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We should definitely not get involved in any way or form. Neither side occupies the moral high ground. |
to take the statement a step further, from a partisan point of view we are better off having half the muslim world trying to kick the sh!t out of the other half - keeps them (mostly) off our backs!
Taking sides would be rank stupidity. Diplomacy requires us to weep, wail and gnash teeth, etc, but for f#cks sake DO nothing. |
Where did all this common sense come from? The UK population really does not give a toss if the followers of the religion of peace kill each other in industrial quantities. Any regime change will just substitute one group of corrupt murderous thugs for another.
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Is CMD losing the plot?
His commons statement on Monday was confused to say the least. By backing the "rebels" he's siding with AQ. This is a Sunni Vs Shiaa fight, have they ever stopped fighting in 1300 years????? Is Assad as bad as he's made out to be? Assad is Iran's best ally in the region, ergo any negotiated peace would need to have Iran's backing. This is not about democracy, the Saudi's back the "rebels" and the last time I looked Saudi Arabia was hardly a shining light of democracy. It could be a pre-cursor for a conflict with Iran, but the pesky Ruskies have outmonoeuvred everyone by supporting Assad - my goodness, how this could so easily escalate. CMD is heading towards Blair like rationality prior to 2003 :ugh: |
Very nice summary DakMan ;)
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fek me, someone agrees with me and the Torygraph, will have to change my opinion now.
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Report today was: Austria pulling its troops (360 of them) out of the Golan. The UN force in the Golan is about 1000. I seem to recall some bad things going on previously in this region when the UN bails ... cross border fighting starts.
Not a good sign, in re Syria and Israel. Things possibly getting messier. :p |
Austrian peacekeepers withdraw from Golan Heights | New Europe
Austrian peacekeepers withdraw from Golan Heights By Karafillis Giannoulis | June 11, 2013 - 2:32pm The Austrian peacekeepers in the demilitarised zone of Golan Heights are withdrawing from the area due to safety reasons and a lack of freedom of movement. The tension is rising in the Golan Heights, as the Syrian rebels seized the Quneitra crossing late last week in an incident that injured two of the UN peacekeepers. After the incident, Austria announced its intention to remove its troops from the area. On 11 June, al Jazeera reported that the Austrian peacekeepers left Golan Heights and headed to the main UN base on the Israeli side. Austria is expected to remove all of its UN Disengagement Observer Force (UNDOF) troops sent in the area later this month. At this point it is important to emphasise that the EU Member State contributes about one-third of UNDOF in the Golan Heights. On 7 June, the members of the UN Security Council had expressed their concern at the escalation of tension in the Golan Heights. Ambassador Mark Lyall Grant of the UK said that the UN Department of Peacekeeping Operations (DPKO) is currently looking to engage with countries, able and willing to increase their troops in the Golan Heights and fill the gap that will be left by the Austrian withdrawal. According to Grant officials from DPKO, “will also be looking at the possibility of new troop contributors and getting them into the theatre as soon as possible, at the same time as trying to encourage the Austrians to slow down their departure from the theatre and dissuade any other current troop contributors from withdrawing troops.” Grant stressed that it’s important for UNDOF to continue his key role in guaranteeing the 1974 ceasefire disengagement agreement between Israel and Syria. Therefore the presence of UNDOF in the Golan Heights, a region which was captured by the Israeli forces during the 1967 Six-Day War, remains extremely crucial for the prevention of any spill-over effect. The gradual withdrawal of the Austrian peacekeepers is not the first, as Japan and Croatia have also withdrawn their troops in recent months as battles between the two Syrian sides had spread into the ceasefire zone. Russia has declared its willingness to fill the gap in the Golan Heights but the 1974 UN international agreement that created the UN force in the area, doesn’t allow any member of the UN Security Council to participate in the mission. |
Syria death toll at least 93,000, says UN
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I can't help but wonder if our governments and other gulf states didn't send weapons, advisers and combatants to the 'rebel' then this war would have been over a long time ago and the death toll would have been significantly reduced.
