TTN
Do you feel that is a fair comment TTN? :ouch:

OAP

Speaking as someone due to get one, yes. I see it much the same as the Jubilee medals; might look ok on a Remembrance Sunday, but ultimately a chocolate medal that I haven’t earned.

I’d much rather any available money (of which there isn’t any) spent on a medal to reward those participating in Op SHADER who don’t qualify currently (Reaper Force, FJ TG1, CAOC etc).

Well FR, well done! But again, you fall into the trap, being derisive. You are entitled to your opinion but, there is more to this. You may have qualified for other awards but, it is also quite likely that you have missed-out on others due to time and place? This can happen, despite making major contributions and just not making the criteria. One of the background attributes of long service recognition is..just that! Long Service, not always recognised. TBH, I am not impressed by those who slag awards for Military Service.
BTW, you do not have to wear it.

OAP

Posted before your edit. Your EDIT reference to other meritorius awards that are lacking in breadth is still not helped by slaging others, IMO.

I don’t see I’m being particularly derisive; I really don’t see the issue with the LS&GCM. I actually agree with the previous LS&GCM position - having accepted the Queen’s Commission, your good conduct should not be a question. Accordingly the medal becomes a medal for ‘turning up’, and where’s the value in that?

Meant to say, I see it much like the argument for a National Defence Medal (couldn’t remember the name I saw on a petition). Why not give everyone who has done one day in the military a medal? In my opinion doing so would cheapen the value of the medals people do have...

Not meaning to be argumentative or a “name-caller”, I just don’t particularly feel proud of either my QDJM or the LS&GCM I have inbound. I probably wouldn’t bother getting it mounted if I didn’t have the SHADER one coming at the same time.

FR
If you have such strong convictions about your awards, don't get them mounted then!
But please, don't come on here slaging "chocolate medals" etc,etc. :=

OAP

Well argue your case - why do you feel hard done by in not being awarded a LS&GCM? I agree that the arbitrary date of 2014 is quite a strange decision; indeed, as stated above I think the status quo prior to then was fine. Why do you feel that you should be awarded the medal, barring “Bloggs left in 2016 and he has one”? Genuinely curious - certainly not wanting to start a Boxing Day argument!

Well as I didn't do long enough to qualify for an LS&GC whatever the date criteria I feel I can be neutral on this. All I meant to say was that if the powers that be felt that if a man who was killed as a result of enemy action still didn't qualify for campaign medals as he hadn't actually reached the theatre he was heading for, then putting an arbitrary limit on which officers may qualify for a long service medal seems a fairly trivial matter by comparison.

Incidentally I was chatting to my old plotter on the phone and discovered he hadn't heard about this medal. I told him that his service dates would not qualify him for the award, but he said he would probably have failed on the "good conduct" side of things anyway!

Quote TTN
"All I meant to say was that if the powers that be felt that if a man who was killed as a result of enemy action still didn't qualify for campaign medals as he hadn't actually reached the theatre he was heading for, then putting an arbitrary limit on which officers may qualify for a long service medal seems a fairly trivial matter by comparison."

Yep, I am with you there TTN.:ok:
My point is that you also chose to write,
"Something to think about for those who are moaning that they are not going to get the LS&GC!"
Please say why you imply that "those who are moaning" would not already fully understand and sympathise with others who are treated badly by the system?
Cheers

OAP

gijoe wrote:Fully agree. What's the point in recognising appearance time and brown-nosing?

I'd far sooner see something awarded to air-and-groundcrews who supported UK QRA at some time or other - whether interceptor, V-bomber or AD tanker force members.

FR, you are late on parade. The concept is simple and has been well aired on the "Whopee! Medals for all!" thread over a year ago.

OAP

If you are going to go down that road then what about the Maritime crews who held SAR or who tracked Russian boats?

Or the Albert crews who held Q?

ExA, which starts to emulate the US route, a medal with a posting notice. I think we went round that buoy earlier in this thread but medals for Brass Nut, Dirty Dicks, Strait Street, Heroes Square, Bugis Street, perhaps with a Kokinelli Star and no doubt many others for places various in RAFG.

I’ve just read that, as Boxing Day TV is pretty poor. I’m still not any the wiser - I agree that the imposition of an arbitrary date in 2014 is divisive, but there has been a divide between the “qualifies” and the “don’t qualifies” for every medal that I can think of.

The Silver Jubilee medal was only awarded to a handful of people in the 70s - should we revisit that? I was serving in 2002 when the Golden Jubilee medal came out, but didn’t get one as I hadn’t done 5 years - whereas my ex-UAS colleagues did. Should we revisit that decision? I do know that I don’t feel bitter at all that I don’t have a Golden Jubilee medal...

I’m never convinced on the ‘National Defence Medal’ argument either - people get a very nice lapel badge saying ‘Veteran’ when they leave, along with a lifetime of memories and friends; isn’t that enough?

