I love Adminers. Who else would sort out my travel claims and rate 1s to help supplement my sadly deficient income?

Before I get flashed at I`m only playing Devils Advocate here . .. . . .

Admin Guru , whoever he is (or isn`t) DOES have a point about the brevets . Having spent some time with the RCAF , every man and has dog has one , as well as a "flight suit" and as such , the "them and us" attitude is far less prevalent .
You can even get Admin Support Badges for a flying suit !!!

I can`t believe that everyone has ACTUALLY DONE WHAT THE GURU SAID IN HIS FIRST LINE !! The best way to humble him would have been to say nothing !!

Brevets for all ! Give us something to laugh about in Happy Hour wouldn`t it ?

How unsurprised, I encounter the usual "shut up bluntie", "paperclip counter" attitude from those "well educated" aircrew types. For your information and those who did not read the first post properly, yesterday was my 1st experience of PPRune, hence my registration date.

I know I am not god-like aircrew, but I did not see the disclaimer banning anyone with related topics that arent pilots.

Bearing that in mind I have more to say. The attitude held by yourselves that we in handbrake house only drink coffee is as ill-informed as it is derogatory. Who processes your incorrectly written F1771s and F295d`s (for the young ones!).
Who looks after every single piece of admin that gets your jet in the air and your families medical and dental sorted out. All this without any threats of leaving for Anderson Consulting that would give me a salary dwarfing any offered by the airlines for pilots! On that subject I actually do have a PPL! So I am aware of the demands of flying.

I would like to see some reasoned arguements from the two wing master race answering my original questions. On the 2 wing master race, I would like to ask UAS "pilots" to kindly keep their weekend, student opinions to themselves. The issue of a white stripe, growbag and an attitude does not give you aircrew bragging "rights". I have more hours in my civvy log book than you will get on the Tutor.

I look forward to hearing some decent answers from you all.

Admin Guru!

Imposter!

A real OC Admin would spell and punctuate correctly.

A real OC Amin would not be at home posting to PPrune at 1630 on a Thursday.

A real OC Admin would have diligently read all the posts in this thread, not simply pounced on the ones which nearly stooped to the level of your opening remarks.

A real OC Admin would have checked pages 6 and 7 of the TV ad thread and been proud of the team spirit on display.

A real OC Admin would not have the time or money to waste on a PPL, which, I can assure you, is no introduction to the pressures of flying.

A real OC Admin wouldn't shout at the next generation, whose comments are as welcome here as anyone else's nonsense.

A real OC Admin wouldn't feel so unloved and unworthy as to have to provoke aircrew into admitting that blunties have a vital role to play.

A real OC Admin would be aware that aircrew do not work only for a couple of hours twice a week as evidenced by the quantity of paperwork required to detach and deploy them to 'interesting' places for long periods.

A real OC Admin would be aware that his limited experience in a very sheltered military environment would not get him a good job in the city.

A real OC Admin would have learned by now that if there really is a ground / aircrew divide that this will not be healed by bitterness.

Areal OC Admin...

... oh sod this I'm bored now. I'm off to book a week in the Seychelles and order my next Lotus.

[ 17 January 2002: Message edited by: Fanta Drinking Jessie ]</p>

FDJ,

Are you an adminer ? <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[ 17 January 2002: Message edited by: KD ]</p>

Hey guys!
Thanks so much for this string! I was missing all this "us v them" backbiting. And it is still funny how pen-pushers can whinge on and on about bloody aircrew, when, as previously mentioned, I could do his job with my finger up me a*se, whereas he couldn't do ours as long as he has a hole up his.

I could say that you should have worked harder at school, upped your work rate fella etc .... but im not going to.

i am heartened by the fact you realise the error of your ways and still hold a candle for the position of 2 winged master, perhaps a perusal at the wannabes forum might be in order!

maybe this will answer some of your points: I believe I am presently the worst paid 4 engined jet captain in the uk. I receive flying pay for numerous reasons, including the fact that I am in possession of marketable skills that, as a PPL, you do not yet posses. although many are happy with their lot many peoples priorities change.

"aircrew are not the be all and end all of the RAF" oh really! and what would your branch incompetently support without us? Remember, without aircrew you would merely be a member of the Royal Force.

if you dont like the moaning dont listen and dont read.

come over to the dark side so you can whinge too, at least you may be able to run an imprest properly.

No, KD, I am of the 2-wing master-race. But you can't help feeling sorry for the poor ******s. It's sad enough that God didn't bless them with the skill or intellect to be aircrew without some complete imposter coming here and making them all look like bitter, narrow-minded to55ers.

[ 17 January 2002: Message edited by: Fanta Drinking Jessie ]</p>

Oh hurrahh,

Back to this again. Sir, if you are a "real OC Admin", what do you expect posting such thing on a pilot forum. If you really beleive taht we only do a couple hours of work a day then you are very, very out of touch.

I prefer to think that this is just some one on a wind up, an hey, thats cool cause we all like bashing other trades (its called banter, blunties often don't get it <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> )

Oh, and please don't have a go at UAS students and there postings, thats my job on my Sqn (Spacer, Flipper, are you out there?)

Anyway, I am sure the rest of you will continue bashing, and FDJ you are so right, Real OC Admin !!!!! <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Tonks

FDJ - quality response Sir!!

To be fair to "Admin Guru", we do have a serious problem with Admin retention in the RAF - they are leaving in droves, and it is only a question of time before overstretch of Tac Admin Wg becomes untenable. And then what will we do? No, far better to give them some form of Admin pay - perhaps performance related - and generate a brevet for them. In fact, has anyone got any good ideas other than a "winged pen"? Perhaps we could have a competition.

