PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Military Aviation (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation-57/)
-   -   Is Ukraine about to have a war? (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/639666-ukraine-about-have-war.html)

WB627 26th Aug 2022 21:47


Great! Please then tell us what the answer is if they can:

a) No longer initiate new programmes
b) no longer negotiate any programmes
I went to a project management software user group meeting in the mid 80's. There were a number of industries represented there including defence. I got talking to a chap from BAE and I could not believe how far they were behind the construction industry in using computers for project management, or even critical path analysis, despite the fact that the American defence industry had developed CPA to keep the Polaris submarine project on track in the 60's

Then someone invented PRINCE (PRojects IN Controlled Environments) or how to get so far behind programme, your end project will be obsolete/redundant before it is finished. Oh how I laughed :ugh:. Then they came up with PRINCE 2 and the laughter did not stop. The Government saw this as the answer to all there problems of time and budget and made their contractors use it.

On time, on budget, :} :} :} :} never ever, except once AFAI. The only project I ever did that had PRICE in the contract was a district general hospital reconfiguration, £30m and 18 months to do it :eek: . I was the Planning Manger on it and the Project Manager was one of the best I ever worked with. We realised very early on that if we followed the PRICE rules, it was going to take five years to get it done, so we ignored ALL the rules of PRINCE, taking the ££££ risks of doing so ourselves. We delivered the project on time and under budget, it was unheard of to do this on a project of this size and complexity for the NHS.

The answer is employ competent project mangers, let them get on with delivering what they were tasked to deliver and do not tie their hands behind their backs.

PRINCE 2, please, don't make me laugh any more, I can't take it.

Video Mixdown 26th Aug 2022 21:50


Originally Posted by meleagertoo (Post 11285820)
You two evidently have far more active and febrile imaginations than I.
I have watched and rewatched that video three times now to see if I was mistaken, or to see if I can identify what you describe. No, I wasn't, an no I cannot. I'm nor saying what is depicted isn't as you describe, just that on watchng it three times at normal speed there is no way it could be identified as that.
What really bothers me is how you managed to do so...frame by frame examination?
Yukk.
Don't call me weird! You of all people!

I don't understand what you're complaining about. Nobody is forcing you to be here if you don't like it.

Tartiflette Fan 26th Aug 2022 21:53


Originally Posted by meleagertoo (Post 11285820)
Y
Don't call me weird! You of all people!

I equally saw nothing but debris strewn across the bridge. Absolutely nothing that looked human.

WB627 26th Aug 2022 22:11


Originally Posted by Tartiflette Fan (Post 11285829)
I equally saw nothing but debris strewn across the bridge. Absolutely nothing that looked human.

You should have gone to Specsavers

FlightDetent 26th Aug 2022 23:04


Originally Posted by WB627 (Post 11285811)
Yikes :eek: you are not joking. BTW, your Twitter links are not showing up, up like mine :ooh:

The links are suppressed by the site fronted because a fullsize preview graphics panel is shown. Embedded in the post like the YouTube videos.

If that preview panel does not load (ISP restrictions, VPNs or not VPNs), a perfectly blank space is what you get.

Thrust Augmentation 26th Aug 2022 23:17


Originally Posted by WB627 (Post 11285842)
You should have gone to Specsavers

I'll agree with that, it was all perfectly clear on my 1st watch. Everything is of a similar colour, but still it's quite obvious.

FlightDetent 26th Aug 2022 23:22


Originally Posted by WB627 (Post 11285811)
Yikes :eek: you are not joking. BTW, your Twitter links are not showing up, up like mine :ooh:

The links are suppressed by the site fronted because a fullsize preview graphics panel is shown. Embedded in the post like the YouTube videos.

If that preview panel does not load (ISP restrictions, VPNs or not VPNs), a perfectly blank space is what you get.


rattman 26th Aug 2022 23:34


Originally Posted by Thrust Augmentation (Post 11285868)
I'll agree with that, it was all perfectly clear on my 1st watch. Everything is of a similar colour, but still it's quite obvious.

Agree or its a different video, first 10 seconds (all i watched) there was a torso with nothing attached to it and blood stains on the a barrier behind it

NutLoose 26th Aug 2022 23:36

6 seconds in, part of body against wall, possibly arm, 22 seconds legless corpse. 34 seconds another burnt body. Total film length 40 seconds, happy now seeing corpses?

