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-   -   Voyager Plummets (Merged) (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/533921-voyager-plummets-merged.html)

Linedog 16th Feb 2017 17:36

Thank you, PN. This is turning out to have more in-fighting that the SI.

RetiredBA/BY 17th Feb 2017 06:34

May I ask if it is RAF policy, sop, for locked cockpit doors, as civil practice since 9-11 for the remaining pilot to be fully strapped in when the other is absent. I remember some years ago some US airlines even required the "solo" pilot to be on oxygen.

brakedwell 17th Feb 2017 06:37

Obviously not as the Co-pilot returned to the FD when he was weightless.

RetiredBA/BY 17th Feb 2017 07:34


Originally Posted by brakedwell (Post 9678776)
Obviously not as the Co-pilot returned to the FD when he was weightless.

Yes I know. Sops, Flying Orders, etc., and Policy are not always followed in practice which is why I asked the question.

212man 17th Feb 2017 07:57


May I ask if it is RAF policy, sop, for locked cockpit doors, as civil practice since 9-11 an the remaining pilot to be fully strapped in when the other is absent. I remember some years ago some US airlines even required the "solo" pilot to be on oxygen.
I assume the somewhat different 'customer' base would make this requirement unnecessary.

brakedwell 17th Feb 2017 08:29


I assume the somewhat different 'customer' base would make this requirement unnecessary
Exactly, but the Gurkhas did have to hand in their Kukris when we carried them between Hong Kong and Kathmandu. The knives were secured in a locked box fixed to the floor near the front galley.

Onceapilot 17th Feb 2017 09:10

Gentlemen, I would remind everyone that RAF operating and security procedures are often classified info. Whatever comes out into the public domain from the CM would usually reflect that as well. :ooh:

OAP

RetiredBA/BY 17th Feb 2017 11:21


Originally Posted by 212man (Post 9678819)
I assume the somewhat different 'customer' base would make this requirement unnecessary.

Not necessarily. There have been cases of rogue serviceman, both British and foreign, and even a deranged crew member , German Wings, led to the loss of the aircraft and all on board. Why take the risk, as I assume a Voyager has the same armoured door as civil A330s. ?

I think it hardly sensitive to ask if it's RAF policy for a "solo" pilot to be fully strapped in when alone in the cockpit.

brakedwell 17th Feb 2017 11:24


I think it hardly sensitive to ask if it's RAF policy for a "solo" pilot to be fully strapped in when alone in the cockpit.
Surely that is basic airmanship.

RetiredBA/BY 17th Feb 2017 11:30


Originally Posted by brakedwell (Post 9679033)
Surely that is basic airmanship.

I seem to remember that some even very basic airmanship, for mist of us, was defined in the flying order book.

When I say fully strapped in I mean just that, shoulder harness included, not just the usual lap strap.
Is it ever possible to get a simple answer to a simple question here?

sycamore 17th Feb 2017 14:42

b-dll/BA, seems more like a lack of `awaremanship`;a lot of `cheese holes lining up;,compounded by a p***-poor handover of contol when the co-pilot left the cockpit.It might be `boring` in the cruise,but you just `suck-it-up` until it`s your turn for a break...
Maybe they need a `third man`....err.. engineer with a big stick...

Pontius Navigator 17th Feb 2017 17:06

Where is the CM? Is it at Bulford or here on pprune?

Linedog 17th Feb 2017 18:22

I'm surprised no-one has volunteered for the firing squad yet.

Brian W May 17th Feb 2017 18:50

It is my belief Captain Darling is dealing with the firing squad . . .

Linedog 17th Feb 2017 18:51

As long as they don't leave it to Slack Bladder.

Easy Street 17th Feb 2017 19:19


even a deranged crew member , German Wings, led to the loss of the aircraft and all on board. Why take the risk,
An odd example when you consider that it was strict flight deck security that created the conditions for that accident.

The 'different customer base' point is not just about the reduced likelihood of unlawful interference happening in the first place: it's also that 200 squaddies are extremely unlikely to sit there doing nothing while their flight is unlawfully interfered with!

Personally I think the open cockpit on military AT is a wonderful thing; it is an example of implicit trust, which is good for cohesion between arms and services, and it enables flight deck visits which give servicemen a little bit of insight into why the Air Force is the way it is.

Pontius Navigator 17th Feb 2017 19:30

Ah, ES, maybe that was the problem, 200 squadies upset the CoG.

Pontius Navigator 20th Feb 2017 20:31

It seems that cameras in cockpits is not confined to military aircraft:

Dramatic moment German fighter jets intercept London-bound flight after pilot lost contact with air traffic control

airsound 21st Feb 2017 14:30

With one or two people asking about the progress of the Court Martial, I thought I'd ask the Military Court Service. A very helpful person emailed me straight back with this

it is expected the prosecution case to be completed on Wed 22 Feb and hopefully start the defence case that day also. If Flt Lt Townshend is to give evidence, it is likely to start on Wednesday and may go on until Thursday. If this all goes as expected we would expect closing speeches Thursday. It is anticipated the board will return with a verdict on the Friday. However, this is a fluid business and time-scales can change.
You only 'as to ask...

airsound

Pontius Navigator 21st Feb 2017 18:07

AS, thank you. I was curious as to why it has been 'invisible' to the media and also the length of the proceedings.

Whatever the outcome it will satisfy and dissatisfy the readers here in equal measure.


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