Selective awarding of Medals
 

One area that has been inconsistent has been to diplomatic staff in posts supporting operations or within the joint operational area.

I spent a bit of time (over three years) in a middle eastern state directly supporting operations from the Embassy, yet this did not qualify me for the operational medal. in contrast other personnel who served at a HQ for four months did. This risk and rigour aspect was debatable: all vehicle travel for me was in a civilian armoured vehicle and on occasions i wore covert body armour as well. I narrowly avoided two large terrorist attacks and the risk to life and limb was much greater and more persistent than those at the coalition HQs.

And then there was the shameful awarding of the Kosovo and FRY NATO medals to those who spent 3 or more months drinking cappuccinos at Frankie's in AFSOUTH/JFC Naples. I had served in both theatres and resented being regarded as a Naples REMF.

But it's also water under the bridge; I'm proud of my service and my medals but apart from the annual airing on Remembrance Sunday or the miniatures at a College dinner, i will never wear them or my ribbons again on a uniform.

I joined when few people wore medals; I have left when two rows are common (and justified), and as mentioned in an earlier post just qualified for the LSGCM and clasp. I dare say in a few years time the debate will continue to smoulder as those with a rash of operational medals leave.

I joined when few people wore medals; I have left when two rows are common (and justified), and as mentioned in an earlier post just qualified for the LSGCM and clasp. I dare say in a few years time the debate will continue to smoulder as those with a rash of operational medals leave.

...it will. And there will be those junior personnel of all ranks and colours of uniform who will leave after becoming totally bemused by a system that pretends to send them on op tours to Cyprus, Jordan, Turkey, Oman, Qatar etc but doesn't see that as more relavent than LS&GC-earning time spent behind a desk in Blighty.

G

https://gallery.mailchimp.com/bc1328464a6603c782a5bc55b/images/2e3db11f-fe93-4e41-be81-3051333e30aa.png

I just received it. It's a crap lapel badge and my 55 year old eyes cannot make out the decoration on it unaided.

Provided my pension comes through every month:

"Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn"

I have just received a splendid replacement with a clutch pin. It was to replace one with a brooch pin that defied all efforts to get it out of its box.

I sent it by courier on the 20th and got its replacement today. What splendid service for an excellent device.

With reference to the alleged "Long Service" medal for Officers. Logic dictates that there should be a date of commencement for the qualification rather than a cut off point for service. The award being a "Queen's medal", there being no precedent, should commence for serving Officers at her coronation and the first qualification date would be in 1968. This should remove the argument over entitlement. the 2014 arbitrary date was conjured out of nowhere. Numbers of awards are far less than the thousands of W.O.s SNCOs and airmens' medals issued over the same time period.

Dougie M,

An interesting 'take' on the eligibility issue. However, until about 198???? the qualifying period for the LS&GCM was 18 years, so a little 'fettling' might be required.

That said, there is some suggestion that the date set was in some measure related to cost of 'legacy' awards but the situation is that an officer who might have qualified in the past, would often have been subject to a more rigorous code of conduct than is now the case (eg more lenient view of drink driving and the politely called - social misconduct). It could be argued that in the past one was more deserving of the award than is now the case.

A further issue with officers no longer in the RAF, is how to assess their conduct and what sort of appeals process might there be - say - from somebody invited to leave the RAF for an offence which might now warrant no more than an interview without coffee.

Old Duffer - 30 plus years - (as my mother said of my father) - for undetected crime!

Phil is sporting a full set of Good Conduct bars so past performance . . .

Ah.......... but PN, this is a clear case of 'one law for us and another for them'!

Just think of what might be made of your future King's earlier conduct (and I understand by his own admission!!).

O-D (packing a case, lest I am called to the tower (of London, not Sleaford)

OD, I guess Andy and Ed will be wearing them too though I see Andy in civvies more often than not.

Probably the same problem many of us have - uniforms shrinking in the wardrobe..........

There is a precedent there. An earlier long serving Prince of Wales put it about a great deal while waiting for his mother to vacate the throne, and all the while he was supposedly respectably married to the future Queen Alexandra. By all accounts as King Edward VII he was generally respected as a monarch.

Going off at a tangent, as a young Scots Guardsman my father was on parade for the funeral of Queen Alexandra. Quite a link to a bygone age.

Ah........... TTH, how right you are. However, Andy has been promoted several times and is now a Vice Admiral, I understand. Surely a 'prince of the blood royal' does not just shove - or get a flunky to shove - his uniform at a tailor to be re ranked. One would hope he would get a new one. Mind you, his sister's husband is a real Vice Admiral, so perhaps they share a hat.

Old Duffer

O-D, KGVI didn't get a new No 1 when they changed to 3 buttons, he had the tunic shortened with the join hidden under the belt.