Locating System (ELS) determines the identity and position of the target, which are downloaded to the missile. The launch aircraft will then toss the missile to impart the best possible range. The missile flies on inertial guidance until it acquires the target, and then homes to impact. The PB/PE/POS mode is essentially offensive and most commonly used when taking down an IADS.”

ORAC 16th Oct 2022 16:59

Russian channel Older than Edda: Reports of the transfer of "Daggers" (KH-47M2 Kinzhal missiles) to Belarus…


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....ed134ce62.jpeg


NutLoose 16th Oct 2022 17:55

It could of course all be it a counter bluff to divert attention away from the Donbas or Kherson region.

ORAC 16th Oct 2022 18:41

BREAKING: Employees at the Belarusian Ministry of Emergency Situations have received weapons from the MoD with the task of "maintaining order and protecting the country in the event of mass riots or armed conflict.", head of the Ministry of Emergency Situations - Readovka

ORAC 16th Oct 2022 18:44

It is increasingly likely that a joint contingent of Russian/Belarusian forces are preparing some sort of offensive operation along the border with northern Ukraine.

Note the new tactical markings on a large majority of these vehicles.

langleybaston 16th Oct 2022 18:48


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11314414)
BREAKING: Employees at the Belarusian Ministry of Emergency Situations have received weapons from the MoD with the task of "maintaining order and protecting the country in the event of mass riots or armed conflict.", head of the Ministry of Emergency Situations - Readovka

Unless we are very ill-informed this is either sabre rattling, or another precursor to a second front. If the latter, will the Bela's fight, can they tolerate an early severe bashing?

Tartiflette Fan 16th Oct 2022 18:55


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11314416)
It is increasingly likely that a joint contingent of Russian/Belarusian forces are preparing some sort of offensive operation along the border with northern Ukraine.

Note the new tactical markings on a large majority of these vehicles.

Whilst I can see that in his current mood, Putin would have no compunction about throwing Belarussian units into a futile fight to relieve pressure - both military and media - on other operations, I find it enormously hard to believe that Lukachenko would go along with this unless his arm were twisted so far up his back, it threatened to tear off. From everything I have read, any involvement would seem certain to lead to his downfall.

dead_pan 16th Oct 2022 19:07

If the Russians & Belarussians do decide to mount some form of offensive from the north, what will (can?) they do differently this time around? Its still the same forested terrain, they've proven themselves to be incapable of combined arms manoeuvre warfare, their air force is ineffective, and the Ukes are way better prepared, trained and equipped than they were the last time. This would be a desperate act.


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