Even better: they don't want us involved - happy with that!

I believe Hague uses a weegie board for advice, mans a buffoon.

Totally agree with the let them fight it out scenario, we should have done that in several other countries as well.

Ronald,
Catch a grip will you! You might as well be posting links from David Icke. His analysis of anything military is farcical. Take a look Alex Jones 'analysis' of a 'shadow government plane'. He and his military experts can't even get the type correct let alone comprehend that it was in the circuit for the airport.

This whole little thing in Syria was probably begun by the west in the first place. According to the former French foreign minister it was!
France's Former Foreign Minister: UK Government Prepared War in Syria Two Years Before 2011 Protests - YouTube

TEEEJ, just because they are totally wrong about some things does not mean they are wrong about everything. Mainstream media often makes mistakes. Amongst the rubbish stories of Jones site are really good ones, often hard to find in the mainstream. The world is in urgent need of people like Jones as well as networks like RT to find out what is really going on. One just cannot rely on BBC, SKY, FOX and CNN which these days are just propaganda.

Does it really come as a surprise that the USA is so screwed up politically that a TV station would produce a programme using a housewife and a 'retired military man' who was barely capable of stringing two words together? I cannot imagine anybody taking this seriously.As for talking about Obama and other 'leftists' - the average American has no idea what the word socialist or being of left wing persuasion actually means

Foreign Secretary William Hague says for the first time that the "atrocity" in Syria
 

Russia Urges Syria To Allow UN 'Chemical' Probe

This is good news, or it's a smoke screen. Not sure which, but I hope the former.

But note on the latest revelations about the use of chemicals in Syria that Hagues response was about bringing the perpatrators to justice 'One day' - That seems to me a clear message that we are backing away from any intervention.

And its Ouija not weegie. :ok:

Those in glass houses...

I will quote Dan Dierdorf, much beloved lineman turned sports broadcaster on Monday Night Football:

"Let 'em play!"

Maybe this bloodletting is cathartic, and is needed.
Maybe not.

How do you make a weegie board? Take away his flick knife.


Sorry.


Posted from Pprune.org App for Android

Except there's not much blood in a chemical attack which results in the lifeless bodies of children are being lined up in a morgue. Imagine for just one second what a Sarin attack would be like in your Texas town and then repeat back the words, "Let 'em play!". In what way did those youngsters deserve such a horrific death?

Looks like my boss wants to do something.

BBC:: SYRIA UNREST:UK Foreign Secretary William Hague says civilised world cannot ignore Syria chemical attack allegations

I've got a spare unopened sachet of Fuller's Earth if anyone wants it.

The civilised world can ignore the situation in Syria or else some time down the line try to explain why the people we 'helped' are now slaughtering those of the old regime that survive the air attacks and cruise missiles.Arabs are capable of great cruelty to their enemies - its part of the culture. It is not an islamic thing as I have lived in islamic countries where this vicious attitude was non existent - Malaysia for instance.

bcgallacher,

Spot on with that comment, its a shame that the people screaming to "get in there", have probably never seen the real results of our "efforts to help democracy", and I include Hague in that. Posturing blowhard that he is, as a Yorkshireman, common sense will prevail I hope. Not holding my breath though.

Smudge

The 'outrage' at the events in Syria is being carefully managed to lower the public's expectations! View Obama and his 'red line' - its undoubtedly been crossed -maybe even danced on but the political retteric about the consequences of Syria doing that looks now very weak.
The war on the ground is already being fought with Western influence - if the political masters have any sense they will confine their efforts to intervention by cash and supplies only!

The reason that the 'West' should absolutely stay out of this is not for military reasons. These can all be solved somehow.
The real reason to stay out of this is because there simply is no 'right' side to support. You replace one problem with a probably even bigger problem.

Also this alleged Chemical attack: Is there any proof it was launched by the Assad regime?
Why should they? To convince the US or someone else to get involved?:confused:
Doesn't sound like a brilliant idea. :=
With Chemical weapons you will most severly hit the Civillians since Soldiers/Militias tend to be better equipped and trained to deal with that. So the pure military benefit of a chemical attack on a City is usually quite limited.

Deserve's got nothing to do with it, my boy. That country has been in a civil war for over two years. Civil wars are nasty business, above average in nasty as wars go. Whomever chose to gas them didn't give a flying fart what those youngsters did or didn't do, and those feckwits were their fellow countrymen. If somebody tried a Sarin attack on a town near here, I'd be happy to join the posse that hunts them down and kills them. Does that answer your stupid question?

If we have a civil war here, I'd expect any number of foreigners to feel about the same:

when you Americans get tired of killing each other, let us know. We'll plan our vacations elsewhere.

For henra:
Well said, sir! Except for this: the utility of a chemical attack, beyond killing some people, includes the element of sowing fear and terror. Fear is a reasonable response to chemical attacks, since they are extremely nasty and lethal.

The downside I can see is Assad is known quantity that keeps his country in check, all be it secretive, one wonders if he is deposed how the stability of the region will swing.

