This thread has been running now for nigh on 10 weeks without any sign of those documents. There now needs to be a formal SIB investigation into how those documents went missing.

Whilst that investigation is under way the Gate Guardian at Benson should, as BEagle has suggested, be renovated and then it should be repainted in the markings of Alec's Spitfire as an act of expiation.

My own experiences as a militaria/medal dealer led me to have a healthy cynicism about museums, and their cavalier attitude to security of the items in their care. On at least two occasions I was the unfortunate purchaser of items which I subsequently learned had been stolen from a local museum, in both cases by volunteer workers. On another occasion a friend who had been the CO of an ATC squadron had given items from the squadron to the local town museum when the squadron disbanded. When that museum was closed as a cost-cutting move by the council he enquired about what was to happen to said items, only to discover that they had "disappeared". I am not saying that this is what has happened to vortexadminman's father's medals, but he should not hesitate to report the matter to the police should they not come to light soon - this may shake the RAF Museum up a bit.

Caz, I know someone who should be able to get the contact details for the SIB and I will PM you them tomorrow so that you can set the ball rolling.

Good suggestion about the gate-guardian. Beagle was absolutely correct about it needing a re-furb - an anhedral tail-plane???! Beagle is so right about some things. Pity his comment about Benson's operational commitments at that time was shy of the mark like many of his offerings about the rotary world.

Hopefully, somebody at Benson will manage to source Alec's items soon; the lack of progress is ominous.

WC

No longer a sticky? Why?

CAZ

If you want this bloke to get his stuff back, why would you want the SIB to investigate?

A bit harsh.
 

Xenolith, I do hope that's just near the knuckle banter.

Without Care

I am not sure that the SIB would take much notice of someone who left the Service 15 years ago and is resident in France.

I believe that it is now incumbent on the Stn Cdr at RAF Benson to contact the SIB and request that they instigate a full investigation.

Think dropping a few hints to some magazines and newspapers will help?, after all, a tabloid newspaper knocking on the station commanders door may get him off his butt and get it sorted, same too for their local MP

The Local MP is already involved - see post 77.

Firstly, I support this attempt 100%.

BUT . . . what reaction do you expect from an outfit that can do something as crass as tell people they're sacked by email?

I KNOW that wasn't done here, but it's the whole shebang, nobody gives a **** about one old bloke's memorobilia and THAT just sums up how far we've sunk. We get the mouth-music every November and I remember Bliar lining up with the rest placing his wreath on the Cenotaph, but what do YOU reckon, does he care? The evidence seems to point elsewhere.

It's a travesty and I'm disgusted. But frankly, that's my problem, because the people concerned here won't give a **** UNLESS they ARE called to account.

Best of luck

UPDATE
 

Had a Msg from RAF Benson stating that the History Team have completed a thorough search of all the archives & haven't been able to locate Alec's items.

The Station Commander has requested that Alec & myself be invited to meet the Commanding Officer Base Support Wing "it is hoped that a face to face meeting will alow us to resolve the matter more effectively" ? They would also ensure that there is sufficient time for a brief tour of the areas of the Station where Alec was based.

I spoke with Alec & he indicated that he would love to revisit Benson. I asked Alec's lovely wife, Audrey if she would like to take my place, but she insisted that I accompany Alec as I would be in a much better position to describe details & explain things to him, because of his failing eyesight.

I wrote back to Benson & accepted their invitation & asked if they could arrange transportation. I felt that a return car journey would mean that Alec (who would be 92 by then) would be stuck in the car for six or seven hours & that would be too long for him. I said that we lived only a few miles from Humberside Airport (nudge, nudge, wink, wink). Benson said that they could not supply air transport, but kindly offered to send a rail warrant.

I went on the British Rail website & found out that the return journey from Cleethorpes (our local Station) to Didcot Parkway would take a total of nine & a half hours & we would have to change trains a total of six times, so that was totally unaceptable. I have asked that, if I was able to arrange for a private plane to take us down there would they give the pilot permission to land ?

I have just had a reply back from Nikki the PRO, who has been fantastic throughout this issue. She said that it would not be a problem to land a plane at RAF Benson. The pilot of the aircraft needs to ensure the necessary paperwork & arrangements are in place & can be completed with just a couple of days notice.

So all I have to do now is find a kind pilot who is current, that can fly us from Lincolnshire to Oxfordshire & back sometime after April !!

There might be some at Cranwell.:O

Duncs:ok:

Perhaps Stn Cdr Benson could ask OC 32 Sqn if they could fit a round trip in on a Training Sortie? This would perhaps allow Alec's Wife to accompany him as well.

I was thinking about 45 Sqn - if there are no ME pilots to train...

I think that the King Air is quite nice inside, if not as quick as a 125.

Duncs:ok:

Duncs

You would need a rear crew member, properly trained in evacuation drills in the "unlikely event of an emergency", as well as the pilots. Given the age of the Pax it would be advisable that such a crew member was also well trained in first aid.

I think that the Station Commander and the PRO at Benson have done as much as they can. Using a Military aircraft to ferry a civilian to visit a Station would be a complete misappropriation of these assets. This would be akin to a Royal using a Chinook to go to a stag party. Of course that would never happen.

KF

If you read my posts again you will note that I specifically suggested using Training Hours - which would be flown anyway. What I have suggested would be an ideal training sortie for new Cabin Staff as well as the Flight Crew.

The RAF in which I spent 31 years of my life was an RAF that was a "can do" Service where you looked for ways to do the job - not for obscure reasons that seemed to "possibly suggest" that there was some obscure "Health and Safety" regulation which might prohibit such a course of action.