In short, bless "Admin Guru and his ilk, for they are what makes the world go round.

UVG
<img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Dearest Admin Guru,

I would like to offer you the reasoned arguments for which you ask...

We get paid more due to simple supply and demand pressures. I contest that MoD would not pay more than the minimum necessary to recruit and retain any branch; this is true for ac drivers, doctors, dentists and dog-handlers alike.

Creating extra brevets would be divisive. Better to reduce the number of different badges or brevets surely and employ the 'all of one company' approach to bridge the obvious divide.

I hope that this is a satisfactory reply, however I do suspect that you are merely spoiling for a battle of wits for which it appears you are ill-equipped. If so, please come and have a go if you think you're hard enough, but remember: to do the same damage, a blunt object needs more energy than a sharp one.

Love always,

FDJ

BEagle

Are you sure you did not mistype the size of your boots? Size 8 medium? I thought there was supposed to be a correlation between the size of one's foot and that of one's willy!

Ah the sweetness of power! As a Sqn Cdr at Waddo in the '60s you had virtually none. But just once I managed to pull rank to good effect. The word was out that the aircrew feeder was not opening in good time to get the "0800 slot" off with a decent breakfast inside them. At 0400 one morning a Co called in to say he was sick and wasn't going to make it, so I slunk off down to Ops and announced a "no-notice" crew check. Everything went off tickety-boo and according to SOPs until at the due time we went into the feeder for our fry-up. No cook. I phoned OC Catering Sqn at his home and told him to get his arse into ops pronto. He tried to remonstrate so I told him I was standing in for one of my Flying Officers so he could bloody well stand in for his Corporal. The only time I have had a meal cooked by a Sqn Ldr!

Typical Admin. Working 10 hour days yea right. Come back the days when we flew 8 hour missions. It ain't worth getting out of bed for less than 12 now. Having come back from some where hot and sandy, the blunties came up with an idea of having Ord Off/Ord Sgt. Now who was under employed to think that one up. not to mention work parties on our day off!!!

Ops Admin Admin Ops. MMMMMMMMM <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Brevets for all - GET FU&lt;KED IMHO.

Why should everyone have a brevet with different symbology, I think thats toss. What are the admin staff going to have? A single wing with an embroidered laptop? Or maybe a scroll to keep with the modern air farce.

Keep brevets for aircrew only and keep the healthy rivalry that is there between ground branch and aircrew. After all, admin struggles are the basis of most good aircrew moans after a visit to handbrake house.

I do like the idea of laughing at KD`s spot of the 'ADMIN SUPPORT' flying suit badge in the bar. What self respecting adminer would sport such a ridiculous creation? But it would be funny to see.

Live the dream admin guys! What was the failing - apptitude or medical?

Brevets for blunties?
Good idea.

To make it fair though, I suggest a brevet size corresponding to the amount of time spent in training. Obviously with the wings representing up to four years, the admin course of 10 weeks at Halton should be 1/20th size. I suggest a small pin badge with a handbrake in the middle.


<img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

OC Admin at a fast jet base...?

Why not visit a fast jet base and tw*t the respective OC Admin - really hard. Got about a 1 in 6 chance of getting the right one.

[ 17 January 2002: Message edited by: Reichman ]</p>

Admin Guru,

'I actually do have a PPL! So I am aware of the demands of flying'

I can drive Golf Gti so I would probably be able to hold my own with Michael Schumaker in F1!?!

OPERATING a complex and dynamic weapon system in an uncompromising environment is SLIGHTLY different from taking your mother up to see her house.

If you are serious old boy, I despair. I strongly suggest that you actually VISIT one of the FJ sqns on your base and see what is really happening. On my base we are very fortunate to have a great relationship with all of the supporting units. Nevertheless, and I say this without ANY fear of contradiction, there is no single branch that works harder, be it in absolute hours or intensity of task, than the pilots.

I will not even go into the consequences of error - you are not worthy of my absent friends.

Beam me up!

Well I for one would love to be on Admin Guru's station. So OC Admin would sort out were my loved ones could go to the dentist!! He is a wonderful admin man or "Bluff Card" you be the judge. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Gosh this must be the fastest growing thread ever!

Anyway Admin Chappie,

Your quote of:

'All this without any threats of leaving for Anderson Consulting that would give me a salary dwarfing any offered by the airlines for pilots!'

If you had any commercial knowledge, you would know that Andersen Consulting was split last year from Arthur Andersen (accounting) to become Accenture. So you obviously have a complete lack of simple commercial knowledge too! And there's no way they'd employ an MOD accountant!

Now go back to your tactical green biros.

Admin "Guru".
Congratualtions. You speak such clarity.
On the other hand...
You are clearly a fake, a charlatan, an imposter, a living breathing Walter Mitty who yearns self-important yet finite popularity amongst his equally short-sighted peers, brought about by the claim that he "got those aircrew guys a treat".

So I tip my hat to you, for today you are the wise guy.

Tomorrow we will all still be doing what we love - flying...and getting paid for it...and receiving the mix of admiration and envy of those who appreciate what we do, adminners included.
You on the other hand will be left to scavenge like a hungry dog for another equally shallow solution to your thirst for so-called fame.
If you were half as smart as you incorrectly perceive yourself to be, you'd notice that most people contribute to this forum in a chatty, conversational style, not the IOT-taught grammatically correct grammar-school form of English that you have researched and subsequently mimicked to try and add weight to your juvenile rantings.
Your comments are so transparent they simply defy a reasoned, well-balanced response.

Good initial joke mate, now go finish your homework, it's nearly bedtime.