Mukiwa aka Damian,

OneFifty and, more importantly, Group Captain Recruiting do not know what the RAF's recruiting policy will be in 2.5 years time. Dig in - study hard; learn more about the UK's Armed Forces, the UK's political system, the EU, NATO, past and present conflicts involving UK Forces - get used to reading the Daily Telegraph/Times/RAF News off the Internet. As Whenurhappy stated, don't take no for an answer....

OneFifty, give the kid a break, as a potential aviator he already scores high on Foresight - he's asking questions, not buying an airline ticket.

S4G

OASC Bulletin 7
 

During this bulletin, we would like to make a brief statement about substance misuse and the criminal conviction policy in the RAF.

Some of the subjects posted so far are fairly dry but nonetheless form essential reading and base knowledge to aid progression through the selection process. During the next few bulletins, we will start to look at the selection process from start to finish from the view point of an imaginary individual applying for pilot.

Substance Misuse

Substance misuse is a general term that covers the misuse of drugs, solvents and anabolic steroids. The short, medium and long-term effects of substance misuse can have a damaging impact on an individual’s mental and physical fitness and health, even when the misuse has ceased. Consequently, it constitutes a direct threat both to the operational effectiveness of the Armed Forces and to the security and safety of Service personnel and, potentially, the civilians they protect. Misuse of drugs by Service personnel also damages the reputation and standing of the Armed Forces. For these reasons the misuse of drugs, solvents and anabolic steroids is not tolerated within the Armed Forces and personnel caught misusing these substances whilst in the RAF will be discharged. The Armed Forces recognize, however, that drug, solvent and steroid misuse is increasingly common in civilian life, particularly among the young, and that individuals may have misused drugs in the past. Criminal convictions for trafficking or supply of any class of drug will remain a bar to entry to the Services. However, disclosure of drug misuse will not necessarily debar a candidate from entry to the Service; acceptance or rejection will depend on the circumstances of the substance misuse and the candidate’s attitude towards the RAF’s policy. Evidence of the attitude will be obtained, in part, by the frequency of the use and the class and type of drug, solvent or steroid that has been misused.

Convictions

All applicants for service in the RAF will be required to declare previous convictions, in line with the guidance contained within the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974. This Act limits the declaration at the application stage to ‘unspent’ convictions except for those applicants for service in the ‘conviction-free’ Branches/Trades who must declare all previous convictions, spent or unspent. In addition, all candidates must declare unspent Anti-Social Behaviour Orders and those in the 'conviction free’ Branches/Trades must also declare Formal Police Cautions and Fixed Penalties. The following branches and trades fall into the conviction-free category: OSB (Prov), Legal, Chaplain, Medical, Dental, Nursing, MSO, PEdO, RAFP.

For more information regarding any of these areas highlighted, please contact your AFCO and they will be able to give you more detailed information regarding specific cases.

Please note that, although OASC will endeavour to answer generic questions that arise, we will not be engaging or commenting on individual cases. In those cases, the individual is advised to contact their nearest AFCO who will be able to deal with any queries. All information published is for information only. Information regarding a career in the RAF can be found at http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers

I know he is only asking questions and I am giving him answers. I do not mean to be hard on him. Yes he sounds promising but I am just being honest with him. Of course, the situation may change in the future but, and this is only my personal opinion, it won’t be changing in the near future.

CaptainKing, I am sorry if I came across as being harsh with you, this was not my intention. I only wished to inform you of the situation as it stands at the moment. As S4G said, study hard in the areas he states, and maybe in the future, your age permitting, you never know. Good luck.

Given our young hero has already shown a burning ambition to fly commercial and a definite positive interest in the SAAF, the RAF might, to some cynics, to be next on a list.

I've heard rumours that the anthropometric requirements for Pilot/WSO may be changing due to the introduction of the Hawk T2. Does anybody know if these rumours are true?

Leadership question
 

When asked to define leadership at a commissioning Board interview what would you reply?

