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-   -   RAF Valley: Unauthorised landing and take-off (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/632840-raf-valley-unauthorised-landing-take-off.html)

unclenelli 29th May 2020 12:30

Something similar happened at Finningley on 29th Sep 1995 (albeit not as illegal as this!)
At 1655, OC Ops and Stn Cdr were having some friendly argy-bargy about who would be last to use the runway to depart to CWL as Finningley Closed for good (until Robin Hood Intl)
I can't remember who won, one NOTAM said the airfield closed (MATZ/ATZ) at 1700-PERM, but another said the Navaids (inc ILS) would be switched off at 2359-PERM.

So from 1701, several aircraft from Sandtoft (9nm North) all started to shoot the ILS on Rwy 20!! (Some overshot, some rolled (1995 phraseology))

homonculus 29th May 2020 12:32


The Pilot stated that he had located the airfield on Google Earth and noted from Wikipedia that Anglesey Airport served civilian traffic
So a pilot who may well be a US citizen with limited flying experience in the UK makes a mistake - looking at the website I do not think his claim is incredible. Can someone explain to a humble civilian why this is so serious? He made a mistake which should have led to him being informed of his error. Searches, police, book throwing.....it sounds just like the actions we hear of when British pilots fly into airfields in the old soviet block, India etc etc.

Yes he broke Welsh Coronavirus Regulations but not English ones so please leave that to one side. Are we arguing his landing justified reopening Tyburn or his refusal to stay overnight?

Yes an honest question, but I will put my helmet on in case :rolleyes:

Catwalk Dweller 29th May 2020 12:50

Originally posted by GeeRam:

"Looking at his flight track on FR24 back to Fairoaks, he took an interesting route back once departed Valley.....including an interesting 180 deg turn over Caernarfon town.......and then another 180 over the sea to track back over North Wales."

He was probably making those turns in order to check out his eyesight . . .

OmegaV6 29th May 2020 13:11

Now on the BBC ...... only 4 days after the event ....

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-52849560

Blue_Circle 29th May 2020 13:12


Originally Posted by homonculus (Post 10796657)
So a pilot who may well be a US citizen with limited flying experience in the UK makes a mistake - looking at the website I do not think his claim is incredible. Can someone explain to a humble civilian why this is so serious? He made a mistake which should have led to him being informed of his error. Searches, police, book throwing.....it sounds just like the actions we hear of when British pilots fly into airfields in the old soviet block, India etc etc.

Yes he broke Welsh Coronavirus Regulations but not English ones so please leave that to one side. Are we arguing his landing justified reopening Tyburn or his refusal to stay overnight?

Yes an honest question, but I will put my helmet on in case :rolleyes:

Tyburn might be a bit extreme, but should someone who bases their flight panning on google and Wikipedia really be at the controls of an aircraft?

treadigraph 29th May 2020 13:15

Probably uses Google Maps for navigation...

champair79 29th May 2020 13:22

Regardless of what Wikipedia says, that’s not an official source.

Presumably he has done Air Law (US or UK, it doesn’t really matter). One should always reference the country’s AIP. Of course in the UK, most pilots rely on a delegated source like Pooleys, AFE, SkyDemon or even the airfield’s website. The source data is always in the AIP though. Definitely NOT Wikipedia!

champ

l.garey 29th May 2020 13:29

It sounds a bit like the opening few minutes of the film High Flight
, when an Auster lands at Cranwell.

Laurence

just another jocky 29th May 2020 13:48


Originally Posted by homonculus (Post 10796657)
So a pilot who may well be a US citizen with limited flying experience in the UK makes a mistake - looking at the website I do not think his claim is incredible. Can someone explain to a humble civilian why this is so serious? He made a mistake which should have led to him being informed of his error. Searches, police, book throwing.....it sounds just like the actions we hear of when British pilots fly into airfields in the old soviet block, India etc etc.