Please enlighten me - how would you carry out the "Dams Raid" at 60 ft at night against a defended target whilst showing lights in the light of current "Health and Safety" legislation?

You'd have to go in quickly, while the German flak crews were still completing the paperwork for releasing the ammo to the gun crews....

Are you seriously comparing flying an old man to Benson with the Dambusters raids? In this day and age any such raid would be carried out using smart bombs.

Okay what would you do if the weather wasn't suitable to fly the sortie? Keep postponing the visit until it was suitable whilst keeping up a lot of valuable assets and people to facilitate one visit on standby?

Please don't presume that the RAF of today doesn't have a can do attitude as you insult those on operations today in Afghanistan.

Benson had no trouble taking 15 spacies on a Merlin for a day, including a trip through the London heli-lanes, and some spacies from Hampshire were cabbied to Hendon and back in a Wokka not so long ago.

The Dark Blue seems to have a better understanding of how to read/operate within the rules. Perhaps they could help ;)

Well that is what happens on Air Cadet camps. Air Cadets go flying, just like they do on the AEF's or at the many gliding schools around the country.

Maybe you could contact the dark blue and ask for assistance.

a a

I think "kreuger flap" is in the "Do you want the 5 minute argument or the 10 minute argument" mode. If you look at his posts it seems to always be the aggressive reaction no matter what has been said.

This is going WAY OFF topic gents. Please refrain.

"You would need a rear crew member, properly trained in evacuation drills in the unlikely event of an emergency".


I have got the very person cazatou. In his time, Alec made a total of five crash landings, none of which were his fault & he walked away uninjured each time. You know about his Spitfire being hit by flak, over Brest. What I didn't know until I read his Log Book, was that the Spitfire was a complete "write off". He was rushed to Hospital, but was released uninjured & was flying the very next day.

Before he joined the PRU, he was posted to 224 Sqdn & did submarine hunting over the Atlantic in Hudsons. On one sortie, when he was loaded up with depth charges, Alec was just getting up to air speed when his port engine cut. He guided the Hudson off the runway so that the rest of the stream could take off.

No one had told him that they had dug a deep trench beside the runway to lay cables. The port wheel dropped into the trench, which spun the Hudson around, so that starboard wheel did likewise.

Alec looked round to tell the crew to bale out, but the aircraft was empty ! His comment was "they didn't stand on ceremonty". I don't blame them with live weapons on board.

VIProds

Alec should patent his "good luck charm".

I hope that he makes it to Benson and I trust that the experience will go some way towards ameliorating the loss of his Personal Memorabilia. Please pass on my best wishes.

I'm surprised the flying club at Benson have not arranged to go and collect you guys.

Air Police

And I'm surprised that you havn't offered to stump up the cost of the Benson Flying Club stepping up to the plate.

WTF does have to do with the Benson Flying Club?:ugh:

All they've done so far is fail to find this old vet's property. I would think there would hardly be anyone (civvy or military) who would find reason to object to Stn Cdr RAF Benson using training hours to fetch this veteran. I'm surprised he hasn't offered this already.

(Even Colonel Gaddafi might have done this, and yet look how popular he is).

ShyTorque

Thank you for your support.

I hope that this elderly Gentleman can be re-united with his lost memories but I feel that is a forlorn hope. The RAF should spare no endeavour to ensure that his attendance at the reunion is memorable.

Seems to be a Benson-wide attitude, this.

Sounds like bollocks to me. Flying a WW2 spitfire pilot as a gesture of compensation is absolutely not a problem. It simply requires the Stn Cdr (or AOC) to auth it.

Looking North

If you mean that everybody at Benson shares my view that its nothing to do with the Benson Flying Club then you would be right.

If however, you mean that the authorities at Benson couldn't give a toss about the stuff thats missing then I think that you are wrong.

If you feel that the authorities at Benson owe anybody who posts on this forum an explanation then, you would be absolutly wrong!

xenolith

I would certainly expect that VIProds could reasonably, as Alec's Spokesman, expect to receive an explanation that he could pass on to his elderly friend.

CAZ

He has, post #95 refers.

xenolith

Go back and read that post again and work out how many times they expect that elderly Gentleman to change trains on his return journey and the length of time that he will have to travel each way. If his Wife accompanies him then the problem will be compounded.

The major reason that such a long return journey is being undertaken is that RAF Benson failed to look after precious relics that they had borrowed. It is incumbent on RAF Benson to make suitable travel arrangements for such an elderly couple and to ensure that their journey is as comfortable and stress free as possible.

Perhaps you should let the magma cool down?

Caz,

It may not suit you but the Station Commander has, in my opinion, done all that can be reasonably expected of him under the circumstances.

Magma?????????

Xenolith

Chambers Dictionary:-

Xenolith - " A fragment of rock of extraneous origin which has been incorporated in magma".

Now "Cazatou" was the most forward English outpost in SW France at the start of the Hundred Years War!! I like to maintain Traditions.

xenolith,

Notwithstanding we may not have all the information, my opinion differs from yours. Obviously, you are entitled to your opinion; however, I am inclined to think that Alec deserves a little more than appears to have been offered.

Duncs:ok:

Caz

Chambers........How very secondary modern! Now in the OED:-

Xenolith – “Stone or rock occurring in a system to which it does not belong"

OED was, I believe, the official RAF dictionary in your day; I too try to maintain traditions.:)

Enough........ please;)

Duncs

OK :ok: