Holders of the VC were automatically eligible for jubilee medals, as for wearing other countries medals if they were awarded to him and his government were happy then why not? Its not like he bought them on EBay!

Foreign medals may be worn if permission has been granted by the Sovereign.

Also for GC holders and includes Coronation medals for the remainder of their life.

Keith P has got 4 of my 5! including the 2 Omani ones 2nd and 3rd from last. (I met him briefly in Oman).

For UK regulars comme moi, there was a DCI issued authorising the wear of the campaign medals. For one off gallantry awards or similar there was an individual letter from the Palace!

The ribbon of the Dhofar Campaign Medal (KP's 3rd from the end) looks a bit like the one for the Kuwaiti Liberation Medal (which can't be worn). I've been "counselled" on my apparent error by many ranks from SWO to Brigadier; it was fun telling them they were wrong!

A bit easier when Jock Stirrup was CAS/CDS as he had one.

Dhofar Medal

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02...1170768304.jpg

Kuwait Liberation

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_06...1213980402.jpg

Interesting Teeters, I met an old chum called Tim Jones from my rockape days at a black tie reunion. I was sporting my single GSM miniature from Aden where Tim and I both served, but was rather outshone by his row of 6 or 7 which included the two you mention, as well as several other blingy looking things from the same sandy region.

Re coronation and jubilee medals, anyone who watched this year's Cenotaph parade will have seen Bill Speakman wearing his VC group, which includes the "full set" of 1953 Coronation Medal, QSJM, QGSM and QDJM.

Re Payne VC's group, I think I counted 24. I used to do medal mounting but always "sub contracted" court mounting to a mate, as I found it such a fiddle. Obviously Payne's have been mounted for display, but trying to mount a group of 24 with sufficient overlap to enable them to be worn without looking like Kenny Everett's US general would be a bit of a nightmare!

Ttn Tim Jones I also knew - I was seconded to Oman from '73 to '75.

Tim was one of the few (the only?) Rock who was seconded to SAF as an infanteer; there were of course many Rocks - as Rocks - at Salalah mostly manning the "Hedgehogs" IIRC.

You will be aware that the Omani campaign medals and the GSM Dhofar clasp were an "either or"; seconded - wearing Sultan's uniform - no GSM clasp.

Although I do know of some fairly senior ex-secondees who seem to have "acquired" a Dhofar clap to their GSMs........ (and no - it wasn't Jock S!)

I'd forgotten that the VC holder was awarded the jubillee medals. I was on parade with the son of a VC holder from the First War at the Cenotaph in November. He was proudly wearing his father's medals - VC and the 3 Great War Medals. He didn't have any of the coronation or jubillee medals. Will send him a message to ask if his father had them but didn't mount the medals or didn't get them.

Even with overlapping his medals, the bar is still huge

http://vcgca.org/files/uploads/2/1/9...eith-payne.jpg

Teeters - Interesting you knew Tim. He and I were young rocks together at Catterick, and later in Singapore where he managed to wangle the job of ADC to the Air Commander (C in C), AM Sir Rochford Hughes, a no-nonsense Kiwi who had sacked a couple of earlier candidates before Tim came along and managed to hold on to the job. Always a smooth operator, I knew he would do well and the last time I saw him he had a pretty good job with Rolls Royce, which he told me involved lots of schmoozing - something he would be very good at!

November 4 - yes that is impressive. I know if I had been presented with that job I would have given up pretty quickly and handed over to somebody with nimbler fingers than mine.

TTN

As stated in an earlier post you can not wear the Kuwait Liberation Medal, and I understand the same rule applies to the Saudi medal issued after GW1, whilst still serving. What is the protocol about wearing them, or other foreign medals, after retirement? Or does that qualify you as a Walt?

I am unlikely to fork out £100 to have them mounted to wear them on French Remembrance Day parades in any event.

TT, protocol, verboten. However father in law, and others of his time, proudly wore his Soviet Arctic medals with some issued on anniversaries. He did not survive to get the Arctic emblem and later Arctic Star, though his widow has both now.

UJ - It is a privilege


TT - where in SW France? RAFA Sud Ouest Branch?

