No unfortunatly, I filmed these as "cut aways" when I was filming Alec's talk. I thought that it might help to put a face to the name, also a reminder for RAF Benson that we are still waiting.

THIS.............is a sticky until those precious items are found!


PPP

PPP, a very long round of :D

Well done PprunePop.

Folks, remember to check out the 'brevet' thread for amazing flying tales which will definitely give you a numb bum if you try and read them all in one go!

Here's hoping Alec gets his stuff back sharpish, it's already been too long.

Not wanting to undermine the theme of this unfortunate thread, but the painting above is not as described.
http://www.directart.co.uk/mall/images/dhm2284.jpg
The Scenic Route by the late Alan S Holt.
A 225 Squadron TAC/R pair returning from Bologna over the Apennines, January 1945. EN199, The Malta Spitfire is being flown by F/O A.S. Holt (the artist) with F/O Kurt Taussig weaving.

Alan was a personal friend and mentor and this was one of his final paintings before he passed.

Sorry for any misunderstanding TM. Alec was telling me about the painting while I was filming it. I have gone back to the Master Tape & Alec was saying, that he also knew Alan Holt, he was an art Master at Market Raisen, but was also a member of the North Lincs ACA. Alec said that he would buy a print if Alan could put his Sqdn letters (FT) on the side as it reminded him of a similar flight that he & another pilot made. Alan said, of course he would, so Alec has got No6 of a limited edition print, which would appear to be even more unique as Alan changed the markings for Alec. If you check the two paintings, you will note the difference.

My late father-in-law had a very different experience at the FAA Museum at Yeovilton. A Swordfish TAG who served on small escort carriers ,mostly in the North Atlantic, he was treated like royalty by the staff there, who asked to borrow and scan his logbooks for their records. He was amazed that they would be interested in what he thought was mundane stuff, but they explained that by cross-referencing crew details they could help other families researching their serving forebears locate who was where, when. He did have a whole page signed off by one S-Lt Laurence Olivier (target towing, Worthy Down, Albacore). He got his logbooks back promptly, and a memorable Taranto Night dinner as well. Thanks FAA!

Not a flyer myself but long time lurker...

i have that picture too signed by Alan who i had the absolute pleasure to know since i was about 10 (37 now).

He was a true hero of mine and i still see his wife every year in scotland.

Hope the stuff gets found.

I trust that "Benson PRO" is going to issue an update prior to knocking off for the Festive Season.

Won't do any harm to ask them by PM!

Sent five minutes ago!!

Caz,

I think Benson Main shut up shop last Friday so the PM route (well said PP) might produce the response you require.

Happy Christmas

WC

With all due respect, why would the Benson PRO come on here to update a load of complete strangers?
The matter has been highlighted is now between Benson, Alec and VIProds and I am sure the latter will update us in due course if he sees fit.
In the meantime, Happy Christmas wherever you are.

The Wizard

If you go back to the original post on this thread and read that again, you will see that the "normal channels" have been well and truly clogged for many years.

Alec has so far (despite the best efforts of the Third Reich) exceeded the Biblical "three score years and ten" by some 30%. Time is of the essence if Alec is to be reunited with those documents that show exactly what he contributed to the Allied War effort whilst flying an unarmed aircraft over Enemy Occupied Territory. Remember that those documents were placed in the care of the RAF following a formal request from an RAF Unit.

One has to ask if RAF Benson, having failed to locate the missing items, have placed the investigation in the hands of the SIB. The longer this goes on the more likely that it is not a case of "lost property" but rather a case of theft for personal gain.

'With all due respect' Wizard, I'm with cazatou on this one - and I'm bending towards his last paragraph.

Kreuger flap

The documents were placed in the safekeeping of RAF Benson at the request of that Unit many years ago. Since they were placed in the safekeeping of that Unit they have either:-

1. Been Lost
2. Been Destroyed
3. Been Purloined

If they were lost it should have been reported.

If they were destroyed there should be a record.

There is apparently no report and no record.

Just by way of an update. RAF Benson PRO e-mailed to say that they have not uncovered anything yet, but "we have made contact with the individual that was responsible for the Anniversary Celebration & he is assisting out Station History Staff in their research".

Alec 'phoned me to say that he had received a letter from RAF Benson, who requested more detailed information on his property. We arranged for me to go over to his house next week so that we can make an itemised list & try & correlate it with his log book.

VIProds,

I hope the letter also containing a grovelling apology, or is the intention only to apologise if and when Benson discover that they still have some of the material that was LENT to them so long ago....!!

VIProds,

Please could you check your PMs ref your last post.

with thanks

WC

Seeing as someone has seen the need to delete my perfectly civil and logical reply to Castazou then I shall say no more except to say that by selective censorship you have proved my point about this thread. An explanation would have been nice but there you go. Sad really.
I don't expect this post to last long either:hmm:

As the originator of 'Gaining a pilot's brevet in W.W2 I have P.Md VIProds. and asked him if it would be possible to post to the thread any details and photos of his father's service career.
I can personally assure him that much interest will be shown in every post he makes, by cheerful and very interested readers.
I would also point out I am sure his father would be interested in print outs of some of the contributions made by other wartime pilots.

cliffnemo

Who is this imposter "Castazou"?

Let's hope it's an improvement.

Simple mistake that any Shawbury Graduate pre-97 could make.