Yes he broke Welsh Coronavirus Regulations but not English ones so please leave that to one side. Are we arguing his landing justified reopening Tyburn or his refusal to stay overnight?

Yes an honest question, but I will put my helmet on in case :rolleyes:

Does the military airfield being closed at the time and WIP on the landing runway not count against the pilot as well?

sycamore 29th May 2020 14:05

Do Fire crews have Airfield frequency radios,and what was the Atis at the time....?
I would hope that all personnel involved in this incident were suitably protected,and have since been tested,as it should not be taken at `face` value that` I`ve had the virus a couple of months ago,I`m ok`...he could still be a `carrier`....likewise ,his aircraft could be contaminated.

ShyTorque 29th May 2020 14:20

Some years ago I flew from one of the few totally grass RAF airfields, which was temporarily closed and ATC unmanned. A light aircraft appeared overhead, let down and landed, then taxied in and shut down. The pilot then tried to get into the locked ATC tower. OC Flying (wearing RAF uniform) walked out to talk to him. On being asked why he had landed at an RAF airfield without clearance, he said he was on his qualifying solo cross country flight. When asked where he thought he was, he gave the name of another airfield. OC Flying pointed out the ten foot high white lettering on the adjacent hangar which said "RAF *******". The pilot disagreed, as far as he was concerned this couldn't be an RAF airfield! He was asked what type of surface he expected to land on and he said tarmac. He never noticed it was all grass here.

He also demanded that OC Flying signed his logbook so he could get on his way. His flying club were soon contacted and asked to send a responsible adult to fetch him back!

NutLoose 29th May 2020 14:33

They should have fired off a red flare, as they missed the opportunity earlier, they could have fired it through the open door of his aircraft to satisfy protocol, satifaction all round and something for the fire section to practice on. ;)

Legalapproach 29th May 2020 14:36

LS8C1 and Jumpseater possibly Rule 11 or 12 of the Rules of the Air

Saintsman 29th May 2020 16:02

In the USA, it’s not unusual for pilots to land at airfields (and some of them are rather large) without ATC. Maybe he assume the same over here.

chevvron 29th May 2020 16:27


Originally Posted by homonculus (Post 10796657)
So a pilot who may well be a US citizen with limited flying experience in the UK makes a mistake - looking at the website I do not think his claim is incredible. Can someone explain to a humble civilian why this is so serious?

That particular aircraft has been operating in the UK for several years, certainly long enough for the pilot to know the regulations here.

just another jocky 29th May 2020 17:17


Originally Posted by Saintsman (Post 10796866)
In the USA, it’s not unusual for pilots to land at airfields (and some of them are rather large) without ATC. Maybe he assume the same over here.

You are allowed to land at airfields over here without ATC, but you are not allowed to land at a military airfield without permission and the blatant lack of any diligent flight planning plus his blasé attitude, not only to the laws and protocols under the present crisis but towards those at the airfield call into question his ability to make any reasonably safe decisions concerned with aviation.

He should never be allowed near a cockpit alone again.

scarecrow450 29th May 2020 17:25

No ATIS as it was a Bank Holiday, entered a MATZ with out 2 way contact, landed at a military afd without permission and did not have permission to land there oh and was he covered insurance wise to land at a military afd oh and in a foreign registered aircraft.

If ATC is closed, as it was there are no red flares to fire, besides bet he'd ignore it anyway !

MightyGem 29th May 2020 17:28

Just been on Radio 4's 6 o'clock News.

Green Flash 29th May 2020 17:28

He entered a military base without permission. Whether he flew in, limbo'd under the gate or swam up through the drains he was somewhere where he shouldn't be.

scarecrow450 29th May 2020 17:31

I blocked in a Dove with the ATC Rover at a secret base in Norfolk years ago as he had refused to pay his parking fees, When I got out and locked it telling the pilot I'd be back the following day with a 50% increase in his fees he soon payed up !


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