PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Military Aviation (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation-57/)
-   -   Long Service Medal for Officers (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/575918-long-service-medal-officers.html)

Onceapilot 29th May 2017 20:52


Originally Posted by gijoe (Post 9786635)

The LS for officers is not needed.

Just which medals are "needed" then? :ooh:

OAP

gijoe 29th May 2017 21:03

Ones for operational deployments perhaps?

LS - goes with the leadership thing. Jubilees - dodgy ground.

ian16th 30th May 2017 06:51

We could always go back to the pre-1951 Good Conduct Stripes.



Hat, coat...........

Pontius Navigator 30th May 2017 08:40

Gijoe, like swimming in the pool, happy hour, wandering round the bazaars and other delights. A threat maybe, but running around with cabbage kit, tin hats etc, no way. Running at all was a no no, and the most rigorous events were a jungle walk in Singapore and R2I training in Boogie Street.

6foottanker 30th May 2017 13:42

What's this then??

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/q...-medal-reduced

ian16th 30th May 2017 14:34


Bars are to be awarded for each additional period of 720 days approved operational service.
I see that the term 'Bars' is used, not 'Clasps'.

TTN Any comment?

gijoe 30th May 2017 14:58


Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator (Post 9787005)
Gijoe, like swimming in the pool, happy hour, wandering round the bazaars and other delights. A threat maybe, but running around with cabbage kit, tin hats etc, no way. Running at all was a no no, and the most rigorous events were a jungle walk in Singapore and R2I training in Boogie Street.

I have no idea how that links to my points or what you are on about.

The AcSM - removing the need for another medal to be approved before it counts towards the new AcSM would be a partial victory...but still a cop out.

orgASMic 30th May 2017 15:01


Originally Posted by ian16th (Post 9787360)
I see that the term 'Bars' is used, not 'Clasps'.

TTN Any comment?

Bars are for repeat awards (eg DFC and Bar). Clasps are to designate theatres of operations (OSM Afghanistan with Clasp, GSM with Northern Ireland Clasp).

Onceapilot 30th May 2017 16:34

Am I missing the point with the AcSM? Are some campaigns (with their own awards) TOTALLY without merit if an individual did not reach the Medal qualifying period? Surely, such unrecognised service should count towards the AcSM? :confused:

OAP

alfred_the_great 30th May 2017 19:47

If it's any help, I was awarded mine today by a very nice 1*.

ian16th 30th May 2017 20:09


Originally Posted by orgASMic (Post 9787382)
Bars are for repeat awards (eg DFC and Bar). Clasps are to designate theatres of operations (OSM Afghanistan with Clasp, GSM with Northern Ireland Clasp).

I was assuming that additional time would be in different theatres.

But time in several theatres can count towards each award.

So different to the old GSM

Tankertrashnav 30th May 2017 22:50


I see that the term 'Bars' is used, not 'Clasps'.

TTN Any comment
Hello Ian. Well Orgasmic is correct, but I have to confess that I, like most people in the medal world, would tend to say "bar" where I should say "clasp", eg "I have the 1962 GSM with the 'South Arabia' bar"

orgASMic 31st May 2017 07:44


Originally Posted by ian16th (Post 9787657)
I was assuming that additional time would be in different theatres.

But time in several theatres can count towards each award.

So different to the old GSM

Yes, indeed. It accounts for time on operations in general. Several RLC mates of mine have ACSMs for the multiple Bosnia tours they did in the mid-90s - one campaign medal (with a brass numeral on the ribbon to indicated the number of tours completed, a NATO thing) then an ACSM to denote 6+ tours, assuming 6 months each. I know one unlucky sod who has his ACSM for multiple tours of NI during the Troubles alongside his GSM62 with Clasp Northern Ireland.

Mahogany_Bomber 31st May 2017 08:07

I stand ready to be corrected, but I don't believe time served on NATO or UN medal qualifying operations counts towards either ACSM.

ian16th 31st May 2017 08:47

I take it that all time in different theatres is now equal?

Unlike the old GSM's, where one had to serve 30 days in the Canal Zone but 90 days in Cyprus for the local clasp/medal.

gijoe 31st May 2017 11:51

'Am I missing the point with the AcSM? Are some campaigns (with their own awards) TOTALLY without merit if an individual did not reach the Medal qualifying period? Surely, such unrecognised service should count towards the AcSM?'