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Indeed, our political leaders seem determined to leave us with blood soaked hands no matter what.
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Well, I think anyone who follows public commentary on daily press reports will see, there is little appetite for supporting Hague or Cameron in supplying weapons. However, like Bliar before them, selective "recognition" of the people's wishes will obviously come in to play. What I do believe is that the people with the "blood on their hands" , will be the ones that push for supplying arms, against the wishes of joe public.
Smudge |
Smudge, you're not the Shakyboat Smudge that did the (in)famous Smudge disapperaing trick on the ML2 course are you?
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Dak Man,
Sorry mate, I've watched many, silly in my opinion, "shaky boats" people jump out of my perfectly serviceable aircraft, but doubt I would ever have the temerity to claim to be one. Shaky - maybe, especially these days, boats - not as long as there's an alternative. Or are you referring to the, "Im just going to check something on the roof of the aircraft, don't let the loadie put the hatch back in"? Smudge (ex Airman, not Royal Marine) :ok: |
So, as predicted, the Western allies in this folly are going for a no fly zone (or maybe two, one along the Lebanese border and one along the Turkish border).
It will be interesting to see how they implement this. The day one SEAD phase will be interesting against such a strong integrated air defence. It will be interesting to see which forces "our" side deploys. Presumably from a mixture of carriers and Akrotiri. Will they go OTT (as usual) and pre-emptively take out the Syrian airforce on the ground? Will Israel just sit there and watch? And what will Iran do? |
I am sickened and ashamed at the UK and USA for doing this. Its none of our business and all this talk of chemical weapons reminds me of Iraq 2003, yet another lie.
If only the Russians and Chinese would do more to stop this imperialism, maybe one day they will! I hope the rest of the world understands its not the majority population in the UK/USA who want this but a ruling elite who are very far removed from reality. Handing over Syria to a bunch of radicals is a very bad idea, giving said people weapons and training is also a very bad idea. Moscow unconvinced by US evidence of Syrian chemical weapons use ? RT News US to give military support to Syrian rebels as ?red line' crossed ? RT News |
Govt says today no decision taken....which presumably means RAF operations in support of Al Qaeda start sometime soon. Best of luck boys!
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Thanks for clarifying Smudge.:ok:
When I think about Syria and the Middle East in general, I'm always mided of the interview that Gen Wes Clark gave a while back. |
General Clark ... I guess he was wrong about the seven countries in five years, eh? :p
I'll suggest to you that he was leaving a lot out of that story. ;) |
You just can't help but get that horrible feeling that all of our politicians are off on a military adventure that they feel they can always blame on, intelligence reports, military can do attitude etc etc. We see real proof that the vast majority of the "bosses of Westminster" (us) have no interest in becoming involved in this conflict. I also ask, that should an indigenous grouping within UK decide to "kick up" against the government, would we be obliged to support them with weapons, and (as Mr (I was in the Air Force)) McCain says, Air cover and a chance to make their point. I suspect that we are off on another expedition to "big up" the political agenda. When it goes wrong they will blame the Army, Navy and Air Force. More than 90 % are said to be against any involvement into Syria, why do the politico's persist? I do have a feeling of Deja vu.
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Start getting those tents back up at Incerlik, Op Deny Assad? Unless, of course the Turks are having their own civil war by then. :ugh:
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I'm wondering if LCRA might not be a more logical "aircraft carrier" for both our and our US allies air fleets, as they maintain the "Air superiority"espoused by McCain. Turkey seems to have enough problems at the moment. US basing in Israel is also an option. If LCRA was used what do we think the Cypriots might think of incoming missiles, aimed at denying the airfield to our Air Force? It's all a "buggers muddle" to me. Of course, our leaders will have this all thought out by now !!!
Smudge |
LW50, regail us of what you're suggesting he left out.
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It's "regale" DM not "regail".