Hey guy, thanks for the responses. I've had a think about this and in my mind I rationalise combat as follows. In a dog fight it is kill or be killed which is basic survival so I'd have no problem with this. If I was dropping a bomb on an enemy target and the sovereignty of the UK was at risk then again, I'd have no problem with this. However, I'm not sure how to rationalise dropping a bomb on a Taliban target - I know they are thought to be responsible for worldwide terrorist attacks but it seems difficult to rationalise (what I mean is that the sovereignty of the UK or my life is not directly at risk). How do pilots who are serving in Afghanistan rationalise this?

I still think you need to fill in an application form and submit it before refining your big interview answers. It just seems to be a good order to do things in.

ElS - Don't spend too much time second-guessing the Qs.

They want to see you, not your interpretation of what you think they want to see/hear.

LHR - It probably won't come out in that form. They are much more likely to ask about a situation where you showed leadership, and how you dealt with the issues than ask you for a dictionary definition of a concept that people have written books about.

Fleet Air Arm........joining
 

Just wondering if anyone could answer a few questions that I have on a potential career in the FAA.

1: Is the FAA more or less competitive than the RAF?
2: What sort of aptitude tests would you recommend that I take beforehand to give me even the most basic of ideas of where I'm at?
3: What sort of maths do I need? Is Speed Distance Time the highest level of maths needed or is it exponentially higher?
4: Fundamentally how hard is it to join in your own opinion? Is it a pipedream for most?

regards



P.s I'm 20 not 29, I just threw down any date when I registered here :)

The Dark Blues..............
 

.......................everytime.

You will not regret it.

Good Luck.

TN

If your belt unbuckles quickly, go FAA.....



....If not, and you want to be among the best, then RAF it has to be.

Some googling and looking on the student room forums will easily answer all of those questions. Well maybe not the first one, I don't recall seeing any statistics but for example if you were interested in fast jet statistically you'd have a higher chance in the RAF.

Maths need to be mostly SDT but very fast and efficient. Taking aptitude tests beforehand is pointless as none will emulate the official one. The only preparation you can do really is lots of maths, multitasking and maybe hand-eye -coordination etc playing games/using a joystick. The bottom line is that a tonne of preparation won't do much use if you really don't have the innate skill-set.

Does anyone have any up to date figures for RAF and RN aircrew recruitment? (just for my own interest). It's irrelevant though really you've either got it (and are willing to put in the effort) or you don't, don't let statistics decide.

I don't agree with this "you've got it or you've not", there has been a lot of science into brain training which has proven a number of times you can improve your mental abilities.

Have you done the aptitude tests Aero? Having gained competitive scores for every branch after doing a lot of maths preparation I'd certainly say that maths practice helps and is something that you can easily "train" to perform better at.

However a large amount of the aptitude you just couldn't practice without sitting the test itself multiple times. I used a Nintendo DS "brain training" game during my preparation and played a flight sim game with a joystick etc which I certainly would recommend if you don't have flying experience as visualising objects from different perspectives (such as planes) and reading instruments does feature in the testing.

Yeah I would agree with that, it may be very hard to find an exercise that would help you improve the particular skills the RN/RAF are looking for.

Anyway... I heard they just do this test at the test centre :}

Aircrew Officer Aptitude Test : Careers : Royal Navy

FAA may well be more competitive for pilot entry than the RAF. About 15-20 months ago a Ppruner scored 120 on pilot aptitude and was unable to make it into the FAA (130 is a realistic min score), but got into the RAF. The actual pass score is 112, by the way. Anything below 125 is looking dodgy for the FAA, though there have been a couple of 118 P scores through to BRNC in the last couple of years.

See thats the problem. I would rather join the RAF, however my eyesight is -0.25 (the lowest fecking amount of short sightedness that you can get) and the RAF does not allow ANY, so unfortunately it is ruled out.

I'm serious about a flying career and the FAA seems like a logical choice. I was looking at the AAC, but apparently you don't have much of a career with them before you are moved away from the actual "flying"

OASC Bulletin 8
 

Over the next few weeks, we will be taking a journey through the entire application and selection process from the Armed Forces Careers Office (AFCO) to, in this case, starting Initial Officer Training (IOT). During the journey, we will try to capture as many of the items that we have already submitted in order to contextualize what we have written. Since the publication of this piece the Boarding Process programme has changed. However, the essence of the journey is unchanged and therefore has not been edited.