Nope - I think you have it. Some campaigns with their own awards will also qualify towards the award of the AcSM.

Some op time will not - ie UN.

So those like SHADER, KIPION etc do not qualify towards the AcSM because they have not been deemed worthy by Senior Leadership of their own campaign medal.

The AcSM was all about keeping the Royal Irish in NI happy as they thought they were being short changed by doing multiple tours of NI....which was where most of them lived and drank tea in Sandy's for the majority of their career so the the hardship wasn't that hard. The risk and rigour in NI really wasn't that bad.

G

Melchett01 31st May 2017 12:00


Originally Posted by Onceapilot (Post 9787451)
Am I missing the point with the AcSM? Are some campaigns (with their own awards) TOTALLY without merit if an individual did not reach the Medal qualifying period? Surely, such unrecognised service should count towards the AcSM? :confused:

OAP

Assume you mean if you only do 25 days rather than the 30 needed for the medal, does the 25 days still count towards the ACSM or in every case do you have to meet the qualification criteria in order for the time to also count to the ACSM?

I hope not as I've got a couple of short last minute dets where I was covering gaps that weren't in themselves long enough for a gong, but were in medal earning appointments. That I'd already got the gongs was probably in part why I was asked to do them as I wasn't losing out on anything. The way I read the criteria in the earlier link is that as long as you have the qualifying medals, how you accumulate the time shouldn't matter. Otherwise it would not the Accumulated Campaign Sevice (subject to Ts&Cs) Medal.

gijoe 31st May 2017 12:26

That time should count as you it would have been in a medal-qualifying theatre.

alfred_the_great 31st May 2017 13:43


Originally Posted by gijoe (Post 9788301)
That time should count as you it would have been in a medal-qualifying theatre.

Nope - it's time after the medal qualifying time.

As put forward by the MoD Medals Office.

ARRSE has thread on this - it seems someone in the Medal Office is reading the rules in a very odd manner...

alfred_the_great 31st May 2017 13:44


Originally Posted by Mahogany_Bomber (Post 9788036)
I stand ready to be corrected, but I don't believe time served on NATO or UN medal qualifying operations counts towards either ACSM.

It depends - as an example, the UN medal for DR Congo counts towards an ACSM.

Mahogany_Bomber 31st May 2017 13:59

JSP 761 suggests otherwise ref ACSM 11 and UN medals (and I presume ACSM 94 was at least broadly similar):


https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...P761_Part1.pdf

Melchett01 31st May 2017 14:34


Originally Posted by alfred_the_great (Post 9788381)
Nope - it's time after the medal qualifying time.

As put forward by the MoD Medals Office.

ARRSE has thread on this - it seems someone in the Medal Office is reading the rules in a very odd manner...

If I were a betting man, I'd say they would claim that allowing you to include the original medal earning period counted as double medalling and therefore to stop it, ACSM time only starts after the initial qualifying period. If that's the case, it's exactly the sort of thing I would change if God for the day and allowed to revamp our utterly inflexible, and on occasions, stubbornly mean spirited medals policy.

alfred_the_great 31st May 2017 20:44


Originally Posted by Mahogany_Bomber (Post 9788394)
JSP 761 suggests otherwise ref ACSM 11 and UN medals (and I presume ACSM 94 was at least broadly similar):


https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...P761_Part1.pdf


Annex 8A and 8B say UN or NATO medals can be used.

Sloppy Link 31st May 2017 23:58

Alfred, don't be naughty, it is after 2000 on a case by case basis.


16 The published DCI/DIN relating to a multi-national operation will state whether service counts towards the ACSM.

Just This Once... 24th Nov 2017 09:24

Just received my 'failed to be convicted' medal and clasp in the post. With equal ceremony it has gone into a drawer. They are not exactly rushing theses things out.

Anyway, back to avoiding another clasp.

It's Not Working 24th Nov 2017 09:56

JTO, if it’s any consolation I got my WO's warrant 3.5 years after the event via internal mail. On the plus side it did have that nice Mr Hoon's 'signature' on it, remember him?

