91 Year Old Spitfire Pilot Needs Your Help
 

I have just finished filming a 91 year old Spitfire photo reconnaissance pilot talking about his wartime experiences. Alec would have to fly over to Brest in France, which was the heaviest defended of the occupied ports on the French coast. A total of five Spitfires were shot down over Brest trying to look out for the Battleship "Scharnhorst" & submarines. Alec would then have to fly on to St-Nazaire, La Rochelle, Bairritz & St Jean-de-Luz on the Spanish Border photographing all the harbours & airfields. They weren't armed & had extra fuel tanks fitted where the machine guns, cannons & ammunition used to be. He would have to fly nearly 1,000nm.

On one sortie over Brest, he was hit by flak & soon, engine oil covered his windscreen & side canopy, so had to fly back to St Eval in Cornwall on instruments. When he thought that he was about there, he opened the canopy slightly so he could see out of the side, to land. He carried out a perfect landing but unfortunately, his brakes were damaged so went off the end of the runway & the Spitfire flipped up on it's nose. He was uninjured so was flying the very next day.

In 2002, Alec attended the 60th anniversary reunion of the PRU at RAF Benson & was asked if he would bring photographs of his Spitfires & his aerial reconnaissance pictures as well as press cuttings that he had saved, to be displayed at the event. After the reunion, when his items were not returned, he wrote to the Flt Sgt that was organising the event. He didn't get a response, so wrote to Benson's C.O. & again amazingly didn't receive a response. He even tried to get his local Member of Parliament involved, but without success. Alec is nearly blind now & this has had a bad effect on him. He gave his all for the Airforce & feels badly let down by the modern Airforce, which is a shame as he is a smashing gentleman.

I know that this is a long shot because the many years that have past, but if there is anyone out there that might have any information on Alec's property, you would make a very brave aviator very happy.

That is absolutely disgusting... Shame on them. :mad:

In 2001 I loaned an album of WWI aerial photographs (taken in Palestine and France, with annotations) to the PR museum at Benson. Tried to view it several years later - the said folio could not be found...

I am surprised, however, that the Stn Cdr didn't respond to the letter from the former Spitfire Pilot. A quiet call to the Adj or PA/CO should get this matter sorted out, pdq.

Try the Benson MCO (I have copied this thread to her) and she might be able to point somebody in the right direction.

RAF Benson - Visiting Us

VIProds

Do you have any names? In particular the Flt Sgt? I think I know who the CO was at the time, but names would be useful. Stick them up here and you will have a response in hours, either that or send them by PM.

We once had an Octoberfest in Germany and invited some very special German guests one particular year. One of them was an old boy, maybe 70 years who came wearing the best traditional German clothes, including a Hat with badges and medals on covering Octoberfests around Germany for the previous 50 years. He elected to leave his hat in the cloakroom of the Officers Mess, a fair thing to be able to expect to do. By the end of the night, when he was going to leave the hat had gone. He had been wearing this since he was 20 years old. he was simply stunned, and we had that 'beam me up Scotty' moment. I am not sure I have felt embarrassment like it, either before or since. Despite an appeal around the station we never had the hat returned, and we lost some very good local Station friends and landowners. The main culprit was a young Fg Off who had been holding. He never answered the 'charges'.

Mmmmm! Good luck with the search for the photos, sadly the elderly chap was willing to give his life for this generation, but someone somewhere will not be willing to give him his memories back.

Thanks to VIProds for bringing this to the public fourm. With the power of PPRuNe I have contacted the Benson MCO/PRO who has asked me to publish the following on behalf of the Station (she does not have a Proon account).
Hopefully this will go someway to helping Alec achieving the response he should have been originally afforded.

:ok:

Edit: email address = *[email protected]*

Not good enough.

Start with an unequivocal apology, rather than an excuse.

Don't use phrases such as 'If anyone believes they have loaned images...' unless you want to imply that Alec and others are somehow suffering from senility.

What is 'the earliest opportunity' supposed to mean? To a 91 year old man in ill health that's not very helpful. At least be accountable to those on whom you depend for contributions. A deadline would be a start.

