New member to the pilot journey
 

Hey guys!

I cannot believe the wealth of information available in this forum!
Congratulations to all of the candidates who have been progressing through the process and to the ones whose hard work has paid off and have commenced OTC.

A bit of a background on me, I am 21 and applying as a DEO. This is after completing an accounting degree and spending over 12 months in a global firm and realising that my boyhood dream of being a military pilot is very much real and far more attainable than I once thought. My love for flying started at airshows as a young lad and progressed to simulators, remote controlled models and more recently some time in the cockpit.

I have completed my YOU session a few weeks ago and received some extremely positive feedback and have booked my additional testing for next week.

Looking forward to sharing some tips and insights into the process as I hopefully progress through each stage.

Good luck to all currently in the process or waiting for an offer!

FSP - Flying Newbie
 

Is anyone on FSP201746? I'd like to connect with some others before heading down.

Also, i'm sure these questions have been asked many times on this thread, so feel free to link a page with relevant info instead of replying.

Basically i'm headed down to FSP later this month and am not entirely sure of what to expect (beyond flying and OSB obviously). I have no flying experience.

Are there any resources/information I should be studying other than everything from assessment day? Should I try to familiarise myself with the CT4 and its instruments?

A rundown of FSP as well as any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers :)

Hey guys,

I've been selected (finally) to go on Flight Screening for the ADFA 18/11 - 01/12 session :p

I've been reading most of this enormous thread, up to the last 20 pages now!! Definitely a lot to learn here, so first of all, thank you to all the contributors and current applicants who are part of this nice little aviation community. :D

I'd also like to know if there's anyone else on this thread that's going to be joining me this month? If there are you probably have already posted but, as I said, I still have to finish the last few thousand words :8
Really hope that as many of us can get in as possible, and that we receive an offer for the start of ADFA this upcoming january!!!

Thanks again and I appreciate any further tips or questions you may want to extend!

Hey Guys, I've been invited to FSP 46 (17th-2nd of November). I tried making a post yesterday after finally making it through the bible's worth of information that is amassed here! Thanks to everyone that's been posting relevant info and has been willing to help, I appreciate it as someone who is trying to go in as prepared as possible.

First of all I'd like to say that if anyone here is in for that course too, and would like to get in contact, I'm more than happy to make a connection on fb or phone and get to know each other before we embark on this adventure! If there's one thing I've learnt reading this thread is that it's all about comradery and forming a smart collaborative cohort and shine as a group as well as individually.

On another note if anyone who has already been through this process would like to extend me any additional advice or any questions, feel free to do so. :)

Next intake a big one?
 

Hey guys,

I went on FSP in march this year and placed in the top 25 percent of candidates.

2 guys from my FSP got in, one Navy one RAAF.

Does anybody have any intel on what the situation is with intakes at the moment? I hear feb will be a large intake so perhaps that is my best shot.

Can anyone share some light on the current intake process for all 3 services?

This is what I’ve been told but don’t necessarily take it as fact.
For army: not recruiting currently
Navy: Unsure of current situation
RAAF: there are 4 ots intakes coming up. Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr.
number of pilot candidates being selected for each intake respecably to each month: 20,13,13,8.

How big is the pool?
 

OK, well that sounds promising.

So if I got a high recommendation in March (top 25 percent) would my chances still be good?

My preferences are all 5.

I remember doing some maths based on how many fsp slots there are and how many people get recommended and the pool size ended up being around 90 to 100 or so.

I received the same level of recommendation as you in August and at that time there were only about 50 people in the pool. I’m unsure as to how big it is now but I’d say the odds are decent. We’ll hopefully have an answer in the coming couple of weeks.

How did you know there were only 50 people in the pool?

based on 24 screened a month, then 12 getting recommended, that would mean there would be around 80 in the pool by December and that is not factoring in drop outs, sick people and in service transfers (separate pool apparently)

Great odds then...

Sorry to wake the dead thread everyone. I just finished my YOU Session (baby-steps) and was wondering if anyone could be so kind as to info-bomb me on the additional testing day and assessment day. OSB info wouldn't hurt either. Cheers.

Hey mate,

just do a search on the rest of this thread and you will find what you need. You can find lots of stuff online as well just by googling.


Another mate has said that next year FSP is getting ditched for something called the aviation selection program.

I cant find anything on this I am not sure if I will have to sit the Aviation selection program even though I have a high rec on flight screening in March.

Can anyone confirm when next offers are coming out for Jan/Feb and if they will be done in the same batch?

Sab when was this?

A few people have said they are on december FSP?

Did they tell you when the offers will be distributed?

Can you elaborate on ASP?

OK, well that seems fine.

But isnt that ADFA FSP? I am applying for DEO.

It's good for us that the last flight screening got cancelled. It means that there will be even less people in the pool.

@mled said that there were 50 people in the pool as of August but i have no idea how he/she would know that. Did anyone say anything about the number of people in the pool when you were on flight screening or Intake numbers??

The waiting is killing me...

Hey Harry,

I did FSP last month and was told pretty much the same things as sab2304 said. Nov/Dec FSP courses will be the last, and then it will all close up before restarting in March 2018 as ASP in East Sale. ASP will apparently involve one day of info sessions on various aviation careers and one day of simulator based testing. Then based on how well you go, you'll be invited back for an OSB on another day for a particular job.

Apparently, those who were recommended at FSP in 2017 will remain in the pool for one year as normal and then if you still haven't got an offer, you can do ASP. So 2017 FSPers are lucky in that they probably won't have to wait 3 years for a second chance!

I have heard that there will be intakes in Feb, March and April. Given that ASP only starts up in March, I'd say all those spots will come from those who did FSP in 2017. So, again, that is good for 2017 FSPers! I've heard that offers should start coming out in early December, but have no idea if all intakes will hear at the same time.

I know that the wait is hard, but hopefully we'll all know soon!

Hey mate, I had my FSP in June and got the same recommendation. I have been sent a letter talking about an attestation medical that I am to complete to be medically suitable. From what i've research this is the medical done on day of enlistment. Just wondering if you have received any kind of letter like this in the past week or so?
Also a guy I met at FSP got a call from the navy officer saying that they are sending his dossier off to nowra. So hopefully this is good signs for us! and if less people in the pool hopefully a Jan offer!!

Executive Summary
 

Ok,

Let's summarise.


1. Pool size The pool size for people awaiting FSP was 50 as of August, we have no clue what the distribution pool size or can anyone assist. We do know it will be smaller than last year because of a few cancelled flight screening spots (not sure if different for ADFA or not?)

2. FSP is moving to ASP as of March. 2017 FSP candidates that received a recommendation will have to do ASP if they have not received an offer yet...

QUESTIONS
1. Will there be offers distributed from the current pool of candidates that completed FSP 2017 with a recommendation? If so, when?
2.how did @MLED know the numbers for the intakes as per the last post?
3. A mate who just finished OTS said that "he heard" OTS was full until June??? (doubt this)
4. Why would offers not be distributed until people sit ASP.surely they will send offers for jan, feb, march 2018 before the end of the year seems to be the concensus.
Also, what does DP-AF mean, that is where my application is at the moment for a february intake....

I think the consensus was that anyone who got an offer after a recommendation at FSP would be placed on an OTS course such that they ended up on the last however many BFTS courses at Tamworth next year.

Anyone getting an offer after the new ASP will be doing their BFTS in Sale on the PC-21 and what they assess on the ASP is supposed to reflect those changes to the training system. It seems unlikely that they would be waiting for the ASP to be up and running before sending out offers. Unless of course that's in the context of offers for DEO this year having already gone out. So it would make sense that no new offers would go out till people have actually completed the ASP.

That being said, patience is probably key here until more reliable sources of information pop up (which I am not :}).

All my information came from the mouth of an enlistment coordinator for one of the guys that I went to FSP with. According to them, they were told that offers for the next rounds of OTS should be coming out before the start of December.

Sat my assessment day on the 27th of november. Funny that I am resitting my medical on the 27th.

I think another assessment day would not be too much of an issue.

I recall smashing my assessment day.

I just hope they dont make me resit additional testing although a mate of mine didnt have to resit it before he got in.

Sorry correction.

I sat my assessment day in August 2016.

My enlistment coordinator emailed me asking for me to come in for a medical only, on the 27th of November this year. Her email said this is so I am "good to go should I receive an offer". I think the medicals expire but not the interview.

Also, emailed FSP and they said "DF-AF are finalising their final selection for DEO pilot, and we should have some indication by early December" (word for word the email)

If the file is at DP-AF is that a good sign?

I take it nobody has heard anything yet?

Zilch mate.

I had a chat with my enlistment coordinator. No offers, to her knowledge and she assures me she would know, have been made this side of July.

I have medicals to refresh but other than that its the waiting game. @MLED how did you know about the intake numbers btw?

I keep getting told different things regarding intake size, BFTS is backcoursed, an official document addressing the pilot shortage in the RAAF said intakes will go up to 165 per yeah.