The Background

The journey starts with an imaginary person, called John, who has just turned 25 years old. He has 10 GCSEs grades A-C (B in Maths), 3 A-Levels grades A-C and a 2:ii degree in Sports Science. John left university at age 21 and has since worked in a department store in his hometown. He applied to the RAF as a pilot just over 2 years ago and, although producing solid aptitude scores, didn’t achieve the standard required in the Exercise Phase of the selection process. Therefore, during his performance review, he was told that he needed to go away and work on his confidence and problem solving skills. To achieve these aims, he was advised to join the Police Specials or a First Response Ambulance Team to help build his confidence around adults and, to improve his problems solving skills, practise distance, speed, distance calculations and try to think more ‘big picture’. However, he was also told that a future application for pilot would not be possible because he would be unable to enter IOT before his 24th birthday; this was disappointing news and caused him to lose interest in a future application.

However, 2 years on, John noticed on the RAF Careers website that the age for pilot had been increased from 23 to 25. As he had just turned 25, he decided to check with the RAF Careers Information Line (CIL) what the new age limit meant; as a result, he was told that the new limit required him to have commenced IOT before his 26th birthday. This gave him a year to re-apply for his dream job, which was just enough time. Although he knew that, theoretically, the entire selection process could take just 6 months, this was a best case scenario and did not leave any flexibility should there be any delays with medical issues or if the IOT dates did not fall right. Also, he noticed on the RAF Careers website how seriously fitness is taken; however, this did not worry him as he ran 5 miles, 3 times per week, and attended the gym a further 3 times. Nevertheless, he noted the Selection Fitness Test (SFT) standards and began work to ensure that he could easily pass this required element, knowing that the SFT was a pass/fail event.

He registered his interest with the CIL and waited for their reply. In the meantime, he continued with his general fitness preparation and increased the amount of research he was undertaking into the RAF, NATO, the UN, current affairs, air power, and the branch that he was applying for - so that he could shine during his interview. Appreciating the short time-line, John also decided to visit his local optometrist to have his eyes thoroughly tested to make sure he was not wasting his time. He decided that he would take his results with him to his officer presentation so that his AFCO could forward his results to OASC should he pass his officer filter interview.

In the next submission, John will complete the initial application process through to attending the OASC at RAF Cranwell.

For more information regarding any of these areas highlighted, please contact your AFCO and they will be able to give you more detailed information regarding specific cases.

Please note that, although OASC will endeavour to answer generic questions that arise, we will not be engaging or commenting on individual cases. In those cases, the individual is advised to contact their nearest AFCO who will be able to deal with any queries. All information published is for information only. Information regarding a career in the RAF can be found at http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers

RAF Pilot
 

D1tto

Let the bods at OASC determine if your eyesight is below standards or not. If going by the book, even those who turn up at the AFCO wearing glasses should not routinely be prevented for making an application for pilot. Bottom line - let OASC decide.

As you are aware, OASC are not looking for new recruits.

I was hoping to join as a WSOp. This may not be a possibility until perhaps far into next year.

I am looking at my other options at the moment, one of them is joining as an Engineer and then transferring A.S.A.P. No doubt it is easier to type than do, but could somebody help me, or fill me in on the details of how it can be done.

Would be forever in their debt.

Kind regards,
Jaymie Clifford.

Why don't you apply for the Navy as an Observer?

Thanks, I will look into that.

Still would greatly appriciate details on transfering.

Jaymie.

Transferring trades?

Complicated, long-winded, not guaranteed. Very risky gamble to take. What if it took 3,4 or 5 years? Could you handle being in a trade you, quite obviously, didn't want to be in for that long?

It has been done, of course, but that doesn't mean it will continue to be done. And you'd still have to go through the application procedure - OASC - and risk failure. What then?