There is no getting around the fact that somewhere along the line the West or Russia or the late USSR is arming them, all be it from aid given to other countries in the past, or to Syria in itself..

The west needs to learn to stand back and let them get on with it, then talk with whoever comes out as winners, all we have done in the past is destabilised countries, go back a short while and you could have possible wandered around parts of Iraq, Libya etc free from worry that you would be killed, try that now. Fine we went in with the best of intentions and stuck our nose in where it didn't belong, but in all honesty what has it got us, hideous debt and a Government driven fear of terror in the UK that simply allows them to snoop on the populace under that pretext.

In my eyes we lost the war the day we got paranoid about safety at home and started to respond to it in the way we have, terrorists one, UK PLC zero.

Another ****hole, very little in the way of resources. Not our problem.

"Let 'em play!"
 

Lonewolf 50

Your choice of words is borderline inhuman given the atrocious savagery that has recently been witnessed. I am, however, sure that you sleep soundly and safely in your comfortable bed.

Game on
 

Looks like it's finally time for Assad to get some Tomahawk lovin'.
Good luck boys and girls - get some.
At the risk of sounding like a chickenhawk - previous posters who say it aint our problem need to have another look at the pictures of poison gassed kids.
Tally ho...

Tartare

What have you been smoking?

Where is the conclusive proof that Assad's forces were responsible for this attack?
Where was the conclusive proof that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass-destruction?

Yet another cluster xxxx .....!

Aint been smokin' nothing.
It's Bashir who's gonna be smoking. ;)
More detail here.
Seems they're getting ready should Obama decide to whack him and his brave, manly friends.

And what if they were gassed by one of the various rebel groups?!
Do you really believe the West getting involved in this mess will help reduce the suffering in that civil war?
If you do please expand.
What is the plan once Assad has been thrown out?
Please let us not start another war without the slightest cue what to do afterwards with the Country. This has now been tried a number of times and we are still waiting for the first instance where it works. And there is a reason for it:
In this Region there is an everlasting rivalry between the two big Muslim groups, Sunnis and Shi'ites. You won't settle that with any amount of Tomahawks. They have to get tired and fed up of fighting it out themselves before any help from the outside can lead to positive results.

Gassed by one of the rebel groups.
Guys - what have you all been smoking?
Occams Razor? The simplest explanation is probably the correct one?
You've all been watching too many political thrillers.
It sure as hell looks like the Syrian Govt did it - for multiple reasons.
Let me explain my viewpoint.
Here in Oz we are at the height of a very close election campaign.
Yet the Prime Minister has abandoned all of that and headed straight back to Canberra for an urgent UN briefing - which only means one thing.
The US is probably going to act.
And why?
Because Obama (who I actually think is a pretty good president - and quite hawkish too) is going to actually do something.
And why?
Probably because that intel apparatus that other pants wetting bleaters on this forum whine about - has come up with some proof.
There are times to debate - and there are times to act.
And personally boys - when I see that number of dead bodies as a result of poison gas - its war time.
None of you know how this will ultimately play out if Assad is removed.
It may not necessarily be a disaster.
And none of you have any insight into the planning and scenario modelling that may have been done if that were to happen - and you can bet your bottom dollar it will have been.
So as far as I'm concerned - bring it on.
There are times to fight - and this is one of them.
Doing nothing is much, much worse.
Just my two cents worth - so flame away.

Intel come up with facts where have I heard that before and look what we found........Nothing

The precedent here is Kosovo.
In 1999 NATO went in without UN approval on the basis of humanitarian needs and in the face of very strong Russian opposition.
A ten week intervention involving 1,000 NATO aircraft flying 38,000 missions.

Article: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/24/wo...k.html?hp&_r=0

You mean like the proof they had of WMD in Iraq ? :}

Its none of our business what happens in Syria. I remain to be convinced Assad even did this. It could be a false flag, something to create a justification for western intervention.

Until this trouble kicked off Syria had been a stable and safe nation. If Assad is removed the place will fracture apart, it will be an open land for various extremist groups to operate. What happens to all the minority groups then?

Anyone who backs military intervention in Syria is a someone who has failed to see the disasters we have caused in Iraq and Libya. Iraq was probably better under Saddam and Libya under Gaddafi. Even Afghanistan which had more justification has not gone well, once we leave it will return to how it was before.

But we have to ask ourselves who do we think we are? What right do we have to get involved? Its none of our business and we have no right to get involved.

The big players here are Turkey and Saudi Arabia. Turkey because of their Sunni solidarity with the rebels and the refugee crisis; Saudi for solidarity and to limit Iran's influence in the region. Saudi watched what happened in Egypt and backed the army to take control, they may do the same in Syria if the can get the army to remove Assad.

Did I say Turkey?

Turkish President Gül calls on world to ‘walk the walk’ in Syria

President Abdullah Gül says the international community should take concrete steps to prevent further bloodshed in Syria, while Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan slams the UN for its inaction, proposing an ‘alternative’


Underlining the severity of the Syrian civil war, President Abdullah Gül has said there are “no words left to say” over the conflict in the neighboring country, stressing that it is now time to take concrete steps.

