or double the defensive stuff... :E

F15 Strike Eagle renamed F15 Defence Eagle ;)

Much like the 30s

https://dailyhistory.org/Why_did_the..._Union_in_1933

I suspect a lot can be explained by the Russian mindset which is profoundly coloured by its past experiences, not least in WW2 when the Nazis reached the gates of Moscow. I understand those memories run very deep indeed. I'm not an apologist for Vlad but taking time to understand what drives Russian fears would probably pay considerable dividends, as would some sensitivity to the territorial insecurities that are driven by those past experiences. So - would holding back on Ukrainian membership of NATO, for example, be craven appeasement or sensible realpolitik? I suspect a gesture or two tailored to Russia's historic fears (which could still allow for helping Ukraine to beef up defensively) could pay dividends in terms of de-risking things and lowering tensions. If that's what we want.

When it comes to Russia's neighbours wanting to join NATO, I suspect a lot can be explained by a mindset which is profoundly coloured by past experiences, not least during the 20th century when the Communists reached and occupied the gates of all of their capital cities.

There, fixed it for you.

That's a fair point. And maybe the right approach is indeed unblinking robustness, given the risk that Vlad would see anything less as weakness. But even then it's still worth recognising the various factors that drive the other side, especially when the stakes are so high. Whether that understanding means that leaving the door ajar to a degree of messy face-saving compromise could have a part to play here I'm happy to let better qualified people than me decide.

https://thehill.com/opinion/internat...sion-of-europe

The Ukraine crisis will end inevitably in a redivision of Europe

Sensible policy would be to keep military alliances at arms length, while integrating the economies as much as possible.
That allows for a much more expansive union while minimizing the political provocation.
Promoting the military component before the economic elements are in place is not wise, one risks being a potential partner who is too costly to admit.

https://www.politico.eu/article/nato...iscuss-russia/

NATO calls extraordinary meeting to discuss Russia

You forget that it was Ukraine's move towards the European Union that triggered Putin's interventions in the country. It was in response to Putin's actions that membership of NATO was then touted.

Correct.

Maidan Square. 2014.

Ukraine is a free country and can join whatever it wants.

All countries can do whatever they want - but it's generally wise to consider the effects on other people - especially your neighbours.........

It might be a good idea for Russia to think about this. They will only make everybody want to join NATO. Finally poor Russia can feel threatened over and over again and claim to need to invade everybody else.

I wonder if part of Vlad's concern WRT Ukraine is that the country already offers more to its citizens in terms of living standards, work opportunities, freedoms, future prospects etc, than "Greater Russia" will ever do under his leadership? And that after only six short years of going it alone.

It never rains but it pours...

Russia 'attentively' watching events in Kazakhstan

Why, is baby sitting still required?
It was 20 years late.

@melmothw
beat me to it. :)

Russian press reporting that a “peace keeping” force has been dispatched to Kazakhstan to “stabilise” the situation….

Istr that Victoria Nuland, now Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs, has a track record in those developments, as discussed here:
https://www.salon.com/2021/01/19/who...n-policy-team/
Her policies seem to me to produce massive strategic losses for very doubtful tactical gains.

Imho, Russia should be inside the Western tent, ***ing out, rather than outside ***ing in.
Detaching the Ukraine from Russia at the price of forcing Russia into China's orbit just seems dumb to me.

Covert Spetnaz are already operating in Kiev

Covert Russian Spetnaz units 'already in Ukraine right now' warns former US Navy commander (msn.com)

An opportunity missed in the 90's and 00's, when the thaw was beginning to take hold.
(Partnership for Peace, NATO and Russian troops working together in the Balkans, a desk in Brussels (though obviously not full membership, but a chance for one).
What could have been has been long since overcome by events.

Yes, Russia is a bully. So is China, USA, Germany, France, UK.
USSR/Russia have invaded independent countries. So did the others.
Russia is willing to attack and did attack weak opponents. So did the others.
Calling Russia's demands about removing weapons close to it's borders unreasonable is a joke if you consider hissy fit USA threw when USSR tried to install missiles on Cuba.
Why USA's demands were reasonable and Russia's aren't?

You are missing the point. US never said any country "hey you can't join the Warsow pact" nor ODKB. Russia is now telling its neighboring sovereign countries that they can't join NATO if they want to. Russia is trying to talk to US about european countries without talking to the european countries themselves. What an arrogant a****** Putin is! Who treats their neighbors like that?
This is all just Putin wishing to create a world power and leave his name in history.And just like with the USSR all the neighbors are going to suffer.