Geez, I do not believe I actually posted the above information. Hence why I never posted the link direct, those that want to see it will find it, I watched it just expecting to see the bridge damage, but having watched it realised what it contained hence not posting a direct link, reporting the bridge damage but warning others about the remains.

​​​​​​…

NutLoose 27th Aug 2022 00:13

More satellite views of the main Kherson bridge and the damage so far.

This image is from today, the lower one the 21st


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....696e173aa.jpeg


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....237a6a582.jpeg

NutLoose 27th Aug 2022 00:16

The pontoon bridge
https://twitter.com/ArtisanalAPT

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....203db68c1.jpeg

GlobalNav 27th Aug 2022 03:01


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11285816)
Well, it starts by swinging to an arm and part of a torso on the right, then moves on to the top half of a body on the right, then scans across to another torso along with bits everywhere on the left.

You have to remember, while most of us are adults on here, that does not necessarily mean everyone is, hence my reservation at posting it.

I told you where the link was and I posted a link in 8499, it was up to you to look for it.

.

You can’t make this bum happy. Thank you for showing intelligence and sensitivity. It reminds us that this is not a mere athletic competition.

rattman 27th Aug 2022 03:04


Originally Posted by GlobalNav (Post 11285923)
You can’t make this bum happy. Thank you for showing intelligence and sensitivity. It reminds us that this is not a mere athletic competition.

Not sure why the other are disappointed that there was no death porn linked. Theres plenty of telegram channels that have it if thats what they wanted

beardy 27th Aug 2022 06:34


Originally Posted by FlightDetent (Post 11285872)
The links are suppressed by the site fronted because a fullsize preview graphics panel is shown. Embedded in the post like the YouTube videos.

If that preview panel does not load (ISP restrictions, VPNs or not VPNs), a perfectly blank space is what you get.

The links used to show up for me, now they don't and I haven't changed any settings. They do show up if I copy and paste the whole post text.

uxb99 27th Aug 2022 07:45


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11285892)
More satellite views of the main Kherson bridge and the damage so far.

https://twitter.com/ArtisanalAPT/sta...67758061948930
This image is from today, the lower one the 21st


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....696e173aa.jpeg


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....237a6a582.jpeg

Does show the accuracy of modern weapons. I fear the next war will be focused on space. Knock out the GPS satellite systems.

uxb99 27th Aug 2022 07:46

So the next war will be drone, 3D printed, space and nuclear power station focused?

Ninthace 27th Aug 2022 08:51


Originally Posted by beardy (Post 11285950)
The links used to show up for me, now they don't and I haven't changed any settings. They do show up if I copy and paste the whole post text.

The links show if you use Safari or the CCleaner browsers.

Fitter2 27th Aug 2022 08:58


So the next war will be drone, 3D printed, space and nuclear power station focused?
The next war (as always) will be he one that was not armed, planned or trained for.

If we are unlucky, the one after that will be fought with clubs and spears.

NutLoose 27th Aug 2022 09:46

Ukraine helicopter low level, looks like under wires too


NutLoose 27th Aug 2022 09:52

Is this a build up or just reporting what is known?


FUMR 27th Aug 2022 10:38

Is Putrid about to throw his last dice?

NutLoose 27th Aug 2022 11:41

More on the threat.

https://twitter.com/search?q=Russia%20helicopter&src=typed_query&f=live

https://endtimeheadlines.org/2022/08/russia-masses-more-than-400-planes-and-360-helicopters-on-border-with-ukraine/

ORAC 27th Aug 2022 11:57

“China calls on Putin to end Russian roulette at Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant in Ukraine after disaster near-miss. When China is speaking up, you know it’s serious.”…
https://apple.news/AOXQg4sceQgWu4jnmiiv-EQ

Fitter2 27th Aug 2022 12:30


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitter2 View Post
The MOD is utterly incompetent at (a) negotiating a contract and (b) managing a project development. From the other side of the fence, they are an almost bottomless money pit, but it makes at least some ex-RAF people in industry have guilty feelings for those serving, and for taxpayers.

Posted by Tartiflette Fan
Great! Please then tell us what the answer is if they can:

a) No longer initiate new programmes
b) no longer negotiate any programmes
Expatriate the whole she-bang to ..............................whom ?
1. Better contract negotiation by reversing the trend of industry stealing from the forces; poach contract negotiators who are versed in the ways of inserting the keys to the money pit when writing a contract.
2 Use the end users advice better when writing the specification, rather than having it hacked down to save money by the Treasury civil servant accountants.
3. Buy the best match to the spec, rather than politicise the buying decision.
4. Ruthless holding the manufacturer to fulfilling the contract and meeting the spec

The cost would be far lower than the billions wasted later.