Cliff, Alec is not my Father. He is a friend & we both belong to the North Lincs Branch of the Aircrew Association. I have started filming speakers (with their permission) that we have at the monthly Branch meetings so that the Branch can archive the DVD's for posterity. Once Alec's story is completed, I will be sending three DVD's to the ACA archives at Elvington.

I have just started to read your thread for the first time, so can see many entertaining hours ahead of me. I will be going over to Alec's later in the week & will see if he is happy with me transcribing his story for "Gaining a pilot's brevet in WWII".

P.S. My father was actually an RSM in the Cameron Highlanders, I am sure his kilt flew on occasions, but he certainly didn't.:eek:

Sadly,
I have to say even the RAF Museum is as bad. My fathers medals went in there for a display in the coastal command section. After a year I went to see how it all was, after asking to see where his medals were I got blanked by the guys there ( not blaming them at all) I filled in the request for information, I emailed them, I phoned quite a few times..........and yep you guessed it............. now't response.

The worst thing is my mother who is still alive keeps asking where his medals are in their display! so when she asks me how are they doing(she does not live in UK ) I am trying to say all is good when in fact it is fecking not!!! I can feel a trip down there soon....................

Best of luck to this man who deserves better

I know it's a much smaller scale, but when a guide at Tangmere museum, ANY kit or memorabilia loaned or donated was signed in with a simple form, for both the museum and the donator / lender's records.

They also receive a nice little letter of thanks shortly afterwards; if a 99% volunteer group can manage it, one's blood fairly boils that well paid 'professionals' actually in the force being commerorated can't do a proper job...

I visited Alec today & he was able to give me more detailed information about his belongings, that RAF Benson borrowed, but did not return. I have now e-mailed that information to Benson's PRO, so hope that this will help them in their search.

XV1979 Alec did not recognise your Grandfather's name, but said that Mount Farm was a satalite airfield, so sometimes he would fly some of the PRU pilots over there in an Anson, so they might well have rubbed sholders.

I have just received an e-mail from one of the Directors of a Defence Company in New Zealand who specialize in UAV's. They have purchased a 90% scale size, all metal replica of a Spitfire. They hope to receive it in June & it will take about a year to build & paint it.

They will name the Spitfire "Constance Babington Smith" after the famous PRU Photo Interpreter, who discovered the V1 ramps at Peenemunde.

They are going to paint the aircraft in PRU colours & markings & have asked if I would find out from Alec what he felt his most significant Mission was & they will paint the same aircraft markings on their Spitfire.

I 'phoned Alec last night & he thought that being hit by flak over Brest was his most significant. I can't blame him, flying blind for 170NM not knowing if your engine would last out ! I have seen that enty in Alec's Log Book & have arranged to go over to his house so that we can identify what markings his Spitfire would have displayed.

What a fantastic thought that Alec's bravery will be remembered in this way. Thank you Hawkeye UAV NZ.

VIProds,

I presume there has been no update on Benson finding and returing the items that Alec lent them - or no doubt you would have told us?


Given that this matter was first brought to the attention of Benson staff on 9 Dec 2010, some 49 days ago, even allowing for the Christmas break I would hardly say that Benson appear to be pulling out all the stops on this one....


Of course if there have been developments not mentioned on this thread?

Biggus

You are correct, I have heard nothing back since sending detailed information on Alec's property at the beginning of January. I have e-mailed RAF Benson's PRO & asked for an update.

Will keep you informed.

This thread has now been running for 50 days with apparently no progress whatsoever in finding those precious documents.

Is it, perhaps, now time to place the matter in the hands of the SIB so that a formal investigation with evidence given on oath can be instituted? Such a course of action may "jog the memories" of those who are called upon to testify in such an investigation.

Has this matter, which brings no credit whatever on our Service, been the subject of a Parliamentary Question?

Good thinking Wander00, Alec did ask his local PM if she could follow it up. She was one of "Blair's Babes" & didn't want to know. There now has been a change of "spectrum", so I will chase this up & see if there is any change.Thank you.

Update
 

I've been out of the loop for a bit, with a virulent form of "man flu". I sent an e-mail to Alec's new MP, but as yet, no reply. RAF Benson's PRO sent me a message to say that they are still working on recovering Alec's possessions & have also located the person that organised the 60th Annaversary Reunion so are talking to him. Thanks to cazatou, I have also witten to the MP who's Constituency includes RAF Benson & asked if he would pursue this matter & get it resolved once & for all.

Just to bring this back to the top - I thought this thread was a "Sticky".

Me too.........

On a similar vein, did anyone watch the Antiques Roadshow last night?

A 1st World War pilot had loaned his WW1 DFC medal to a museum in the midlands as they had none on display, the museum took a direct hit during WW2 and the building with all its contents were lost, they painstakingly went through all the rubble and devastation and recovered the clip with part of the original ribbon still attached (horizontal bars not diagonal) and fwd'd the remains of his medal onto him....... he had a replacement issued with the later ribbon, but still in part had his original.

One marvels during WW2 in amongst the terrible bombing that was going on, they had he tenacity and forethought to recover the last remains of his precious medal and return them to him......then compare that to RAF Benson.............:mad:

It was old chap - a bientot . . .

Credit where due. It was Leeds Museum. Got my attention too. :ok:

She should definately be named and shamed. Mind you, with that attitude, she probably isn't an MP any more.

Just to keep this thread circling RAF Benson --

I think the 'change of spectrum' remark indicates that she's now an 'ex babe'!!