End by reinforcing your regret for any inconvenience that may have been caused.

Again, rubbish response, but par for the course if the experience of Alec and others is anything to go by. :mad:

TheWizard, good effort, but that Kremlin Communique from whatever an MCO/PRO is was frankly appalling. Totally inadequate in all respects - it's worse than some customer service excuse.

No apology - and the cr@p about 'operational commitments' simply doesn't hold water. Benson had $od all 'operational commitments' back in 2002 and someone (probably the Flt Sgt) totally cocked up.

Tell the woman to damn well get herself a PPRuNe account immediately so that she can tell us what she is doing about this unacceptable state of affairs tomorrow.

A VIP station visit should be arranged personally by the Stn Cdr - this gallant old chap put his neck on the line for his country all those years ago and all he gets is this bland statement? Nonsense - Benson, you screwed up in spades, now sodding well unbugger things!

And whilst you're at it, get the plastic Spitfire repaired - last time I saw it, it was an utter disgrace.

But perhaps symptomatic of today's pitiful excuse for an air force?

Many thanks for your inputs & TheWizard's help in getting the PRO's e-mail address. I drove Alec & his wife to our Aircrew Association Ladies Christmas Luncheon yesterday & while there asked if he would mind me mentioning it on PPRuNe. He didn't mind, but thought it was a lost cause. He obviously didn't realise the PPower of PPRuNe.

I have just 'phoned Alec & he is over the moon whith your support & gave me more details of what he lent them. I am about to e-mail the PRO with the details, so will keep you informed.

The non-commital and bland statement from a representative of the Royal Air Force probably comes from page one of the PR handbook together with "Lessons will be learnt" and "Our thoughts and prayers are with the family"
It is also on a par with any statement issued by Tesco, Morrisons, PC World, or Asda but certainly inferior to Marks and Spencer after all that appears to be what the Royal Air Force is nowadays a multi-cultural, market orientated, profit centre with budget holder responsibilities.
God, how I hate the modern world!!!

Disgrace!
 

What a disgrace!

My father is 91 and an ex spitfire pilot, his pictures and other momentos are a big part of his life.
t
I do hope the RAF get this sorted asap. It would be nice if the pprune members could all chip in and lets send this guy something nice for Xmas!

PB

The Modern World
 

It's fair to say I seriously regret being a member of this so called modern world. Alec has been treated appallingly and deserves infinitely better. A while ago I closed an ex WW2 recce Sqn and sadly put a considerable amount of history into the hands of the RAF to look after, just in case..... When the Sqn was eventually reformed the new team went to get the stuff only to find bits missing with some pretty horrible allegations about where they had gone. Fortunately the valuable pieces had been stored securely elsewhere thanks to a strong, influential Association. We are losing the decent core of everything I loved when I joined the RAF and I really regret it. I will continue to do my bit, all the rest of you who are serving must do yours to try and maintain at least a modicum of the history we have inherited.

If this doesn't warrant a trip for the Outrage Bus then I don't know what does. Escalation anyone?

What about involving some tabloid papers?

Let's give the system one last chance - anyone here have input to CAS' office - preferably direct to CAS himself - or know a man that does ;)?

I expect they're reading it already.

I agree with previous posters - publicly putting the onus back on Alec to get his own loaned property back is disgraceful.

This reads a bit like a 'how not to do PR' nightmare!

My personal view is that if this sat within my area, I would be making a quick phone call to the MOD press office in Main Building, advising them that right now there is the making of a wonderful tabloid story on this website, and that unless something is done PDQ, then the RAF is about to be seriously publicly embarrased and its all its own fault. I would suggest that some fairly quick damage control is needed now, as this is the sort of story that Tabloids love, and will enjoy running (particularly if they can do a 'it woz the sun wot won it' angle).

Rebrief the key people now, get them in over the weekend if needs be to find the items and then get someone suitably (i.e. very) senior to turn up at this gentlemans house and present him with his belongings in person with a full and unreserved apology.

People are always busy, but in my book, anything involving individuals who served us at our time of greatest need goes straight to the top of the 'to do' pile regardless of what else is brewing. We owe them a debt we can never repay, and shabby treatment like this is a disgrace.

Jimlad - agreed. I hope they use this as an example at Staff College / Media Ops cses etc of how not to manage a situation, because frankly it really does tick all the boxes of how not to do it.

Sadly, probably not the first time, certainly won't be the last time, and it's not just the RAF. My grandfather was a sgt in the Paras when they first stood up. I remember my grandmother lent my grandfather's medals back to the Army for a display they were doing in the 80s. Half of them went missing, and she had to do the donkey work with the Medals Office to get them replaced. She was so proud of his service and what he had done for his country, but that one incident was the only thing I know to have rankled her right to the end.

We really do know how to shoot ourselves in the foot sometimes. Then again, if you're going to cock it up, you may as well make it a whopper like this. I used to be the Station Historian at one of my old units, and frankly, it was fantastic getting to talk to the old boys and legitimately sloping off work to host them. But here, it seems to be a bit of a chore. Many of us here may not be able to actively do anything to help reunite Alec with his photos, but buy God VIProds, I think it's fair to say you have our total support in your efforts.

Sadly, I have had a similar experience with many of my father's mementos that were loaned to a squadron at ISK ... I have never ever even had a letter acknowledging anything about them ...
I'm glad I left when I did...

I couldn't agree more... My father and uncle worked for several years to document our family back to 1712. Having seen their dedication I took their research and "reversed it" taking the bare bones and adding "the story" where I could and made a web site from it that documents as much as I can. The absolute best parts are those where family members took the time and effort to document and tell stories of their lives, their parents and their grandparents... All that information that will, in a few short years, be lost. Encourage your older family members to write or record their experiences, find all their photos and write, (gently), on the back who everyone is, where they are and what they were doing.

It might not be important to you, the rest of your family or their kids. But one day one of your descendants will thank you more than you can imagine for keeping such precious artifacts.

All that having been said - Benson needs utterly reaming... They have stolen a families heritage. Shame on them, utter shame!

course_profile, if Benson fail to respond adequately, I won't personally contact the station - but I might well ask a couple of investigative media reporters (one writes for a national daily) to do so.

It'll only take a couple of quick e-mails. However, better to let Benson attempt to sort this mess out first.

But you weren't really interested, were you? You were just stirring....:rolleyes:

How dreadfully sad for this Old Boy, and what utter shame on Benson and the RAF in general.

VIProds
Please pass on my sincerest best wishes to Alec and his Wife and tell him how embarrassed and ashamed many of us are here. It is a sad testimony to the service that this has happened in the first place, but even more so that those involved don't seem too bothered about it! I am truly saddened.

OC Benson - Sir, get your finger out of yopur ar$e, get in your car and go and see Alec and his Wife and give him your personal apology and assurance that you will do everything you can to return his property, DO IT TODAY.

It's called theft at the end of the day, and those responsible should be ashamed.

First Post
 

Firstly, I have been a Prune reader for many years and never felt the need to comment and therefore, never registered - this thread has finally forced my hand.

I have to agree that the failure to take care of this brave airman's property is an utter disgrace. The personnel involved should indeed be ashamed that they did not look after such treasured memoirs. The fact that there were no responses to his request for the return of his personal belongings is inexcuseable.

I also agree that the response of the MCO is not all that it should have been.

Let us be clear on that facts and I know that I will be told if I've got this wrong!

- The Benson Team in 2002 were leant personnel belongings for display.
- They were not returned to the individual when requested.
- They cannot be found.
- His requests for them to be returned, directed to the CO, were not answered.
- The MCO, through an intermediary, posts a poor response.

As far as I can see the 2002 Team have messed up in spades and the current MCO hasn't helped. Let's not blame the current Benson CO for his predessors appalling error, as I understand it, he's only just arrived at Benson. By the power of PPrune, I'm guessing that the CO now knows about this issue - I think he deserves a chance to address the situation before he is hawled across the coals for something he didn't do.

As demanded, the RAF Benson PRO/MCO has indeed got herself a PPRuNe account.

For those who took umbrage at the message posted on my behalf, I apologise; however, without all the facts I was not in a position to offer a public apology or give a deadline as to when the artefacts could be located without first undertaking some research (which was instigated immediately).

To hopefully reassure everyone slightly, I can confirm that we have been in contact with VIProds directly and, on receipt of the details of the items, an urgent message was sent out to all parties on Station that have anything to do with the collation of the historical archives. One of our most knowledgable Station history experts may already have located some of the items and is in the process of clarifying that they are the correct items. I will also be liaising with the Station Commander this afternoon to request that a personal apology on behalf of the Station is sent as a matter of urgency to Alec, and we have already apologised to VIProds for the failures of the Station in the past.

If there is anyone else who has previously donated or loaned anything to RAF Benson that they would like to recover, please get in contact with me and I will do my best to help. I cannot guarantee that all items will be located but I can guarantee that we will do our best to find them and return them to their original owners as quickly as possible.

At least the chap to whom the memorabilia belonged appears to be acting with dignity.
Righteous indignation, whilst well intended, is a poor look gentlemen.

Those who CAN do something, do it, quietly and correctly.
Those of you who THINK you can ( but really can't ), watch from the sidelines. I doubt Alec wants his belongings returned in other people's baggage. :(

I am worried again, I agree with BEags.

We need to really embarrass them into doing the right thing, if they're unwilling to take the hint.

The Services do NOT need adverse publicity at this time, especially as the rank and file of the populace have much more of an idea what's going on and sympathy with them.

Perhaps it'll be explained in a soon-to-be-released Wikileak . . .

I heard a very nasty story a couple of years after the Falklands War. Some civilian ATCOs visited Yeovilton to do research for a book they were planning and allegedly one of them stole important documentation relating to the FAA's role in the war.
There are some very nasty people about, particularly when it comes to 'spotting' types.

As for this sad story, station commanders are not gods although they may like to think so. If someone has OC Benson's name and number then ring him. Don't pussyfoot around with minions.

In 1991 while my son was on his first Incirlik detachment,sadly his favourite young cousin died. My brother was anxious that my No1 son was immediately informed and given the chance to come home for his funeral. I thought I'm not buggering about,so picked up his phone and rang Coltishall Staish direct, refusing the offer to speak to any PAs. He had no problem and assured me he would contact OC 41 straightaway. Thanks Phil D'A...!

I've watched Prune with some interest, from the sidelines, for many years but, the perceived threats in this thread have driven me to register and voice an opinion for once.

Clearly the original receiver of the memrobillia messed up by not looking after this fine gentleman's posesions and then the hierarchy messed up (assuming they received the letter) by not answering his querry back in 2002. Then the current MCO has not helped matters with their (supposed) post on this thread.

I think it's fair to say that the Station has been given a 'heads up' of the issue. Assuming the information about this has got through to the CO (who I understand took over this month), let him deal with it without threats of media leaks and inappropriate Directives to action.

Let's have a little decorum dear people.

I fear that I might have initiated a ticking time bomb, here. I was only hoping that someone might be able to help Alec retrieve his belongings & thanks to PPRuNe, we have been pointed in the right direction.

I have just received an e-mail from the RAF Benson PRO, who has profusely apologised for the lack of communication in the past. She has given the details that I sent her "to the team that are currently looking after the Heritage Centre & the Station Historian to look at this as a matter of urgency".

It might be of interest to know that Alec had to fly from St Eval in Cornwall to Norfolk as Military Intelligence had heard that the Germans were testing a new rocket aeroplane thingy on the Baltic Coast at a place called Peenemunde (that rings a bell!). Once Alec refuelled, he had to head up the North Sea in a North Easterly direction till he reached Denmark then turn onto an Easterly direction towards the Baltic, where he was able to photograph Peenemunde. The journy was further than flying to Berlin & the round trip was about 1,000nm. Alec's only concern was that he had a "numb bum" after sitting in a crampt Spitfire cockpit for nearly 5 hours.

Brian 48nav

In conversations with staff at the FAA Museum in 1978 I learned that it had not been not unknown until then for the Head of the Navy's Historic Branch to gather up material donated by private individuals to help with his work.

I am pretty sure it was never returned but got mixed up with other material that was then passed on after his death to a worthy repository albeit not the FAA Museum:hmm:

Lending material is quite another matter though.

VIProds,

I know this isn't the right place or time, but since when has that stopped anyone.

It would be great if some of Alecs story could be added to the "gaining an RAF brevet during WWII" thread. It's a fascinating thread and has a great following.

Of course there is something more important going on in his life at the moment but if time allows his contribution would be valued.

I got my 88 year old grandmoter to sit down in front of a video camera and got her to talk about her life (seeing a Zepplin coming down in flames, children being brought out of a school after it was bombed, Great war ending, Second war blitz etc and more mundane family stuff like their first car) I just wish I had done the same with my grandfather (Steam powered submarines / M2 aircraft carrying sub, China being invaded by the Japs, Malta / Russian convoys). All that history witnessed by 2 people...yes get it recorded while you can!

edited to add...

My grandmother lent the Submarine museum a load of my grandfather's photos from his time in Subs. She said they could borrow them to copy and then they were to be returned to her. A year later I wrote a strong letter on her behalf asking if she was ever going to get the photos back. A month later they were returned with letter saying that they had a backlog of items to copy and shortages of staff...etc...etc...

This sort of thing, valuables or personal property going missing, seems all too common. Do we know the fate of crates full of Squadron silver once held at Quedgely? Where is is it now with Quedgley a housing estate? There were some very nice David Shepherd original paintings in the Mess at Eastleigh, in the 60s, where are they I wonder? I understand that the Government has a collection of fine art for adorning offices and a great deal of it was missing when a check was last done. Wasn't there some mystery about the disappearance of some Wilkinson Trophy/Prize swords some time back?

I hope this gentlemen gets his mementoes and property back and I am sure he will not be too keen to lend them out again.

BensonPRO, thank you very much indeed for your quick work and for the personal interest which your Stn Cdr has taken in ensuring that this brave old chap will soon be reunited with his precious historical items.

It would be tremendous if something special could be arranged to make the reunion a particularly special day for Alec, although clearly your ongoing operational activities may make this rather difficult.

Perhaps the most sensible response so far.
Just to clarify, there was no 'supposed' about the post from the MCO, it was a direct quote from her which she requested I reprint as a favour as she did not have a PPRuNe account at the time.
As the MCO now has her own voice on here I have no need to act as an intermediary, so would be grateful if I didn't receive any more PMs about what 'I' could do about the situation!! Don't shoot the messenger people!!
Hopefully the gentleman and his mementos can be reunited in good time.
Regards.

BensonPRO, the initial (second hand) response was very poor, but I agree with BEagle - and credit very much where it's due - that rapid and positive follow-up has made up for it. I do hope Alec gets everything back soon. All the better if circumstances do allow it to be presented in some special way.

Best wishes to Alec, to you, and to those from the Station - particularly those currently in harm's way.

I have sat here on holiday in Spain reading this thread with utmost horror that a Force which I hold in the highest respect has acted in such a way. I have tears in my eyes that anyone should have received such treatment.
Perhaps the comment about the plastic Spitfire sums up what a "first rate" Service has now been reduced to, but the personnel I had believed were better than that.
I do hope that by the time I am back in the UK, this dreadful situation has been satisfactorily resolved.
BensonPRO, we are watching what you can do.

1. Alec standing by his Spitfire

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e7...3/aaaAlec1.jpg

2. BBMF PR flypast at Alec's 90th Birthday party.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e7...tFlypast-1.jpg

3. Alec (on the Left) & Jim at the Veterans Parade.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e7...aaaAlecJim.jpg

4. Painting of Alec's Spitfire.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e7...ecPainting.jpg

Does this mean they have been succesfully recovered?