That might be a start. Sorry for thread drift, but seeing the trickery and disregard for responsibility to the taxpayer on the one hand, and when looking back at doing the job with the tools at our disposal makes me a bit cross.

fdr 27th Aug 2022 14:24


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11286106)
“China calls on Putin to end Russian roulette at Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant in Ukraine after disaster near-miss. When China is speaking up, you know it’s serious.”…
https://apple.news/AOXQg4sceQgWu4jnmiiv-EQ

China is downwind...

Beamr 27th Aug 2022 17:37

Ukraine MOD came out with a wish list of FJ's.
To play around with the idea the Gripen would be an interesting option for Ukraine: did well in latest tenders being the runner up (Finland, Canada), easy to maintain (advertised to require just two conscripts to turn around on a highway base) and already NATO compatible. Just a small hickup is the very low number made, who'd send their AC's on a short notice? Czech needs their to cover Slovakia due to Slovakia sending their mig29's to Ukraine. Hungary has only 12+2. South Africa has 17. So unless Czech gets their F35's very fast and Sweden sends their fleet it's a no go.


MPN11 27th Aug 2022 17:59


Originally Posted by Beamr (Post 11286190)
Ukraine MOD came out with a wish list of FJ's.
.

The end product of peacetime, pared down, forces. Will we all ever learn that Defence is not an option, but essential, and has to be properly and fully resourced against all possible adverse scenarios? Meanwhile, in the Treasury ...

uxb99 27th Aug 2022 18:13


Originally Posted by MPN11 (Post 11286196)
The end product of peacetime, pared down, forces. Will we all ever learn that Defence is not an option, but essential, and has to be properly and fully resourced against all possible adverse scenarios? Meanwhile, in the Treasury ...

I've not heard of any countries upping production? Would it not be prudent to get some orders in now for more stuff. We must have exhausted quite a lot already.

NutLoose 27th Aug 2022 18:56


Originally Posted by uxb99 (Post 11285972)
Does show the accuracy of modern weapons. I fear the next war will be focused on space. Knock out the GPS satellite systems.

It’s why the US is looking at celestial navigation as stars can’t be hacked or destroyed.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...al-navigation/

https://www.gps.gov/governance/advis...8-12/laine.pdf

Knocking out GPS satellites however would effect both sides.

Big Pistons Forever 27th Aug 2022 19:22


Originally Posted by MPN11 (Post 11286196)
The end product of peacetime, pared down, forces. Will we all ever learn that Defence is not an option, but essential, and has to be properly and fully resourced against all possible adverse scenarios?

Nope, we will never learn, because the kind of long term vision needed to invest in maintaining a viable military requires politicians who actually care enough to risk personal political capital to do the right thing…..

GlobalNav 27th Aug 2022 19:53


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11286222)
It’s why the US is looking at celestial navigation as stars can’t be hacked or destroyed.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...al-navigation/

https://www.gps.gov/governance/advis...8-12/laine.pdf

Knocking out GPS satellites however would effect both sides.

Is this idea applicable only to aircraft or would the technology be integrated with warheads?

I note in the Draper slides that only lines of position from two different celestial bodies are required to determine position. But unless the relative azimuths are ideal (90 degrees) and error sources are zero or ignored, it’s been a better practice to have at least three LOPs from bodies roughly 120 degrees azimuth apart, in order to triangulate and minimize contributions of systematic error.

I don’t know the technology, but I suppose they have a way of observing stars even in daytime.

rattman 27th Aug 2022 19:56


Originally Posted by Beamr (Post 11286190)
Ukraine MOD came out with a wish list of FJ's.
To play around with the idea the Gripen would be an interesting option for Ukraine: did well in latest tenders being the runner up (Finland, Canada), easy to maintain (advertised to require just two conscripts to turn around on a highway base) and already NATO compatible. Just a small hickup is the very low number made, who'd send their AC's on a short notice? Czech needs their to cover Slovakia due to Slovakia sending their mig29's to Ukraine. Hungary has only 12+2. South Africa has 17. So unless Czech gets their F35's very fast and Sweden sends their fleet it's a no go.