“The brutal massacre of over 1,000 people with chemical weapons is a huge crime against humanity,” Gül said Aug. 23 in Istanbul, while making a veiled criticism of the United Nations Security Council for its failure to stop the bloodshed. In a similar criticism of the world body, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan recently suggested the formation of an alternative U.N.

“Those who committed these massacres will be remembered by a curse in history and they will be held to account before international law,” Gül said, while calling for U.N. experts to be granted immediate access to the site to investigate claims that an alleged gas attack near Damascus on Aug. 21 left over 1,000 people dead, a claim denied by the al-Assad regime.

Harrowing footage distributed by activists showing unconscious children, people foaming at the mouth, and doctors apparently giving them oxygen to help them breathe, has triggered revulsion around the world.

“There are no words left to say. It is time to take concrete steps. The cost of parrying these incidents by diplomatic maneuvers and tricks in the U.N. Security Council and extending over a period of time will be huge. It would destroy the U.N. system and conscience of humanity as well. Therefore, the time has come to take a very concrete step,” Gül said.

I must agree, unfortunately.

Interesting.........

Iran's Rouhani says chemical weapons killed people in Syria

Aug 24 (Reuters) - Iranian President Hassan Rouhani on Saturday acknowledged for the first time chemical weapons had killed people in ally Syria and called for the international community to prevent their use.

Rouhani stopped short of saying who had used the arms - Tehran has previously accused Syrian rebels of being behind what it called suspected chemical attacks. He also did not mention the international furore around Syrian opposition reports that forces loyal to the Damascus government killed as many as 1,000 civilians with poison gas in suburbs of Damascus on Wednesday.

"Many of the innocent people of Syria have been injured and martyred by chemical agents and this is unfortunate," recently elected Rouhani was quoted as saying by the ISNA news agency.

"We completely and strongly condemn the use of chemical weapons," he said, according to the agency. "The Islamic Republic gives notice to the international community to use all its might to prevent the use of these weapons anywhere in the world, especially in Syria," he added, according to the Mehr news agency............

I cannot see any huge problem with limited strikes on government command and control centres and on a few military targets, like airfields and missile sites. Apart from acting as a warning against the use of (further) chemical attacks, it would even the fight a little and let Russia know it cannot have its own way. It would be nice to have a UN resolution, but Russia and China will never let that happen.

Give Assad a bloody nose and then stand back for a while.

With the Americans saying a line has been drawn, then one would assume they would have to do something, otherwise their credibility would be gone the next time something happened as those involved could simply call their bluff....

What that something is remains to be seen.

Broadsword, why do you wish the rebels to win? Why in any way do we want to assist the rebels? What is good about them? Assad has many faults but if he falls and the rebels take over I cannot see any gain for anyone at all apart from a bunch of terrorists who can end up calling the shots in Syria!

If as you say we even the fight it little then it will make the war last longer. The longer it lasts the more people will die.

The best case would be if Assad could somehow win this and take back the whole country though that seems unlikely. If he ever could take it back then there would be peace, no more war. Sadly an unconditional surrender by rebel forces is not going to happen, but that would end the war and the violence very rapidly indeed!

Also regarding the talk of military action against Assad, if the Russians care strongly enough about stopping western military action they could always put their ships close to Syria and Russian aircraft at Syrian bases thus preventing a western attack, that's if they care enough to do so.
One day the war hawks in the west will push so far they end up starting something far larger with Russia or China, probably over some smaller situation to start with that really does not matter to us. I wonder if that larger war is what they really want. Russia and China are not going to keep putting up with this UK/US and now French mentality of ''policeman of the world''. Besides its not as if we have the money or forces to keep doing it, as for our own public opinion its vastly against further interventions.

US Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel confirmed to reporters that Obama had asked the Pentagon to provide military options in Syria.

The US Navy currently has four destroyers in the Mediterranean, each with more than 90 Tomahawk cruise missiles. The USS Barry and USS Gravely are currently located in the eastern Mediterranean. The USS Mahan and USS Ramage are located in the central Mediterranean.

It is looking like the sarin was delivered in 12 rounds from a Type 63 MLRS, something that both sides in the conflict possess.

Currently in Syria more people are dying in conflicts between the rebels than in the conflicts between the rebels and the government. The jihadist al Nusra are killing anyone who isn't the same as them. They are massacring Christians and Kurds as they ethnically cleanse non government held territory.

This guy has written 8 books on the area and has just returned from several months in Syria.
Karskens: Genocide op Koerden en christenen gaande in Syrië - Knevel en Van den Brink

Then there are the CIA training camps in Jordan. Forces from which crossed into Syria on the 17th and 19th of August, complete with American "advisors" to advance on Damascus. Allegedly : Syrie : l'opération anti-Assad a commencé

In English: Reports claim US-trained Syrian rebels are advancing on Damascus | euronews, world news