Who knows....???

That’s the same as my enlistment coordinator has said too.

That’s what I was told by two of the guys that I went to FSP with and they were told by their enlistment coordinators. I’m with you though that there is tons of contradicting information.

To give a bit of clarity

BFTS is closing up shop. The instructors are moving to Sale to convert to the PC21 and thus the courses are being stripped away from BFTS in 2018. The first Army BFTS course next year is in September, until then it is RAAF/RAN courses mainly consisting of ADFA with a few DEO courses.

HATS is opening at Nowra - the same "train the trainer" issue has seen a limited pipeline for Army pilots to go through and this has reduced the intakes.

So what: If you are in the pool it is facetious to think that the lack of candidates going into the pool means you've got an amazing chance - the courses are thinning out next year as BFTS reduces capacity.

To answer a few questions - the course intakes are panelled months in advance. It is fairly common for Army to be recruiting 6-12 months out, and everyone that went to RAAF from my intake got offers on 3-9 months notice. This gives rise to the "OTS is full" idea.

DEO Army - This links in with the "enormous pilot intake" fallacy. Army is currently having issues with the restructuring of its training pipeline. There is a skill shortfall at the QFI level meaning there is a backlog of pilots awaiting conversion. The recent RMC grad had approx 10 pilots. The next class coming through now only has 3 pilots. The so what is that Army is restructuring the training timeline and therefore there is less intake. Eventually all RMC cadets will have the option to test for Pilot as opposed to entering the College on a cadetship.

Medicals - attestation medical is completed on the day of appointment and is relatively cursory to check for any final changes. Your actual medical only lasts 12 months much like it is in service.

I am about to go on Chrissy leave so if anyone has any questions post here and I'll do my best to answer them.

Best,
flyingsoon

Rules of ASP
 

FlyingSoon, or anyone else for that matter, would you have any idea about the rules of the new ASP regarding waiting time between failed attempts and number of possible attempts?

At BFTS you could only attempt the flying component of the program twice in your life, and you had to wait 3 years between each attempt. If you were not recommended based on your OSB or other personal factors, they would usually give you 12 months between attempts, or another amount of time up to their discretion.

Trying to decide when to go for ASP, as I was not recommended in Feb 2017 due to my flying scores as well as my 'age and life experience'.

In your specific case I would hold off until you can demonstrate you meet their other criteria first. Unfortunately being in service now I am well removed from the ASP side of things and speculation won't help.

@flyingsoon

What are your thoughts for Raaf intake?

I was told by my enlistment coordinator that intake spots have not neen filled. This was then confirmed by flight screening that DP-AF had not finalised the ots intake.

When we speak of intakes i am referring to getting a letter of offer from RAAF/RAN.

Its hard because we keep hearing conflicting things.

I would imagine that seeing as the pilot intake on 2019 will be around 165 that 2018 would be generous to RAAF as they say in official documents they need more pilots.

Ideally, i hope they send offers for OTS soon and then we can just wait for the new OTS.

My mate got an offer for July in June. 4-6 weeks is what i heard in terms of notice period.

I'd go off that. The only problem is courses are being thinned out next year as staff move down to Sale and get QFI on the PC21 which is why courses are being thinned next year.

This is part of the game, and it is going to be a frequent feature of your career, especially whilst in a training environment

As above, I would not be too hopeful for a large intake next year given the movement to Sale. Once this has completed I imagine it would pick back up. Keep in mind the new screening is going to qualify a larger amount of pers for the job so it will only become more competitive.

Courses are usually booked a while in advance but numbers change which is where you get the late notices from. Notice varies. The best thing to do is keep regular contact with your EC and ensure you ask specific questions about the next course dates, if they have been panelled yet and if the offers are out.

The new Aviation Officer career plan consists of only GSO pilots. The idea is that no one will be able to test before entering RMC. Testing will be conducted approx six months in and open to anyone at RMC who meets the specialist medical requirements. The exact implementation of this is still unknown. Last I heard ADFA were still filling cadetship due to the further extension of their training pipeline. There is still two years of ADFA av cadets yet to come through the college. I have no idea what the recruiting picture looks like at this stage.

There are still a number of pilots in the pipeline both on conversion and awaiting either basic or rotary qualification. I would not bank on the amount of pilots Army will need at any given time especially in this timeframe. At the moment we have the ARH issues & mid life, MRHs soon to start to go to 6AVN, EC at HATS and the Chook acquisition. It's simply too hard to pick.