South africa cant even afford to maintain their gripens. UK is looking to dispose of thier tranche 1 block 5 eurofighters. These dont have any air to ground capability except paveways, still great for actual airdefence so might be considered a non step to far

ORAC 27th Aug 2022 20:23

Satellite imagery confirms three MiG-31K/I (Kinzhal missile-equipped) have been deployed to the Kaliningrad Chkalovsk Air Base.


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....ce9fe10ed.jpeg

NutLoose 27th Aug 2022 20:48


Originally Posted by GlobalNav (Post 11286247)
Is this idea applicable only to aircraft or would the technology be integrated with warheads?

I note in the Draper slides that only lines of position from two different celestial bodies are required to determine position. But unless the relative azimuths are ideal (90 degrees) and error sources are zero or ignored, it’s been a better practice to have at least three LOPs from bodies roughly 120 degrees azimuth apart, in order to triangulate and minimize contributions of systematic error.

I don’t know the technology, but I suppose they have a way of observing stars even in daytime.

I read somewhere they could see through clouds and in daylight… IR? With everything I imagine it will work down to weapons.

ROC man 27th Aug 2022 20:52


Originally Posted by GlobalNav (Post 11286247)
Is this idea applicable only to aircraft or would the technology be integrated with warheads?

I note in the Draper slides that only lines of position from two different celestial bodies are required to determine position. But unless the relative azimuths are ideal (90 degrees) and error sources are zero or ignored, it’s been a better practice to have at least three LOPs from bodies roughly 120 degrees azimuth apart, in order to triangulate and minimize contributions of systematic error.

I don’t know the technology, but I suppose they have a way of observing stars even in daytime.

The SR-71 had astro inertial navigation so this doesnt sound like anything new (R2D2). I guess they hope miniturise and improve accuracy for weapon purposes

MAINJAFAD 27th Aug 2022 21:15


Originally Posted by GlobalNav (Post 11286247)
Is this idea applicable only to aircraft or would the technology be integrated with warheads?

I note in the Draper slides that only lines of position from two different celestial bodies are required to determine position. But unless the relative azimuths are ideal (90 degrees) and error sources are zero or ignored, it’s been a better practice to have at least three LOPs from bodies roughly 120 degrees azimuth apart, in order to triangulate and minimize contributions of systematic error.

I don’t know the technology, but I suppose they have a way of observing stars even in daytime.

Auto astro tracking navigation systems have been used on weapons systems since the late 1950's. SM-62 Snark cruise missile for sure, Skybolt was going to use it and I'm pretty sure that Trident D5 uses it as well.

NutLoose 27th Aug 2022 21:40

Sweet


fdr 28th Aug 2022 00:54


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11286274)
I read somewhere they could see through clouds and in daylight… IR? With everything I imagine it will work down to weapons.

At various wavelengths there is negligible attenuation of a signal from CO2, H2O etc.... Another benefit of a celestial auto-tracker is that apart from position to high accuracy. it could give a complete stable platform output, 3D attitude without any gyros, 3D velocity vectors, and absolute position without interference and with tolerance to jamming.

Separately, the Russian's seem to be only interested in their domestic consumers of propaganda now, or they are heading towards a national bi-polar personality disorder... the dissonance with reality is painful to watch.



I would recommend an extended course of Haldol or similar for the occupants of the Kremlin to assist their return to reality.

Side effects may include
  • Weight gain;
  • Sexual problems;
  • Drowsiness;
  • Dizzyness;
  • Restlessness;
  • Dry mouth;
  • Constipation;
  • Nausea;
  • Blurred vision;
  • Low blood pressure;
  • Seizures;
  • low WBC
Don't mix antipsychotics with Vodka.

ORAC 28th Aug 2022 06:31

In the past few months, we and other analyst have watched the formation and training of Russia's 3rd Army Corps, first publicly reported by Ukrainian intelligence back in June. Now it is being deployed to the Ukrainian border.

Photo and video evidence shows trains with a Buk air defense system and T-80BV and T-90M tanks. Per Russian Railways database, they are heading deployed from Mulino, 3rd AC's training base, to the Ukrainian border close to Taganrog, Rostov region…..

It is currently unknown where the 3rd AC will deploy, but the frontlines closest to the destination of the trains (Neklinovka station in southern Rostov region) are Donetsk and Zaporizhia region.….


ORAC 28th Aug 2022 06:36

A significant reduction took place with elements of the Northern Fleet leaving the Mediterranean following a deployment that started on Feb-11.


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....ebe64fa7f.jpeg


All times are GMT. The time now is 23:29.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.