Whatever the protocol, I'd say that if they were awarded to you, go ahead and wear them. Remembrance parades are already peppered with blokes covered in those pseudo medals such as the National Service Medal and many more which are available to anyone who wishes to shell out thirty odd quid a go. Pinning your Saudi and Kuwaiti medals under your official group certainly wouldn't qualify you as a Walt in my book - but mind you they are 'orrible medals - why bother?!

Your man was in the correct form of dress, the Coronation/Jubilee policy came into effect at King George VI Coronation 1937.

I think that people do take certain liberties once retired, but frankly I think you’d have to be slightly grumpy to kick up a fuss about medals that were awarded but can’t officially be worn (rather than bought ones) being worn in retirement. You even see current serving occassionally doing it with their miniatures; I’ve seen the NATO ISAF medal quite often with Mess kit and nobody seems to mind. Other than the sticklers who would probably find fault in a happy hour full of free beer and nurses!

I always missed those :(

Like the coach load of Swedish nymphomaniacs who always arrived ten minutes after I left a party!

Tengah Type, I can't recall whether you were at the VC10 do at the Witney Lakes a couple or so years ago?

Certainly one well-known ex-Air Eng (wae'aye man!) was sporting the Kuwaiti Liberation medals awarded by Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, together with all his other miniatures...:ok:

Protocol be bug gered - wear them if you were awarded them! Palace fag-hags and medal nerds might not like it, but Walting it isn't!

TTN, was the Barnsley Witch before your time?

The Barnsley Witch? Not the Goblin Teasmade of FY fame?

Oh, this is going waaaaaay off topic.

Ah, but perhaps, medals should have been awarded if you lived to tell the tale!

Perhaps awarded to the 'Lady' for Long Service. The Good Conduct bit could be difficult to explain!

Oh, I don't know though.

WanderOO

I live in Hourtin 33990 in the heart of the Medoc. I will contact the RAFA SO
Branch. I have not previously been a member of RAFA but will join.

BEagle

Yes, I was at the Witney Lakes VC10 function, last to leave the bar, and retire to my Campingcar in the car park for the night. I can not remember if YI (as it said on his airshow name tag) was wearing the aforementioned " 'orrible medals" ,but remember a Hero of the Russian People bemoaning the several hundred pounds he was forced to fork out for a specially made miniature.

Tengah - we will be pleased to see you. Terry Dennett is Sec and his wife Beryl Dennett Stannard is Madam la Presidente. They will be pleased to hear from you at [email protected]


Cheers W

WanderOO

Many thanks. Job done.

Actually, TT, he was awarded the 'Order of Friendship'.

Did he sort Vlad out with a nice watch ;) ?

the cost, the cost...
 

Out of nostalgia, i had my LSGCM and clasp court mounted along with my other round medals, along with the miniatures. i sought out quotes from the usual suspects but ended up getting a colleague from MOD to get them done at Wellington Barracks.

All I can say is what a mess. Wrong ribbon for a foreign one (I provided new ribbons) and all crooked. The miniature LSGCM is of extremely poor quality and was mounted without the clasp! Apparently the tailor sent them to Deepcut...anyway it also costed me a cool £98.

As I have highlighted in the "Do you believe Mrs May" Christmas message to the Armed forces thread, I also see that the dichotomy of support for Service veterans and political words remains in full flood in respect of the insulting imposition of the post May 2014 limiting date of the LSGC award. Merry Christmas to you to Mrs May! :p

OAP

So how far back do you go then if you want retrospective awards?

Melchett, 1942 at least.

Well Meltchy, it would appear that the power of reason has prevailed in some cases of over 50 years. :D But, that is not the issue here. The validity of the case for alignment of awards for commissioned and non-commissioned personnel was a sound one. This is borne-out by the introduction of the present medal. However, the new absurd situation has been created, by limiting the new criteria to awards only to Officer's who retired after May 2014. By this purely mean spirited action, a greater prejudice has been created. Previously, most long serving Officer's would not qualify. Now, all Officers who serve long enough and retire after May 2014 can qualify but, regardless of how many decades one served, if you retired before May 2014 you will not be recognised. The stupidity of the 2014 rule is outstanding! :rolleyes:

Merry Christmas

OAP

PN, well why not 1916 then? There’s got to be a line somewhere, seems to me this was one of those issues that was always going to be a case of the wrong decision.