It takes longer for Army to acquire aircraft at the moment than to train pilots so I wouldn't concern yourself about a war scenario :)

Hans, I wouldn't put all your eggs in one basket. If I learnt anything in my time dealing with DFR, it was that anything can happen at anytime and if you want to be a pilot it pays to have all options open.

No, we are not moving MRH from TVL, we are moving 6AVN off Blackhawk over the next few years. It's a change that is being resisted so wait out on how long that takes.

I'd imagine the lower intakes at the moment would lower the backlog but as above there are still two years of ADFA cadets coming over on cadetship. I'd wager it would be smoothed out by that point yes. The Army has not quite turned the tap off.

I couldn't say with any degree of certainty. I think they won't recruit direct entry, if they have spots they'll fill by testing pers in II Class at RMC

But what about RAAF?!

Surley they have intakes?

My nephew has been aiming for a RAAF pilot career for many years. I spent many years as a RAAF pilot and I’m now flying with Qantas. Following in my footsteps it seems.

He was given a top 25% recommendation from flight screening earlier on this year. His HSC results came out on Friday and, as expected, he got a very good result.

What he wasn’t expecting was a phone call on Friday afternoon from the Navy offering him a pilot position for next years ADFA intake. It was a “take it or leave it” offer. Giving him till 1500 Friday to give his answer. He’s never shown any interest in the Navy and is not really interested.

He was told that all the RAAF courses were full and that if he didn’t take the Navy offer he’d miss out in ADFA next year.

My many years in the RAAF have given me a healthy scepticism of recruitment so this just doesn’t ring true to me. I’d suggest all services would have been waiting for the HSC results to be released before offers could be finalised. It just sounds like the Navy trying to secure strong candidates before the RAAF makes an offer.

Anyone care to offer an insight into the process or to enlighten me what’s at play here?

Raaf intakes
 

@isdon

I was told my EC that the 2018 courses for pilot had not been panelled yet and fsp told me that my file was with DP-AF being considered a february intake.

This is for DEO and adfa may be different. There is so much conflicting messaging its not funny.

Thanks Harry.

Lack of information seems to be a recurring theme. How can anyone make a judgement call on the next 15 years of their lives without all of the facts.

So i just spoke with my EC.

Raaf intakes have gone out and I missed it. 12 were gone out for Jan.

Navy can still come out in January for a FEB intakes but there will be limited spots.

At this time its either Navy or sitting ASP in march/april.

The Navy intake is 25th January so I'd be hoping offers will be out this week rather than waiting until the new year

ASP. Sorry for my ignorance but is that the new simulator assessment system that’s coming in?

I know there’s a new way but what are they going to do with everyone who’s missed out on the small number of RAAF ADFA Pilot slots available for males? Do they just go to a hold file for direct entry courses or is their whole application binned and they have to start again? Seems like a huge waste of time and money to reassess people that have already been deemed suitable.

Smells a bit suss to me too, IsDon.
Problem is, not really an easy way to find out, which is a bugger.
Got any (now) 1 or 2 star mates still in??

Yes I do actually, and I spent yesterday on the phone to various contacts.

What I can say is that the general comments here are correct.

Apparently all of the RAAF ADFA Pilot positions have been selected and my nephew wasn’t one of them. I was surprised to be told there was only 10, yes 10, RAAF ADFA Pilot positions open for males. I don’t know how big the intakes are now, in my day there we’re around 30. So 20 females, 10 males. Should make TOGA parties fun for the 10 but I despair for the future of RAAF aviation if political appointments under a social agenda trump aptitude.

I certainly wouldn’t want to be a QFI at 2FTS. Stand by for much hand wringing and naval gazing when the traditional 50% pass rate plummets to 30%. Unless politics comes into play and the standards hurdle is lowered to avoid embarrassment. From mates still instructing scrubbing a girl takes almost an act of Parliament.

As for my nephew, he’s decided to use the Navy offer as a potential back door into the RAAF. To reject the Navy offer would require him to go through the complete ASP selection process from the start. All previous aptitude testing is thrown out in favour of the new system. With any new system it may take a year or two to get right so there’s a very real possibility that he may not go as well with the new system. Service transfers are quite common these days and if he does well on pilots course there’s the very real prospect of putting on a blue uniform and going straight to fighters. Seems as if the competition won’t be as high as it should be. He may even like the Navy and elect to stay. Flying an embarked helicopter would be a hoot. My previous life included RAAF Iroquois and P3Cs among the seven RAAF types I flew. Combining the fascinating world of maritime flying with a helicopter would be very rewarding flying.

Good luck to all of those still in the pipeline. Thanks for all of your assistance and support.