If WSOp is what you want, stick with it. Use the extra time to get yourself better prepared.

You stand a lot more chance of joining the RN as an Observer and transferring to the RAF than you do of transferring within the RAF. Plus the uniforms of the RN are smarter, and you won't get confused for an RAC patrolman :ok:

Thanks for the advice.

So my best bet is either to wait, or join RN or Army? Is the latter; How soon can I leave/transfer? Or does it depend on the job?

Thanks again.

Transfering trades
 

I've heard today from a mate of mine that he was the only person out of 16 to pass his AIB a couple of months ago, and another acquaintance of mine from my Culdrose POAC course had everyone on his board fail as well. The former is off to Dartmouth (Warfare Occifer) in a couple of weeks, the intake consisting of only 60-70 cadets, rather than the usual 100+.

It seems that either nobody has been of the required standard of late, or that the RN are seriously cutting back on officer entry at the moment.

If the RN were cutting down on the amount of officers they require, why would they still put those applicants through the board? Surely it would cost money that could be spent elsewhere?

Not unusual to fail the lot, or pass the lot. Look at a standard distribution bell-curve and you'll see why. I think my board had a slightly less than 50% pass rate.

The RN operate a pool system for those who pass the AIB, and you can stay in the pool for twelve months. Each BRNC intake is drawn from those in the top of each pool by specialisation, so you can be in the pool but not go further. To re-join it you have to re-do AIB.

It's certainly cheaper to have an excess in the pool than it is to have spare places at BRNC, particularly as the number get smaller, as the fixed costs of running BRNC haven't shrunk with the reduced intakes.

Got an email today from the RAF, they are recruiting WSOp for a limited time :D:D

I have never been so happy in my life. I have direction again!

Best of luck with it!

FAT's
 

A few questions about FATs relating to the application process. I passed my FAT's in April 2008 but failed to meet the AIB standard for entry into the FAA. I have recently re-applied and have some questions about a second attempt:

1. would I have to retake my FATs as part as the application process?

2. Could I retake my FATs to improve my score?

3. If I was to fail my FATs on a second attempt, or achieve a lower score than the previous attempt, would it be possible to revert back to the original score achieved in attempt 1?

4.would this second attempt be classed as my second and final attempt at FATs forever?

Was just looking for a heads up before meeting my liaisons officer.

Cheers

Andy

OASC Bulletin 9
 

Last week we introduced our fictitious character who was re-applying to the RAF for pilot after being unsuccessful 2 years previous. This week we will take him through the process to get to the OASC.

After registering his interest with the CIL, John received an email with a link to the online registration process. He read through all of the instructions carefully and duly completed all of the required areas and submitted his application. Within a week, he received another email which contained information regarding the next steps and a number of forms including a formal RAF application, a medical declaration form and a Rehabilitation of Offenders declaration form. He was also advised of his nearest AFCO. John printed off all of the forms and carefully filled them in taking care to use correct grammar, punctuation and spelling. When he filled in his Rehabilitation of Offenders form, he recalled having smoked cannabis (Class B drug) once during his time as a student at university. As integrity is a key quality of anybody wishing to join the RAF, he wrote down the occurrence knowing that if he didn’t, he would probably be found out anyway, which would end any chances of him being successful. In the meantime he was contacted by his nearest AFCO inviting him to attend a RAF Officer (P2) presentation the following week.

John attended the presentation taking with him all his completed paperwork, his original education certificates, a proof of identification and his eye test results (from his voluntary eye test undertaken in the previous submission). The presentation gave a brief overview of the process that lay ahead, after-which he was asked whether he was still interested in continuing with his application for pilot. John stated that he was still interested and completed an application supplementary information form. His day was concluded by being booked into an RAF Officer (P2) filter interview for the following week. Now very motivated, John continued working on his fitness as well as his military and branch knowledge preparation so that he could deliver his best performance during the filter interview.