Why? The award could have been made back to any date, with the caveat that the gong would only be presented free to those still in service, if the cost is such a big issue for the "Fifth largest economy in the world"? :rolleyes:

OAP

29 Jul 14. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/medals-campaigns-descriptions-and-eligibility#current-meritorious-and-long-service-medals

Melchett, AFAIK the only medals awarded in 1916 were Pop, Squeak and Wilfred. You qualified or you didn't. There was no contention over qualification. The Arctic Star was retrospective and awarded to retired personnel or their NOK.

The LSGC medal was also retrospective and similarly awarded to retired personnel and NOK (among others) but limited to an arbitrary period.

Also The Mercantile Marine Medal P-N - but I'm just being pedantic! ;)

'ang about a bit.

Wasn't there something called the Territorial Force Medal (or similar) 1914-1919, which was issued in 1920 to people like nurses etc?

O-D

O-D, correct, so that pushes precedent back to 4 Aug 1914. And it was an either or medal similar to Burma/Pacific Star.

OTOH setting criteria dates is something the committee seems love.

I am with OAP for those that want some bling.

I offer a couple of seeming inconsistencies, which perhaps ought to be examined.

RAF Reserve personnel in certain categories (eg those holding CC commissions, such as permanent staff at ATC HQs) were not eligible for any of the jubilee medals, even though the RAFVR(T) staff they commanded were. With the extension of the LSGCM to officers, this group is still ineligible.

The status of an officer who has left the service before 2014 but then returns to regular service, seems unclear. Can that person count their pre-2014 time as qualifying service towards the award of the LSGCM when they return to regular service?

Can I also cite a personal example of inconsistent regulations regarding medal awards.

On leaving the RAF, I was commissioned into the RAFVR(T) and could have 'claimed' three years regular service towards the 12 years required for the award of the Cadet Forces Medal (CFM). However, as I had a period as a civilian instructor with the ATC between the two commissions, I could not count those three years because there was a break of service. Now the unbroken service clause no longer applies for the CFM and so I have eligible cadets service over 18 plus three years regular service, with another three years since the award of the CFM and hence should have received a first clasp (6 more years) and be well on my way to a second clasp - BUT - apparently not.

Old Duffer

I'm not sure about the fairness of the LS&GCM for those currently serving. From what I've read:
15 years? In 2014 the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 tariff for a 4 year custodial sentence was reduced from 'never spent' to 7 years - yet the LS&GCM criteria for some mere 'Axminster shuffler' is more than twice that.... So someone deemed not to qualify for this piece of bling will be stigmatised for 15 years in a very public way whenever medals are to be worn?

Is that really fair in this day and age? Or should the 'free from sin' period be reviewed to reflect the amendments to the Act?

BEagle, and those who retired before the magic date carrying their discharge letter to prove they were not excluded be reasons of some crime.

The whole LS&GC for officers issue is pathetic and smacks of a medal system that is outdated and totally out of touch with those that receive them.

'Indeed there was O-D. To clarify, it was only awarded to territorials who had completed 4 years service before 4 August 1914, and who had undertaken to serve outside the Uk (not compulsory for territorials). As P-N correctly states it was an either/or medal - you couldn't get this one and the 1914 or 1914-Star. Consequently it is a scarce medal, only 34,000 were issued as opposed to well over 2 million 1914-15 Stars.

As you say it was awarded to nurses but only those who met the above requirements.

It's worth pointing out that qualification criteria were very tough at the time. I once bought a single British War Medal to a soldier who had been lost at sea when his transport ship was torpedoed on its way out to the Dardanelles. I assumed his 1914-15 Star and Victory Medal had been lost, but research showed that he had never been awarded them, as he was deemed never to have been on active service - getting torpedoed and drowned didn't count! Something to think about for those who are moaning that they are not going to get the LS&GC!