It means to entertain lavishly with food and drink. If only everyone could do that with all their so-called enemies! Rgds SOS |
If we arm the FSA there will be somebody regaling......recent past experiance has shown some 'freedom fighters' will head from bank to bank, museum to museum etc.
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I agree with many of the posters, that we should not be involved in this adventure which will only arm our future enemies.
Our only hope is if the Russians step in and say stop, or else. |
Little support from US citizens-poll
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SOS, thanks for clarifying, my response has 3 fs in it.
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see the Americans are leaving their F-16's and Patriots in Jordan "just in case"
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Rebel/Sunni with MANPAD
After the fall of Ghaddafi arms flooded out of Libya and were used by rebels as diversely located as Mali and Sinai. In Syria the Rebels have captured these MANPADs when they have overrun government bases. What is to prevent these weapons being smuggled out of Syria into the West to be used at a civil airport near you? And if we provide the extra MANPADs and ATGMs the Rebels are asking for doesn't that just increase the probability of weapons being smuggled out? An ATGM could make a mess of a high value city centre building. |
I never thought I'd find myself agreeing with a Russian leader instead of our own, and I am increasingly depressed with the actions of the leadership of our traditional friends. It appears that we could well walking into a total disaster. Ronnie Reagan's oft quoted remark is particularly apt " Don't just do something, stand there!"
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Lets face it, if it wasn't for western and eastern greed and the fact we armed them all in the first place they would still be riding around on camels waving swords, and they'd all be armed equally.
To arm any side is sheer lunacy, as for Chemical Weapons, didn't seem to bother the west when Saddam was killing the Kurds with them, but then he was delivering the oil. We will never learn, we can put our noses in other people's wars and arm them whist at the same time stripping our military of their assets. In a strange way i wish the Cold War would come back, because there were checks and balances, the Americans would not have dared invade any countries in the Middle East as they knew that it could trigger a Third World War, worked both ways...sadly that check has gone. |
So did Russia deliver those S-300/SA-10 to Syria or not?
Jerusalem Post: IDF not commenting on report Israel attacked Syrian airport The IDF was not commenting on a report on a Syrian TV station associated with the rebel forces that Israel attacked on Sunday night the military airbase Al-Miza, West of Damascus, Israel Radio reported. The report noted that a rebel organization had taken responsibility for the attack after the explosion to took place on Sunday night. The TV station reported that Israel bombed advanced weapons and radar systems that were recently brought to the airport, according to Israel Radio. Eye witnesses said that the explosions were large and that neither the Assad regime nor the rebels had the capability to create explosions of such a magnitude. |
I wonder how much of this talk is being driven by the House of Saud and the Qataris? No doubt they are increasingly worried about being humiliated by Assad - he clearly has the upper hand, courtesy of Hezbollah.
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If the reports this morning are accurate then 4,000 Iranian Revolutionary Guards are on their way to Syria to help support Assad. Its a weird world when I look on such people as being the ''good guys''. But compared to the other side they may almost be a bunch of caring liberals!
The earlier post about the Cold War was a good one. Maybe soon China will offer a balance to the US. With Russia and India thrown into the equation things get even more complicated. |
Syria is a multiple proxy war.
Between Sunni (Saudi & Qatar) and Shia (Iran) Between America/UK/France and Russia. Between Israel and Hezbollah/ Iran. Between Jihadists/Salafists and moderate Islam. Between Qatar and Russia for European gas supplies. +probably more! Plus the two big regional powers (Turkey and Israel) are flexing their muscles to show how important they are. And to choose the future shape of a neighbour country. Plus the Kurds are trying to build a greater Kurdistan nation. Then there is the co-operation between the security services of Russia, NATO and Israel to try and control extremist Islamic terrorists, chemical weapons and MANPADs. |
Rebels-One, tank crew- Zero.
These things really burn.:uhoh: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=86b_1359125284 |
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There are already 8,000 Saudis fighting in Syria on the side of the rebels.
70 went back to Saudi recently in body bags. Including 4 women! Bodies of 70 Saudi fighters return from Syria: Report - Tehran Times |
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