On the day of the interview, John checked over his application one last time, paid particular attention to his deportment and made sure that he had all the required paperwork. He got to the AFCO in good time, introduced himself and waited for the interviewer to collect him. The interview, which lasted about 45 minutes, was split into 2 parts. The first part covered personal information like family circumstances, hobbies and interests, activities inside and outside of school, responsibilities and any employment. The second part included questions on why he wanted to join the RAF, what he had done to gain a further understanding of the branch, what he knew about the branch, knowledge of the Service and military awareness. He answered all questions thoroughly paying particular attention to speaking clearly and concisely. Although quite nervous initially, John was surprised how quickly the 45 minutes passed. Towards the end of the Interview, the Interviewer made a statement about the Armed Forces policy on drug abuse. ‘Drug or solvent misuse is not tolerated in the Armed Forces and can attract disciplinary action, including discharge from the Service. However, the Service acknowledges that applicants may have been involved with drugs in the past and do not routinely exclude them from selection because of that’. It was at this point that John’s previous unfortunate encounter with cannabis was raised and discussed. The Officer Commanding the AFCO felt that John performed very well and stated that he would forward his application onto the OASC for further consideration. Before he knew it, he was walking back home very excited.

A week later, John received a letter from the OASC inviting him to attend a selection procedure in 3 months time. The letter contained a medical form and some notes for guidance on attending the selection procedure. He filled in the medical form very carefully and put it in a safe place. He would take his medical form with him to the OASC later on in the year. John spent the following 3 months preparing for his selection board. He read and absorbed his notes for guidance, he maintained his fitness programme and he continued his research into his chosen branch, the RAF, NATO and current affairs. He also arranged through his AFCO to visit his local RAF base in order to gain a deeper understanding of his branch and the officer way of life.

In the next submission, we will follow John through the first part of the selection process.

For more information regarding any of these areas highlighted, please contact your AFCO and they will be able to give you more detailed information regarding specific cases.

Please note that, although OASC will endeavour to answer generic questions that arise, we will not be engaging or commenting on individual cases. In those cases, the individual is advised to contact their nearest AFCO who will be able to deal with any queries. All information published is for information only. Information regarding a career in the RAF can be found at http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers

Brilliantly helpful OASC. Some great things in there I didn't know.

Thank you.

ES,

To kill or not to kill, that is the question. There is rarely a simple answer but many variations and uncertainties. Also times change and collateral damage (killing civilians) is increasingly contentious. I shall give some examples:

In The Cruel Sea, Jack Hawkins was prosecuting a possible submarine. Asdic had a solid contact classified as a submarine but visually they could see a line of men in the water. To attack the submarine and kill the men or resuce the men and risk being sunk? Fiction but a dilema.

Or an interdiction target, a bridge deep in enemy territory. There may be people in or around the bridge. If you do not destroy the bridge the enemy might launch a devastating attack. Not fiction but what did the crew do? (Gulf War 1)

Or friendly troops in contact but civilians in close proximity to hostiles. Not to attack could endanger own troops. Again, not fiction, Ed Macy in Apache.

However you would not be the first to be either uncertain or actually opposed to HMGs policies. There was a recent courts martial where a member of HM Forces decided that he could not support the war in the Middle East.

There was an earlier case during the Suez campaign where a Canberra pilot was also in disagreement and retracted his undercarriage on take-off. At least that was the story at the time.

Any suggestion, at the interview stage, that would might harbour consciencious objections would probably lead to an instant objection unless you could create a very strong arguement.

Length of 'hold'?
 

Hi,

I wondered if anyone might be able to tell me what the average hold length is looking like for pilots post IOT and post EFT at the moment?

Many Thanks

It's been 2 weeks to 3 months for the guys that graduated in Feb. The guys graduating...oh today..will be 3 weeks to around 6 months. There seems to be a fair few EFT courses - the snow earlier on the year delayed some training.

Can't answer post EFT holds - I am not that far yet!

Nca Osac
 

I have a new question. I know everyone is saying WSOp isn't open but im going to ask anyway. The selection process at OASC is it the same process as for potential officers and pilots? Do the aptitude tests contain a lot of physics based questions and a "flying" test?

Thanks

No and No.