Lima Juliet 24th Nov 2017 19:38

Not getting one, even though I hit nearly 30 years of full time service. Must be my WWRinklyFruIt posts! :cool:

Like This - Do That 24th Nov 2017 23:18


Originally Posted by It's Not Working (Post 9967708)
... I got my WO's warrant 3.5 years after the event via internal mail. On the plus side it did have that nice Mr Hoon's 'signature' on it, remember him?

Similar here INW .... I had a call this week from the OPSO of the regiment of my first posting. He & I were new subalterns together. "Mate I have your commissioning scroll here, it's framed and it's a bit dusty - found it in a cupboard. It's dated 2010".

Which makes three of the silly things. One that arrived a couple of years after I was commissioned; a second given to me when I was promoted to CAPT; and the one discovered this week. All three signed by a mix of three different MINDEFs and two GGs ... none of whom were the MINDEF or GG at the time of my commissioning! :8

Rossian 25th Nov 2017 21:17

Should I feel hurt?......
 
.......after 35 years regular service followed by 8 years auxiliary service, including being mobilised at the age of 62??

Oddly, I don't think I am.

The Ancient Mariner

RHKAAF 26th Nov 2017 13:45

If I did my 16 years GD commission in the 60's and 70's , how do I go about requesting a LS&GC medal ? Do I write to MOD or will I be contacted ?
Has anyone yet received the medal ?
Was it a painless process ?

Bob Viking 26th Nov 2017 14:56

RHKAAF
 
Assuming this is not a wind up you may wish to read through the thread from the beginning and then either delete your post or follow my post with a rant similar to many that already adorn this thread.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings.

BV

Aynayda Pizaqvick 26th Nov 2017 20:09

So does that mean I won't be retrospectively getting the Golden and Silver jubilee medals because I happened to be alive when they issued them and did the qualifying time at some point during my career?!

silverfoxx 26th Nov 2017 20:33

Correct. Refer to the rules of qualification and the previous 6 pages of posts.

Old-Duffer 27th Nov 2017 06:03

As an ex-regular officer with 31 years service, I was quite looking forward to being awarded an LS&GCM to bring me into line with my Halton trained father. However, it quickly became apparent that I would not be eligible due to the actual timing period of my service.

However, any disappointment was quickly overcome when having had my regular service declared ineligible for the LS&GCM, I learned I could count three years of that towards my VR long service award and that nice lady who lives at the bottom of Constitution Hill did the rest.

I must say this latest bit of bling has a certain 'snob appeal' about it and it was much admired by an air force 'big cheese' I met t'other day (who didn't know what it was)!

Old Duffer

Tankertrashnav 27th Nov 2017 09:52

I also like the VRSM, Old Duffer, although I don't think it is as nice as the old Air Efficiency Award with its very attractive eagle suspension. Shame on the "big cheese" for not knowing what it was, it's been around for quite a few years now. I did know a chap in the AAC (TA) who had just missed out on qualifying for the Territorial Decoration, but had received the VRSM instead, He was quite miffed, and the last time I met him he was in correspondence with the MOD as he thought he could get both medals. Good luck with that one!

Whenurhappy 28th Nov 2017 09:06

I just picked my medals up after getting the LS&GCM and clasp mounted, as a favour at Wellington Barracks - a cool £96 for full-sized and miniatures. At least I didn't have to get my tunics done these days...

teeteringhead 28th Nov 2017 09:44

And then of course - as TTN probably knows - before the Territorial Decoration there used to be the Volunteer Officers' Decoration, with its rather unfortunate post-nominals.........

just another jocky 28th Nov 2017 10:41

Paperwork for both LS&GCM & the Shader medal went in weeks ago but still not heard anything.



Nearly £100 to get 2 new medals mounted & miniatures? Best I get saving.

Old-Duffer 28th Nov 2017 16:08

Apologies TTN - I have misled you with lax posting on this site.

I should have put VR(T) instead of just VR, so it's actually the Cadet Forces Medal I'm boasting about and rattling along swiftly towards a first clasp!

Old Duffer

Tankertrashnav 28th Nov 2017 16:43

O-D - thanks for that. The Cadet Forces Medal is also a nice one, but doesn't entitle you to any post nominal letters like the 'VR' which comes with the VRSM (not VD which teeteringhead alludes to :))


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:46.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.