You mean USA is not saying Germany that it can't buy Russian gas?
Throwing sanctions out against any company that was connected with NS2?
Yes, Putin/Russia is a bully. So are many others, but somehow that is not triggering a lot of you

The US hasn’t said hey would you like to join our little group, and we will lavish your money on your country building a wall to keep your population in, killing any that decide they do not like our little group.

the germans are doing that themselves.
you really think that any of Russias neighboring countries are happy with how Russia is currently trying to create its sphere of influence with the exception of Belarus since only thing keeping up the dictatorship there is Russia?
There is no reason for Putin to bully eg Finland, or do you think so?

https://www.defensenews.com/global/e...ks-on-ukraine/

Blinken warns Russia ahead of talks on Ukraine

I never said countries close to Russia have nothing to fear. What I am saying is that Russia is not the only one doing this, but it is only China, Russia and NK being called names here.

This thread is about Ukraine and how Russia is threatening Ukraine and its sovereignty. Therefore calling Russia by name is pretty evident.
reg cuban crisis: US has never placed nukes to Ukraine so it is not very good comparison to Cuban crisis. Actually, the US has quaranteed Ukraines sovereignty if it gives nukes away. Russia did too, but now Russia has conveniently forgotten it and invaded crimea and threatens to invade rest of Ukraine, too.
On top of it Russia is now threatening the rest of its bordering countries too and Putin has said he is ready to re-arm Belarus with nukes.

Dealing with Russia is like lion taming. Show fear and you are dead meat, roar back just as loud and he will back down.

I would suggest this is not the time for a Chamberlin moment....

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...f-talks-begins

US tells Putin to choose confrontation or dialogue over Ukraine


https://www.politico.eu/article/stol...ia-talks-fail/

Stoltenberg: NATO will be ready if Russia talks fail

Talks about to begin…..


https://www.politico.eu/article/us-e...ukraine-talks/

With Russian guns pointed at Ukraine, West and Moscow dive into talks

What’s on the table — and what’s not

Putin will not discuss his invasion and annexation of Crimea in 2014, which the West still views as a violation of international law that must be reversed. Putin also has never admitted, and won’t concede now, that active-duty Russian military personnel are operating in the Donbass region of eastern Ukraine, despite ample evidence to the contrary, including a recent Russian court ruling that discussed contracts for supplying food to Russian forces.

The U.S. and its NATO allies, meanwhile, have already said they will not accede to Russia’s demands that the U.S. remove troops and weapons from Eastern European countries that joined the alliance after 1997. They have already rejected a demand for the removal of all U.S. nuclear weapons stationed in Europe, and also flatly ruled out Moscow’s demand for a guarantee that Ukraine and Georgia will never join NATO……

But even as the Russian delegation, led by Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov, arrived in Geneva on Sunday afternoon for the first informal meeting — a bilateral discussion with the U.S. — there were signs Moscow was unimpressed by the comments from Washington and not optimistic about the prospect of any deal.

“We are not going there with an outstretched hand, we are going with a clearly formulated task that must be solved on the terms that we have formulated. That’s all,” Ryabkov told the Russian news agency RIA Novosti.

“If we walk in circles and repeat the same thing, if we do not see the slightest signs of readiness from the other side to take into account our priorities, to react to them in a constructive way, then the dialogue will become pointless,” Ryabkov said.

In Geneva, the U.S. delegation will be led by Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman, one of Washington’s most seasoned diplomats and a familiar figure in Moscow. Sherman was the chief negotiator of the Iran nuclear deal under former President Barack Obama, and under former President Bill Clinton, she was the policy coordinator for North Korea and led negotiations with Pyongyang over its nuclear program.

Overall, Russia’s recent litany of requests, put forward last month as a draft “treaty,” would fundamentally rewrite the security architecture of modern Europe. And the far-reaching nature of the document — Kremlin critics would say vastly over-reaching — reflect just how little Putin has to lose in the current round of discussions.

Virtually any concession Putin might be granted would amount to something for nothing for the Russian leader, who has been in power since the end of 1999, and recently oversaw a rewriting of his country’s constitution to allow him to stay in office until 2036……

Well, according to Sky, good news and bad news from today’s talks.

Bad, news, no real progress on defusing things. Good news, both the US and Russia agreed a nuclear war would be a bad thing and neither side would use them in a conflict.

Sounds like they were agreeing on rules of engagement...

This the moment when the US and Europe can't blink. If they do Putin wins and then sets his sights on the Baltic republics, then Poland etc etc.. His end game is to recreate the Warsaw pac

A relatively cheap way to dilute the sanctions. Make the West think you’re preparing for a fight and negotiate a backdown. Hasn’t he played this hand before?🤔